Where are all the Brits ?

[trickydicky]

We have just had a month poodling along the Mosel in Germany.in all that time we have only come across two couples from the uk ! It is such a beautiful area,and the stellplatz are absolutely brilliant ( and so cheap). We can't believe there are not more Brits venturing here.oh, and the grocery shopping is so much cheaper than home. We are so impressed and will definitely be returning.

[spospe]

Often done the Mosel from Pont a Mousson in France (where all the manhole covers come from) to Koblenz (last three time we have been there, the chaos caused by the road works for the improved flood defences have made us vow never to go again!)

 

Especially nice are Zell, which has the only free wi-fi café we have found on the Mosel in Germany and Neef which has nothing at all, apart from some nice, well signed walks and lots of peace and quiet.

[Cliffy]

We returned from 6 weeks away earlier this month.The last three weeks from Austria through Slovenia, Croatia and back through Italy, Austria, Germany and France we did not meet or see any Brits. We put it down to being too near high season and they had all gone home because they did not want to risk having to pay high season prices or were concerned it was too busy or too hot. I reality none of these conditions being the case.

[rupert123]

You never really see to many Brits in Europe. The reason is simple, there are not to many over their at any one time and they are spread out. As for the Mosel it is pleasant enough between Trier and Koblenz but how do you spend a month there? We have past through twice and a few Brits around both times but who cares, we have done the route of the high alps twice also and only seen one other Brit van on this. It becomes easy to think you are the only ones around but British motorhomes are still pretty rare compared to other nationalities, the UK is still caravan country.

[Tracker]

There are two main types of tourist, as with most nations and I doubt we are that much different overall to any other nationality.

 

The two types of Brit that we have encountered are -

 

1] Chat to anyone and everyone, swap info on places been and to see, have a laugh - often at the expense of other nationalities (racist?) and be generally friendly. Not quite so many of them as there used to be methinks?

 

2] Take the view that if we were at home they would not bother, or even cross the car park to speak, so why should they treat a total stranger as a long lost friend abroad? And there are plenty of them around!

 

Other nationalities also have that differentiation but added into the mix, less so with German and Dutch tourists, is a lack of a common language as it is well known that the Brits only speak English in most case and the French won't speak English if they can avoid it, whereas most Northern European folk seem to have a good basic English.

 

I also believe that the impact of electronic communication is being allowed to reduce inter personal communication skills at an alarming rate and is only adding to increasing levels of shyness and lack of confidence in one's ability to be understood.

[PJay]

Have to agree with Rich, lack of "common" communication. They have a common currency in EU (except us), so maybe the next dictate will be we all have to speak the same!!

What one would you vote for?? would this be the order?

German 1

French 2

Dutch 3

 

 

English 10

 

Lets hope we get out before that happens.

PJay

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2014-07-29 11:40 AM

 

 

Other nationalities also have that differentiation but added into the mix, less so with German and Dutch tourists, is a lack of a common language as it is well known that the Brits only speak English in most case and the French won't speak English if they can avoid it, whereas most Northern European folk seem to have a good basic English.

 

.

We do not need to speak other language's as English has long been the universal one, although I guess it is only polite to learn some basics. The French not speaking English is a pretty old fashioned view, indeed they teach English in their schools as the first foreign language and have done since the 1980,s. They seem pretty keen to try it, especially the younger generation, every where you go the English spoken has enormously increased over the last ten years, although what this has to do with not seeing many Brits around I am not sure.

[Tracker]

Sorry Henry but must disagree.

In our experience very few French people are keen to risk their English, particularly other motorhomers.

I'll go further - on a number of occasions we have found French people obstructive an reluctant to use even what little English they have even when it is clear that we are trying to grapple with our limited French as they seem to take the view - 'en France on parlais Francais'.

Rarely find that in Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, or Scandinavia

Or maybe your French is better than mine and good enough to give confidence to the other party?

[George Collings]

Its pot luck who you meet but I thought the Brits were a little thicker on the ground when we were in Provence and then the Auverne in May.

 

There was a time when hearing the French speak English was very rare but its getting more common. I have never studied any language ( English included) but have picked up a few words of French and find that just a few words is all its takes to start a conversation of sorts. On one occassion two Frenchmen and myself were trying to sort a problem in one of their vans. A butcher, a lift engineer and myself but we managed with the help of some wine to learn a bit about ourselves and fix the fridge before staggering back to our vans. Magic memories.

 

Other contacts have started by making complimentary comments about a dog.

 

My efforts at French ofen make Val cringe as she studied it for some years but lacks confidence to enjoy conversation.

[Guest Had Enough]

There has been a huge increase in the number of French people who speak English. There is no better proof of this than the fact that London is now France's sixth biggest city. 400,000 French men and women now work in London, making its French population greater than Bordeaux, Nantes or Strasbourg.

 

On the whole they are well educated and ambitious young people who feel strangled by France's failing Socialist economy and a bureaucracy that stifles entrepreneurship. Do we really believe that they'd cross the channel to work in the U.K if they couldn't speak English?

 

Foreign language teaching starts at about eleven years of age and 92% opt for English with German at only 7.5% the second choice. Any French person who's studied as far as the baccalaureate has had at least seven years of language classes. This coupled with a dominance of English in computing, TV programmes, films and popular music etc. has made listening to English an everyday occurrence for many French.

 

I've been visiting France regularly for forty years and have noticed an huge difference in shops and other service institutions in that English is spoken much more frequently.

 

However, it's very much age defined in that this emphasis on learning a second language was not in place when the kind of people that we meet on camp sites and aires went to school.

 

Consequently, if we base our opinion of the linguistic abilities of the French on the motorhomers that we meet we could easily conclude that nothing has changed, but it wouldn't be true. We all know that motorhomers are generally of the older generation. But try talking to younger people, such as camp site receptionists and young professionals, doctors, vets and pharmacists etc. and you'll find a different story.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

There is also another reason. France is a large, hugely varied, generally very attractive, country, that many French people never leave. As Frank says, many of the older generation didn't learn a language at school, or if they did, they have had no reason to use it since. Many can understand a little English, but can't remember the words to reply in English. So, they become tongue-tied, awkward, and embarrased by their inability. This may give the impression of reluctance or hostility - I guess few of us are at our best when socially embarrased.

 

But, above all, it is surely somewhat arrogant to expect the natives of other countries to speak English, just because we happen to be visiting. I think that accidental arrogance sometimes comes over more than we imagine. The Dutch and the Germans can get away with it, because they aren't British, so are forgiven for merely having had the misfortune to learn the "wrong" language! :-) We, on the other hand, offer no concession, and it can be resented. Even learning to apologise for one's lack of French in French, would help to thaw first impressions.

 

When it comes to manners, there are small, but significant, differences between us Brits and the French. For example, on entering a shop (or campsite office, or w.h.y.) in France it is considered polite to greet whoever is there: the "bonjour" one so often hears. OTOH, we tend to stand in silence until greeted by the shopkeeper. To the French, this behaviour appears rude and stand-offish, and they are inclined to ignore the silent stranger. No good saying they are wrong, it is their country, and it is their rules of etiquette that apply.

 

Another unintended insult is in the handling of change when making a purchase, though this is less prevalent now than even 20 years back. It is impolite for either party to put their hand out for the money. Doing this is seen as being distrustful, and is a slight. There is usually a glass dish on the counter, and that is where the money goes. It is a kind of polite neutral territory which doesn't impugn the honour of either party. Older shopkeepers in more remote areas, especially if they don't speak English, are liable to react very badly to that innocently extended palm! Once when I forgot, the change was bashed into the dish so hard I thought she'd break the counter! As ever between nations, it's the little things that count.

 

Bonsoir. :-D

[Tracker]

Thanks Brian - I was unaware of these French customs as I suspect were most of us on here?

[robertandjean]

Thanks Frank and Brian for two informative and interesting replies. We find that provided you make an attempt to converse in French, no matter if limited and grammatically flawed most French vanners we meet on Aires respond well. Yes as Frank points out many of the older generation do speak only limited English, but that has not stopped us having some very pleasant evenings chatting in "Franglaise" whilst enjoying a glass or two of the local red. Not sure why more Brits do not attempt to socialise with local fellow vanners. Maybe it's easier on Aires than sites as you are parked closer together! Sorry Frank could not resist a plug for Aires!!!!

[Barney123]

Just got back from spending 2 weeks chilling out down the Moselle, we also only saw 2 other brit vans, but who cares, the locals and the other nationalities are more friendly.

Re the comment about wifi at Zell, you can pick up free wifi from the camp site whilst on the stellplatz along the river bank, plus I have seen people with lap-tops in the square outside the Tourist Office keying away to their hearts content.

 

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2014-07-29 1:58 PM

 

Sorry Henry but must disagree.

In our experience very few French people are keen to risk their English, particularly other motorhomers.

I'll go further - on a number of occasions we have found French people obstructive an reluctant to use even what little English they have even when it is clear that we are trying to grapple with our limited French as they seem to take the view - 'en France on parlais Francais'.

Rarely find that in Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, or Scandinavia

Or maybe your French is better than mine and good enough to give confidence to the other party?

Disagree all you like Rich but it is true, my French is not bad but fail to see that makes any difference. You may get this impression because, as has been pointed out, you are mixing with the older generation. I mix with a lot of people much younger than I am during my skiing trips. It is rare these days for example to visit a camp site where English is not spoken, bear in mind that a lot of Dutch speak German as their second language so they also tend to use English in France, it is not just the English who do not speak French.

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2014-07-29 5:15 PM

 

Thanks Brian - I was unaware of these French customs as I suspect were most of us on here?

You must be joking Rich, anyone who has travelled much in France must be aware of this, you must travel around with both eyes and ears firmly closed. (lol)

[Tracker]

Oh come on Henry, whilst the common courtesy of saying Bonjour and smiling serves the twofold purpose of being courteous and of letting the other person know that we are English with limited French abilities, I don't think any casual visitor to France would necessarily know about the change giving custom.

 

Perhaps you knew all along and it would have been nice had you informed us mere mortals of your superior knowledge before Brian did (lol)

[Tracker]

rupert123 - 2014-07-29 10:16 PM

It is rare these days for example to visit a camp site where English is not spoken, bear in mind that a lot of Dutch speak German as their second language so they also tend to use English in France, it is not just the English who do not speak French.

 

Ah that explains it then - we don't use camp sites often enough (lol)

[Guest Had Enough]

robertandjean - 2014-07-29 8:19 PM

 

Thanks Frank and Brian for two informative and interesting replies. We find that provided you make an attempt to converse in French, no matter if limited and grammatically flawed most French vanners we meet on Aires respond well. Yes as Frank points out many of the older generation do speak only limited English, but that has not stopped us having some very pleasant evenings chatting in "Franglaise" whilst enjoying a glass or two of the local red. Not sure why more Brits do not attempt to socialise with local fellow vanners. Maybe it's easier on Aires than sites as you are parked closer together! Sorry Frank could not resist a plug for Aires!!!!

 

Do you use aires? I hadn't realised. ;-)

[George Collings]

This is my version of why by and large Brits find languages shall we say daunting. In prehistoric times waves of central europen migrants headed westward until they found some land to settle. As fresh groups speaking different languages arrived those of the earler wave who found learning the new tongue dificult moved west again. This happened many times until those least able to learn found their feet were getting wet so they built boats and sailed off until they found what came to be known as the British Isles. its all down to genetics . We cannot help our DNA.

 

It raises a smile when told to any of our European cousins who have had the courtesy to learn English.

[goldi]

George Collings - 2014-07-30 8:41 AM

 

This is my version of why by and large Brits find languages shall we say daunting. In prehistoric times waves of central europen migrants headed westward until they found some land to settle. As fresh groups speaking different languages arrived those of the earler wave who found learning the new tongue dificult moved west again. This happened many times until those least able to learn found their feet were getting wet so they built boats and sailed off until they found what came to be known as the British Isles. its all down to genetics . We cannot help our DNA.

 

It raises a smile when told to any of our European cousins who have had the courtesy to learn English.

 

morning folks

 

 

So that explains the Welsh, I see now.

 

 

 

norm

[derek pringle]

trickydicky - 2014-07-28 8:52 PM

 

We have just had a month poodling along the Mosel in Germany.in all that time we have only come across two couples from the uk ! It is such a beautiful area,and the stellplatz are absolutely brilliant ( and so cheap). We can't believe there are not more Brits venturing here.oh, and the grocery shopping is so much cheaper than home. We are so impressed and will definitely be returning.

hi,

things must be changing, we have been to the Mosel a few times and have always seen Brits there. Maybe a different/better destination has been found although I find that hard to believe as whenever we look at it we are gobsmacked by its beauty

cheers

derek

[docted]

They are all at home watching the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow

[trickydicky]

When I said there didn't seem to be any Brits along the Mosel,that was just an observation.......we are more than happy not to be in any Brits company whilst away. We get on very well with all the " foreigners " we happen to come across, most are friendly and always say hello, not like the Brits.....most of them are totally miserable and standoffish, just like at home !

[antony1969]

After the dire performance of the England team at the World Cup and the no show of any other British teams maybe folk are a little embarrassed to venture to a powerful footballing nation like Germany ... And anyway as stated who wants to see a load of miserable up themselves Brits while away who can't even pass time of day to others in this country

Brit free holidays every time .... The Germans and French a lot more pleasant than our lot