Scooter on back of panel van

[whatsupdoc]

I need some help, please!

 

We currently carry our scooter in the garage (Chausson Flash 04) but are looking to change to a panel van and carry the scooter on the back … if possible.

 

Of course with an existing van it's just a matter of visiting a weighbridge fully loaded and, knowing the weight of the scooter, weight and dimensions of the carrier, doing the calculation and checking against the max. rear axle weight on the plate.

 

However we are contemplating buying a new van, but I'm finding axle weight information hard to come by. Knowing the MRO axle weights would be a start, but even then it would be tricky figuring out the weight distribution of our stuff.

 

Has anyone else had this problem – i.e. trying to figure out in advance of buying a van whether or not it would be possible to carry a scooter on the back?

 

Any help would be gratefully received – especially from anyone who carries/has carried a scooter on the back of a panel van. I would like to avoid using a trailer if possible ...

 

[Mike88]

I've tried to carry a scooter on my panel van. I've been in contact with towbar manufacturers and written to Swift all to no avail. I have also corresponded with Witter who advised me emphatically that a panel van is unsuitable for carrying a heavy load on one of their bars as they manufacture strictly to the base vehicle's limits.The main problem was complying with the base vehicle manufacturers vertical load limit 100 kgs.

 

The Maximum Permissible Rear Axle loading on my 3 litre Fiat X250 is 2000kg, Maximum Front Axle loading is 1850kg and the GVW (MTPLM) is 3500kg. The front axle load in all conditions must be between 40% and 70% of the total weight to ensure adequate road holding and the GVW must not be exceeded.

 

Weights are:

 

Empty - Front Axle 1505kg, Rear Axle 1167kg, Total 2672kg.

 

MRO (90% Fuel, Water and Gas + driver) - Front 1667kg, Rear 1269kg, Total 2935kg.

 

Obviously, the weights and the balance front to rear change as Fuel, gas and water are used and the overall weight will depend on what luggage and number of passengers are included and the distribution of that weight within the vehicle. It may be worth getting your vehicle weighed in your fully laden travel conditions to check what payload you have available to fit the scooter rack if you can get around the problems highlighted.

 

Obviously, the load on the rear axle will depend on how you distribute the load within your vehicle, but up to 160kg loaded at the rear of the vehicle (see below) will add a significant load on the rear axle and reduce the load on the front which will affect the handling characteristics. There will also be weight limitations on the towbar and scooter rack, which must be complied with.The lightest scooter is around 100kgs but to that you have to add the weight of the towbar and rack which can weigh up to 60kgs for the purpose built type.

 

Many purpose built towbar manufacturers will sell you a towbar which is suitable for carrying 150kgs but when you question them about the vehicle's vertical load limit they shrug their shoulders and tell you they have manufactured many with no issues. What they would not tell you is what would happen if you were in an accident and the insurance company refused to pay due to overloading. But there are panel vans running around with scooters on the back.Owners must have either taken a chance, carry the scooter in ignorance or simply ignored the problems and taken the "gung ho" option.

 

Some time ago I read a German swing rack that was a possibility but did not pursue it as I've cooled (or to be more accurate my wife has cooled) on the possibility of carrying a scooter. There must be a solution out there but I cannot think beyond the converter's advice not to do it. I wish you luck. If you do manage to get around the problem please let me know.

[rupert123]

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and went back to a coachbuilt.

[Brian Kirby]

Might this, by Sawiko (AlKo) be what you want? http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/agito-120.html I think there may now be a UK source, as I seem to remember seeing this advertised or reviewed in MMM?

 

You'll have to root around the website a bit to find the right one, but it seems it doesn't mount as a towbar, so is able to carry higher loads. I'm pretty sure you'll find it is fully Type Approved for fitting, as the Germans seem to TA everything to go onto a vehicle, and all such physical additions have to be recorded in the vehicle reg doc, and cannot be DIY fitted (or must be professionally checked if DIY fitted).

 

I'd be inclined to check for possible ground clearance problems at the rear, though. It's a beefy piece of kit. Won't be cheap, either!

 

It is probably designed to suit the first opening rear door on a LHD van, so it may be worth checking whether the door arrangement is handed for RHD, and whether that would affect its use.

 

I think I'd also be inclined to first get the van and take it on a shakedown run before getting any such rack fitted. Apart from not confusing possible warranty issues on a new purchese, it would give you the opportunity to weigh it in full touring trim before proceeding with the rack.

 

I'd suggest you also look carefully at the chassis version you opt for with the conversion, as some of the "light" chassis have quite restrictive rear axle loads, especially with the SEVEL vans. As said above, because it is mounted behind the axle, it is going to add more to the rear axle load than the weight of the scooter plus the self-weight of the rack. The difference will come off the front axle load, which can be a good thing with many PVC layouts, as they tend to run front heavy.

[Robinhood]

.....the prime market for additional load carriers for the rear of 'vans is probably Germany, and it would be worthwhile looking at the items available there, and also absorbing some of the additional factors that come into play.

 

It is common (but not universal) for German panel van conversions (for example, the larger Globecar and Pössl vans oft-mentioned on here) to be carried out on the heavy (Maxi) base. This gives the opportunity to buy a vehicle with a GVW of 3500kg, but front and rear axle maxima of 2100/2400kg respectively. Subject to the overall balance of weight front to back being viable, this should give opportunity to add a significant rear load. (I also suspect that the vehicle could be paper-upgraded to greater than 3500kg if this also is a problem, but that would be something to check - a rack plus scooter is going to take a big lump out of 500kg or so payload). Few UK converters build on the Maxi as standard (if at all).

 

The LWB Sevel van has a very short overhang, helping with the problem, but the XLWB (being the same wheelbase as the LWB, has a longer overhang, and you may wish to avoid this).

 

After-market additions in Germany need to be type-approved, and also entered on the base vehicle's documentation, adding a certain amount of credence to the engineering standards used, both in building and attaching the rack.

 

I know I've posted Sawiko (now part of Al-Ko) links before, but I'll do it again simply to highlight the possible solutions (there are a few for Scooters here):

 

http://www.sawiko.de/downloads/Katalog_2014/Katalog_2014_Hecktraeger_Kastenwagen.pdf

 

....not cheap, but excellent quality, and fitted at the factory (or by Al-Ko in Warwick, at somewhat of a premium).

 

This might give you some ideas on how best to approach the issue.

 

 

[Colin Leake]

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

[SimonH]

There are ways to achieve what you want, nothing is impossible, depends how much you want to spend.

 

Uprating the load carrying capacity of a van is simple enough, depending on the van, there are several Air-Assist suspension systems that are routinely fitted to vans and SUVs. Essentially you'll get a large air-spring that fits in or on your existing rear suspension and connected to an air compressor. You can inflate or deflate the air springs according to the weight you intend to carry, driving conditions, etc.

 

There are plenty of companies that manufacture rear load carriers that can be fitted to your vehicle. I've seen several motorbike carriers that will cope with smaller bikes easily enough.

 

Then it's just a matter of making sure it's all nailed to your chassis properly.

 

I have an Air-Helper kit fitted to my camper, built onto a Land Rover Defender, with a small air compressor activated by a switch on the dashboard.

 

I can change from wallowy to rock solid on the fly.

[rupert123]

Colin Leake - 2014-07-31 10:50 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

We bought an Autosleeper which was a good spec van but the things we did not like are common to all. The sliding side door is a real pain, my wife simply could not shut it from inside. The rear doors can be dealt with but only IH as far as I am aware does a proper job with the rear and does away with them. It simply felt to cramped, I have heard all the views about people spending all their time outside but we simply do not. Even in southern Europe especially in the early and late parts of the year and in the summer when the midges get around we like to be inside and comfortable. We did not find the smaller size any great driving advantage and we spend a lot of our time travelling in the mountains over small alpine passes. Their are a lot of other reasons, there is a thread somewhere I started with the reasons laid out more fully. I feel they are overrated and definitely overpriced, before I upset the PVC owners on here, they are sensitive souls, would point out my opinion only.

[dicksob]

Dave, I would be very careful around your axle weights and total weight when considering whether you can carry a scooter. When we bought our IH Tio RL, 6.3m, 3litre with comfortmatic on a maxi chassis with 16in wheels, we upgraded the weight from 3500kg to 4000kg. This allowed us 2100 on front axle and 2400 on the rear.

When we weighed the van in full touring mode with 2 electric bikes on a towball mounted rack, on a VOSA weigh bridge so accurate, we came in at 1860 front, 1790 rear and 3650 total. So we would be ok with say a scooter and rack weighing 100/125kg I think.

If you have a 3500kg chassis I think you would have watch spec on your van and other extras fitted to stay both safe and legal.

Bill

[Mike88]

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 11:54 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2014-07-31 10:50 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

We bought an Autosleeper which was a good spec van but the things we did not like are common to all. The sliding side door is a real pain, my wife simply could not shut it from inside. The rear doors can be dealt with but only IH as far as I am aware does a proper job with the rear and does away with them. It simply felt to cramped, I have heard all the views about people spending all their time outside but we simply do not. Even in southern Europe especially in the early and late parts of the year and in the summer when the midges get around we like to be inside and comfortable. We did not find the smaller size any great driving advantage and we spend a lot of our time travelling in the mountains over small alpine passes. Their are a lot of other reasons, there is a thread somewhere I started with the reasons laid out more fully. I feel they are overrated and definitely overpriced, before I upset the PVC owners on here, they are sensitive souls, would point out my opinion only.

 

There are not too many people that have downsized and then upsized so Rupert's experience should not be ignored as he clearly did not get on with his panel van. Anyone thinking of downsizing should think of the space disadvantages of panel van ownership as Rupert found out to his considerable cost.

 

Without going back over the old arguments Rupert's issues with the panel van stemmed from the fact he downsized to a SMALL 5.5 metre panel van. I know he disagrees but there is a considerable increase in space when you opt for a 6 metre or 6.3 metre van. I know because I have owned both 5.5 metre and 6 metre vans and that additional length does make a huge difference.

 

His other objection related to the sliding door when just about every panel van owner I know feels is a positive aspect of panel van ownership as you can lounge inside with the door open which connects you to the outside and you do not get that claustrophobic feeling that you get in some coachbuilts. The sliding door is great for example in the rain with the blind out or in the sun on a windy day or parked up enabling you to enjoy a panoramic view coupled with fresh air. Clearly that did not appeal to Rupert and that is fair enough. However, where I do agree with Rupert is his point about opening the sliding door from both the outside and inside due I think to the tightness of fit causing a vacuum and considerable resistance. My wife struggles also.

 

At the end of the day the choice should depend on how you propose to use the van. If your holiday is more about turning up on a campsite and staying there for the duration, a coachbuilt is probably a far better choice because they do offer more room. I frequent some sites in Spain where people spend months on a site without moving and in this regard a panel van is not the ideal choice. Indeed one could question whether a caravan would be better for these people but that is another subject. However, if you like touring and using the van to park in towns, cities and the beach then perhaps a panel van is probably best.

 

As I said earlier you need to take Rupert's points on board but in the context of the size of van he experienced and the type of holiday you propose to take.

[rupert123]

Mike88 - 2014-08-01 1:32 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 11:54 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2014-07-31 10:50 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

We bought an Autosleeper which was a good spec van but the things we did not like are common to all. The sliding side door is a real pain, my wife simply could not shut it from inside. The rear doors can be dealt with but only IH as far as I am aware does a proper job with the rear and does away with them. It simply felt to cramped, I have heard all the views about people spending all their time outside but we simply do not. Even in southern Europe especially in the early and late parts of the year and in the summer when the midges get around we like to be inside and comfortable. We did not find the smaller size any great driving advantage and we spend a lot of our time travelling in the mountains over small alpine passes. Their are a lot of other reasons, there is a thread somewhere I started with the reasons laid out more fully. I feel they are overrated and definitely overpriced, before I upset the PVC owners on here, they are sensitive souls, would point out my opinion only.

 

There are not too many people that have downsized and then upsized so Rupert's experience should not be ignored as he clearly did not get on with his panel van. Anyone thinking of downsizing should think of the space disadvantages of panel van ownership as Rupert found out to his considerable cost.

 

Without going back over the old arguments Rupert's issues with the panel van stemmed from the fact he downsized to a SMALL 5.5 metre panel van. I know he disagrees but there is a considerable increase in space when you opt for a 6 metre or 6.3 metre van. I know because I have owned both 5.5 metre and 6 metre vans and that additional length does make a huge difference.

 

His other objection related to the sliding door when just about every panel van owner I know feels is a positive aspect of panel van ownership as you can lounge inside with the door open which connects you to the outside and you do not get that claustrophobic feeling that you get in some coachbuilts. The sliding door is great for example in the rain with the blind out or in the sun on a windy day or parked up enabling you to enjoy a panoramic view coupled with fresh air. Clearly that did not appeal to Rupert and that is fair enough. However, where I do agree with Rupert is his point about opening the sliding door from both the outside and inside due I think to the tightness of fit causing a vacuum and considerable resistance. My wife struggles also.

 

At the end of the day the choice should depend on how you propose to use the van. If your holiday is more about turning up on a campsite and staying there for the duration, a coachbuilt is probably a far better choice because they do offer more room. I frequent some sites in Spain where people spend months on a site without moving and in this regard a panel van is not the ideal choice. Indeed one could question whether a caravan would be better for these people but that is another subject. However, if you like touring and using the van to park in towns, cities and the beach then perhaps a panel van is probably best.

 

As I said earlier you need to take Rupert's points on board but in the context of the size of van he experienced and the type of holiday you propose to take.

OK Mike all that is far enough but you are making some big assumptions on the type of holidays we take. We rarely, if ever, stay in one place for more than three nights, we love touring it is why we have a M/H. You will know if you followed threads like my account of the 'route of the high alps' that we do not follow easy roads either. You are correct in assuming we never park in towns or cities, in fact rarely go near them, as for staying on a beach even the thought horrifies us. However I fail to see how any of this can effect your choice of van, there is absolutely no problem with going anywhere I want with my coach built, if I want to get into a town prefer to park outside and take the scooter in anyway. I simply do not see any point, whatsoever in a panel van and the 'advantages, you point to are a touch tenuous to say the least. When you are inside why the hell would you want to be connected to the outside, why not just go outside, as for feeling claustrophobic surely you have that one the wrong way round. Guess all you lot who are stuck with your PVC's are never going to admit it, you just made a massive mistake, why not put it right, sell the thing and buy a proper M/H. (lol)

[Mike88]

Basically my post was not intended to disagree with you as I thought I had implied but to point out that you had bought a small panel van which you had not made clear in your response.

 

As to the other points I was not referring to your particular usage of a motorhome but to some of the issues that the questioner might wish to consider when deciding whether to downsize to a panel van.

[Colin Leake]

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 2:47 PM

 

Mike88 - 2014-08-01 1:32 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 11:54 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2014-07-31 10:50 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

We bought an Autosleeper which was a good spec van but the things we did not like are common to all. The sliding side door is a real pain, my wife simply could not shut it from inside. The rear doors can be dealt with but only IH as far as I am aware does a proper job with the rear and does away with them. It simply felt to cramped, I have heard all the views about people spending all their time outside but we simply do not. Even in southern Europe especially in the early and late parts of the year and in the summer when the midges get around we like to be inside and comfortable. We did not find the smaller size any great driving advantage and we spend a lot of our time travelling in the mountains over small alpine passes. Their are a lot of other reasons, there is a thread somewhere I started with the reasons laid out more fully. I feel they are overrated and definitely overpriced, before I upset the PVC owners on here, they are sensitive souls, would point out my opinion only.

 

There are not too many people that have downsized and then upsized so Rupert's experience should not be ignored as he clearly did not get on with his panel van. Anyone thinking of downsizing should think of the space disadvantages of panel van ownership as Rupert found out to his considerable cost.

 

Without going back over the old arguments Rupert's issues with the panel van stemmed from the fact he downsized to a SMALL 5.5 metre panel van. I know he disagrees but there is a considerable increase in space when you opt for a 6 metre or 6.3 metre van. I know because I have owned both 5.5 metre and 6 metre vans and that additional length does make a huge difference.

 

His other objection related to the sliding door when just about every panel van owner I know feels is a positive aspect of panel van ownership as you can lounge inside with the door open which connects you to the outside and you do not get that claustrophobic feeling that you get in some coachbuilts. The sliding door is great for example in the rain with the blind out or in the sun on a windy day or parked up enabling you to enjoy a panoramic view coupled with fresh air. Clearly that did not appeal to Rupert and that is fair enough. However, where I do agree with Rupert is his point about opening the sliding door from both the outside and inside due I think to the tightness of fit causing a vacuum and considerable resistance. My wife struggles also.

 

At the end of the day the choice should depend on how you propose to use the van. If your holiday is more about turning up on a campsite and staying there for the duration, a coachbuilt is probably a far better choice because they do offer more room. I frequent some sites in Spain where people spend months on a site without moving and in this regard a panel van is not the ideal choice. Indeed one could question whether a caravan would be better for these people but that is another subject. However, if you like touring and using the van to park in towns, cities and the beach then perhaps a panel van is probably best.

 

As I said earlier you need to take Rupert's points on board but in the context of the size of van he experienced and the type of holiday you propose to take.

OK Mike all that is far enough but you are making some big assumptions on the type of holidays we take. We rarely, if ever, stay in one place for more than three nights, we love touring it is why we have a M/H. You will know if you followed threads like my account of the 'route of the high alps' that we do not follow easy roads either. You are correct in assuming we never park in towns or cities, in fact rarely go near them, as for staying on a beach even the thought horrifies us. However I fail to see how any of this can effect your choice of van, there is absolutely no problem with going anywhere I want with my coach built, if I want to get into a town prefer to park outside and take the scooter in anyway. I simply do not see any point, whatsoever in a panel van and the 'advantages, you point to are a touch tenuous to say the least. When you are inside why the hell would you want to be connected to the outside, why not just go outside, as for feeling claustrophobic surely you have that one the wrong way round. Guess all you lot who are stuck with your PVC's are never going to admit it, you just made a massive mistake, why not put it right, sell the thing and buy a proper M/H. (lol)

 

The one we are looking at is by RS. 7M long, 3Lt V6 engine with a proper 7 speed tiptronic torque converter auto and that dang sliding door is electrically operated sliding smoothly at the touch of a button. Main two worries we have is that the Merc Sprinter base is said to tend to roll about a bit so a test drive will be needed. The other potential sticking point is that we live in Kent so taking it back to their factory for any rectification work would not be very practical. Have to have a meaningful conversation with them about that. True it is a little expensive but very much a case of getting what you pay for. A fully speced up IH can cost almost as much and I know which I would rather have. The quality of the RS just makes you feel good.

[whatsupdoc]

Many thanks for all the constructive comments - I always suspected it was going to be tricky!

 

Certainly Germany seems to be ahead of the game, and I wasn't aware that there was a "maxi" chassis.

 

I am a fan of air suspension, offering improved handling, but not weight solutions.

 

We'll be deciding in the autumn, so I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[Muswell]

Colin Leake - 2014-08-01 10:09 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 2:47 PM

 

Mike88 - 2014-08-01 1:32 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-08-01 11:54 AM

 

Colin Leake - 2014-07-31 10:50 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-07-31 10:26 AM

 

I have carried a scooter on the back of a motorhome for around six years now and would not be without it, however as Mike has said it brings problems. A couple of years ago I made the very bad move to change to a panel van, I quickly changed back, but while I had the van took weights and looked into feasibility of carrying a scooter. A panel van will carry a light scooter very well except for the problems Mike has pointed out with the quoted maximum carry weights. The small rear overhang is a big advantage as is the initial weight distribution and if you contact a company like Armitage trailors they will advise you. I decided to buy a Hydratrail from Easylifter which would do the job but in the end could stand the panel van no longer and e changewent back to a coachbuilt.

 

We are thinking of changing to a panel van from our present coach built. Most people we have talked to on sites seem to be glad they made the change but then having made the change they would ,be a tendency to convince themselves they were happy with it. Out of interest what made you unhappy with your PVC to,the extent of going to expense of changing back to a coach built. I would add that inour case we are looking at the top end of the PVC market.

We bought an Autosleeper which was a good spec van but the things we did not like are common to all. The sliding side door is a real pain, my wife simply could not shut it from inside. The rear doors can be dealt with but only IH as far as I am aware does a proper job with the rear and does away with them. It simply felt to cramped, I have heard all the views about people spending all their time outside but we simply do not. Even in southern Europe especially in the early and late parts of the year and in the summer when the midges get around we like to be inside and comfortable. We did not find the smaller size any great driving advantage and we spend a lot of our time travelling in the mountains over small alpine passes. Their are a lot of other reasons, there is a thread somewhere I started with the reasons laid out more fully. I feel they are overrated and definitely overpriced, before I upset the PVC owners on here, they are sensitive souls, would point out my opinion only.

 

There are not too many people that have downsized and then upsized so Rupert's experience should not be ignored as he clearly did not get on with his panel van. Anyone thinking of downsizing should think of the space disadvantages of panel van ownership as Rupert found out to his considerable cost.

 

Without going back over the old arguments Rupert's issues with the panel van stemmed from the fact he downsized to a SMALL 5.5 metre panel van. I know he disagrees but there is a considerable increase in space when you opt for a 6 metre or 6.3 metre van. I know because I have owned both 5.5 metre and 6 metre vans and that additional length does make a huge difference.

 

His other objection related to the sliding door when just about every panel van owner I know feels is a positive aspect of panel van ownership as you can lounge inside with the door open which connects you to the outside and you do not get that claustrophobic feeling that you get in some coachbuilts. The sliding door is great for example in the rain with the blind out or in the sun on a windy day or parked up enabling you to enjoy a panoramic view coupled with fresh air. Clearly that did not appeal to Rupert and that is fair enough. However, where I do agree with Rupert is his point about opening the sliding door from both the outside and inside due I think to the tightness of fit causing a vacuum and considerable resistance. My wife struggles also.

 

At the end of the day the choice should depend on how you propose to use the van. If your holiday is more about turning up on a campsite and staying there for the duration, a coachbuilt is probably a far better choice because they do offer more room. I frequent some sites in Spain where people spend months on a site without moving and in this regard a panel van is not the ideal choice. Indeed one could question whether a caravan would be better for these people but that is another subject. However, if you like touring and using the van to park in towns, cities and the beach then perhaps a panel van is probably best.

 

As I said earlier you need to take Rupert's points on board but in the context of the size of van he experienced and the type of holiday you propose to take.

OK Mike all that is far enough but you are making some big assumptions on the type of holidays we take. We rarely, if ever, stay in one place for more than three nights, we love touring it is why we have a M/H. You will know if you followed threads like my account of the 'route of the high alps' that we do not follow easy roads either. You are correct in assuming we never park in towns or cities, in fact rarely go near them, as for staying on a beach even the thought horrifies us. However I fail to see how any of this can effect your choice of van, there is absolutely no problem with going anywhere I want with my coach built, if I want to get into a town prefer to park outside and take the scooter in anyway. I simply do not see any point, whatsoever in a panel van and the 'advantages, you point to are a touch tenuous to say the least. When you are inside why the hell would you want to be connected to the outside, why not just go outside, as for feeling claustrophobic surely you have that one the wrong way round. Guess all you lot who are stuck with your PVC's are never going to admit it, you just made a massive mistake, why not put it right, sell the thing and buy a proper M/H. (lol)

 

The one we are looking at is by RS. 7M long, 3Lt V6 engine with a proper 7 speed tiptronic torque converter auto and that dang sliding door is electrically operated sliding smoothly at the touch of a button. Main two worries we have is that the Merc Sprinter base is said to tend to roll about a bit so a test drive will be needed. The other potential sticking point is that we live in Kent so taking it back to their factory for any rectification work would not be very practical. Have to have a meaningful conversation with them about that. True it is a little expensive but very much a case of getting what you pay for. A fully speced up IH can cost almost as much and I know which I would rather have. The quality of the RS just makes you feel good.

 

Don't wish to be a Jeremiah but have MB resolved the rust problems with the Sprinter they had a few years ago?