Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yes, I know, a 'how long is a piece of string' question. My Transit- based 'van is four years old and has done 44,000 miles. However, when it was less than a year old we took a wrong turning in the Tarn and had no choice but to reverse up a very steep slope. It was an horrendous experience. The smoke generated by the clutch filled the cab and the smell of burning lasted for several days. I stayed on a site for four days and then, as we went through Carcassonne, I called in at a Ford dealer who took it for a short drive and pronounced that all was well. However, he did say that I'd probably taken an extra year off the normal life of the clutch. Since then I have a nagging worry that our next trip may be the one when it fails and we're off too the French Alps in a a few days. Is there a typical life for a Transit's clutch with a heavy motorhome on the chassis? Do I get any warning of impending failure, such as slipping, or will it go quickly necessitating a phone call to ADAC and a recovery vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I understand your concern but commercial clutches are pretty tough and I would be as concerned about whether the excess heat has softened or weakened any sprung steel components or the release bearing (if they still use these?) as I would the clutch faces. The only unscientific way I know to get an idea about how good a clutch is is to provoke it and see if it slips. Drive up a long, does not need to be steep, hill in a highish gear and prod the clutch pedal until it starts to release and slip then keeping your right foot hard down let go the clutch pedal and it should grip instantly. If it not instant it would suggest to me that there might be a problem developing. I would imagine that you are an experienced enough driver to 'feel' whether something is wrong and generally speaking if it feels OK it is OK. If the clutch starts to slip it usually, but not always, gradually worsens with miles, but if there is severe heat damage any failure, and there is no way of knowing, could well be instant and catastrophic if the clutch plates disintegrate. Then again any doubts a new clutch afore you go would be easier than sourcing one in the Alpes. I suspect that you know the Alpes so you will know that most of the gradients are not an issue, but some of the hairpin bends certainly are especially going uphill when there will be times you have to stop and back and forth with a big van just to get round them and that can be very hard on the clutch. Sorry it's a non expert view but hope it helps, but if it were mine and I had no plans to change vans I would probably get it replaced for the peace of mind. That said I would prefer to drive a couple of hundred miles on a new clutch before going on holiday just to ensure both workmanship and materials are up to the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Thank you. Have to dash out now but will digest that later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 It's a good idea IMO to get someone else to have a drive of your vehicle, as one tends to get used to the clutch operation. Found this out on OH car once, when I drove it , I said I thought the clutch was slipping, he had not noticed it, as i said , you do get used to the "feel" of a clutch We had ours changed last year at 40,000 ish miles 7 years old van, more for peace of mind prior to going away for 3 months. When they got to it , found it was close to needing a change any way. My OH prefers to get things changed before ,rather than when it goes wrong. Not a cheap job mind, but worth it in the long run. i don't think owners of expensive MH, should worry about a few pounds spent to save maybe more if you get a major problem abroad. If you can't afford to keep the vehicle well serviced , you should not own one! Gone are the days when we (well him) do major repairs, Leave it to the experts/younger guys. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Your purchase of the gas mask frank will serve dual purpose on your French trip Burning clutch smell mask and gas attack mask .... Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 There isn't a thread that these two clowns from Chatterbox can't ruin with their inanities. Having finished off one section of the forum they're determined to do the same to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Is there not an inspection plate? It might be worth a visit to a clutch centre to see if they can advise, better now than half way up Mont Blanc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 PJay - 2014-08-04 3:49 PM It's a good idea IMO to get someone else to have a drive of your vehicle, as one tends to get used to the clutch operation. Found this out on OH car once, when I drove it , I said I thought the clutch was slipping, he had not noticed it, as i said , you do get used to the "feel" of a clutch We had ours changed last year at 40,000 ish miles 7 years old van, more for peace of mind prior to going away for 3 months. When they got to it , found it was close to needing a change any way. My OH prefers to get things changed before ,rather than when it goes wrong. Not a cheap job mind, but worth it in the long run. i don't think owners of expensive MH, should worry about a few pounds spent to save maybe more if you get a major problem abroad. If you can't afford to keep the vehicle well serviced , you should not own one! Gone are the days when we (well him) do major repairs, Leave it to the experts/younger guys. PJay Thanks. I'll try the Tracker test and if I suspect any problems I'll just ask my dealer about fitting a new clutch. Too late for this trip so fingers crossed. Thanks to those who made a sensible response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 donna miller - 2014-08-04 5:11 PM Is there not an inspection plate? It might be worth a visit to a clutch centre to see if they can advise, better now than half way up Mont Blanc. It's never been mentioned by two Ford dealers so I'm assuming not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Planning on changing mine this month as a precaution..............75k miles and 24 years old :D.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I think I can give you some comfort and confidence. We've had our 2006 Fiat-based 4 ton Hymer since new and I've had two or three clutch experiences such as you describe and our originl clutch is still going strong and th people I've spoken to (including the guy who does our servicing and has looked at it and driven it) all say don't worry.. The comments about this being a commercial vehicle grade clutch should comfort you. We got ourselves into a tiny single track road in France (satnav error) and tried to escape by reversing direction when we got to a junction. We had a 1500 kg trailer on the back. The side lane I tried to reverse into was inclined upwards a bit and what with the angle of turn and the gradient, the clutch started smelling and smoking, so I gave up. This was out latest of several such "failures", always reversing and uphill. At least this time I gave up before the cab filled with smoke too, but the smell is horrible and it lingers too, doesn't it? The clutch has never shown signs of slipping. We've only done 32,000 miles but I wanted to replace the clutch as a precaution but our garage man is insistent that it isn't necessary. I looked into getting an upgraded clutch too but couldn;t find anything. So I shrug my shoulders and ensure that our breakdown cover is OK instead or worrying any more. By the way I've done a lot of alpine touring, including in the MH, and it doesn't seem to struggle at all. The only time I thought I might be in trouble was doing a hill start on a very steep bit with our 1500kg trailer on at some traffic lights because I did have to use a lot of revs and slip the clutch a bit but we were OK. Without the trailer it really wouldn't have been a problem at all. I find long steep descents more of a challenge than the climbs. You have to keep the speed right down to be able to use engine braking properly and so ensure that your brakes don't overheat. Never mind if you are holding others up, keep your speed right down to avoid over-revving the engine. For some reason it's reversing up an incline that's the real problem, and I put that down to reverse gear on our Fiat being a remarkably high gear for a reverse - closer to second than first in ratio I suspect. Not sure why they chose that ratio, maybe it's something to do with Italian van drivers having to do high speed stunts in reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 StuartO - 2014-08-04 5:24 PM I think I can give you some comfort and confidence. We've had our 2006 Fiat-based 4 ton Hymer since new and I've had two or three clutch experiences such as you describe and our originl clutch is still going strong and th people I've spoken to (including the guy who does our servicing and has looked at it and driven it) all say don't worry.. The comments about this being a commercial vehicle grade clutch should comfort you. We got ourselves into a tiny single track road in France (satnav error) and tried to escape by reversing direction when we got to a junction. We had a 1500 kg trailer on the back. The side lane I tried to reverse into was inclined upwards a bit and what with the angle of turn and the gradient, the clutch started smelling and smoking, so I gave up. This was out latest of several such "failures", always reversing and uphill. At least this time I gave up before the cab filled with smoke too, but the smell is horrible and it lingers too, doesn't it? The clutch has never shown signs of slipping. We've only done 32,000 miles but I wanted to replace the clutch as a precaution but our garage man is insistent that it isn't necessary. I looked into getting an upgraded clutch too but couldn;t find anything. So I shrug my shoulders and ensure that our breakdown cover is OK instead or worrying any more. By the way I've done a lot of alpine touring, including in the MH, and it doesn't seem to struggle at all. The only time I thought I might be in trouble was doing a hill start on a very steep bit with our 1500kg trailer on at some traffic lights because I did have to use a lot of revs and slip the clutch a bit but we were OK. Without the trailer it really wouldn't have been a problem at all. I find long steep descents more of a challenge than the climbs. You have to keep the speed right down to be able to use engine braking properly and so ensure that your brakes don't overheat. Never mind if you are holding others up, keep your speed right down to avoid over-revving the engine. For some reason it's reversing up an incline that's the real problem, and I put that down to reverse gear on our Fiat being a remarkably high gear for a reverse - closer to second than first in ratio I suspect. Not sure why they chose that ratio, maybe it's something to do with Italian van drivers having to do high speed stunts in reverse Thanks, that's very reassuring. I'll see how I go on in the Alps in a few days time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-08-04 5:10 PM There isn't a thread that these two clowns from Chatterbox can't ruin with their inanities. Having finished off one section of the forum they're determined to do the same to this one. I haven't argued or littered my posts with vile swear words or called anyone names Frank unlike you have today but if I have offended you in some way with my previous post I need to say sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Our Transit MK5 based Auto-Sleeper Duetto did 80,000 miles in 7 years in our hands on the original clutch. We part-exd it for a newer MK7 Transit and did 50,000 miles on its original clutch in 6 years. Never had the clutch burning and bad smell problem, but our experience seems to say that provided it was a 'one off' and not regular practice, you should be OK. The people who have the problems seem to be the 'clutch riders', who constantly have their left foot on the pedal, so if you are normally kind to your clutch, it should be good to you (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 There's not a lot of vehicles that need a clutch before 60k, even if not looked after that well. Slipping the clutch up the hill would not have done it any favours, but dosent mean it's killed it, a lot of clutch wear comes from down changing at higher revs, a thing most people overlook. Back in the day you could judge a clutch by the 'biting' point, now most are self adjusting so it's not as easy. I wouldn't worry about it if it's not causing any problems at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Phew !! Have just bought a second hand transit today ,should i be worrying about the clutch? Its a 2010 and done 86,000 ,are you a worrier had enough? I prefer to pre-empt problems but i dont suppose you can for everything ,get plenty of breakdown cover and a credit card and im sure youll be fine,i wish i was more "devil may care" but sadly am one of lifes pessimistic worriers ;hope you have a troublefree holiday pp:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Pampam - 2014-08-04 8:25 PM Phew !! Have just bought a second hand transit today ,should i be worrying about the clutch? Its a 2010 and done 86,000 . In a word Pam - NO! Assuming you test drove it and the clutch is sound there is no reason to suspect that it won't last for years. I've been driving since I was 17 and have never had a clutch fail on any vehicle except a couple of golden (rusty!) oldies years ago that I knew were iffy and so paid less for and even those lasted far longer than I expected. As was mentioned earlier pretty well all modern vehicles can take a lot of punishment these days without complaining so if it works well now and, if it's cable operated the adjustment is not too tight, I would not lose any sleep over it! The last van I had with an iffy slippy clutch was a very high mileage Talbot Express Talisman and that you could make slip by prodding the clutch pedal under load in a high gear and even that with careful treatment lasted as long as we had the van - three years and some 20,000 miles. By all means get it checked by your local friendly garage (not a freefit place that sells clutches!) along with the rest of the mechanicals and then just enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You can test the clutch with the vehicle stationary and handbrake firmly applied. Engage top gear, rev the engine to maximum torque (abut 2500 revs) engage the clutch whilst flooring the accelerator pedal and the clutch should stall the engine. Sounds drastic but it puts very little wear on the clutch because its over in a couple of seconds before the clutch produces enough heat to do any damage. I've driven a 44 ton lorry back from Italy with a worn and slipping clutch. If the heat had done enough damage to cause sudden failure I think it would have failed by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I agree with Peter James post, this is the correct way to collect a clutch. Clutch designs are pretty robust nowadays and the original dealer you visited was correct in what they said. I worked for the RAC for a few years driving a 52 plate Transit, I abused the clutch a numer of times either towing a large vehicle or getting moving on a hill whilst towing. It lasted ages and was only replaced when the Dual Mass Flywheel failed. Remember these vehicles are the 'backbone of Britain' and driven by builders, delivery people and RAC patrols who do not pay for the repairs. Having just returned from staying at the foot of Alpe D'huez, I would be more concerned about your brake pads. The smell of hot brakes is phenomenal. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That's a point, if they change the clutch they will probably sting you for a new dual mass flywheel as well. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Peter James - 2014-08-04 10:40 PM You can test the clutch with the vehicle stationary and handbrake firmly applied. Engage top gear, rev the engine to maximum torque (abut 2500 revs) engage the clutch whilst flooring the accelerator pedal and the clutch should stall the engine. . Maybe? I prefer to stick to my method where the moving chassis and weight of the vehicle also play their part in the equation between grip and slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Tracker - 2014-08-05 1:27 PM Peter James - 2014-08-04 10:40 PM You can test the clutch with the vehicle stationary and handbrake firmly applied. Engage top gear, rev the engine to maximum torque (abut 2500 revs) engage the clutch whilst flooring the accelerator pedal and the clutch should stall the engine. . Maybe? I prefer to stick to my method where the moving chassis and weight of the vehicle also play their part in the equation between grip and slip. Yes, I think I do as well! The other method seems a tad extreme! Anyway, thanks for all the responses. I'm feeling less worried that my clutch may be about to expire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 My advice is not to test a clutch by stalling the engine. The sudden stop could snap the timing belt and a stall at low speed is no better. I prefer the full throttle uphill and dipping the clutch and then letting it out sharply as its not so hard a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 George Collings - 2014-08-05 11:03 PM My advice is not to test a clutch by stalling the engine. The sudden stop could snap the timing belt and a stall at low speed is no better. I prefer the full throttle uphill and dipping the clutch and then letting it out sharply as its not so hard a jerk. I've fitted hundreds of clutches and we always tested them like that because it was quicker than taking it out on a road test. Never snapped any timing belts or had one brought back so I can only assume they were alright. But 'letting the clutch out sharply' to produce 'so hard a jerk' 8-) was your idea, not mine. I suggested 'engaging the clutch' over 'a couple of seconds' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 George Collings - 2014-08-05 11:03 PM .... The sudden stop could snap the timing belt and a stall at low speed is no better ........ .....though it's a chain on this particular vehicle..... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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