Why I've not bought a van

[colin]

colin - 2014-08-05 9:04 PM

 

Robinhood - 2014-08-05 8:57 PM

 

colin - 2014-08-05 8:54 PM

 

I've got scratches on the windows of the van, doesn't worry me too much, gf managed to scratch the paint on the thatch wire couple of years back,......

 

....you have a thatched 'van??!

 

 

If you search back you will see I posted a photo I took of a 'thached' van, sadly not mine. :D

eats shoots and leaves

 

Hah, found it.

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-with-a-balcony-/27801/

[Tracker]

The saddest thing on that topic is all those names we never hear from any more.

[Rayjsj]

Ash,

You have a particularly good Campervan maker/converter in Fife, if thats anywhere near you ?

Cut out the middle men, and go straight to the maker, I understand they give great aftersales service too.

 

http://www.eastneukcampervans.co.uk/

 

Ray

[Colin Leake]

Abcheetham - 2014-08-05 6:41 PM

 

I'm 6'3" and my wife and I decided to buy a motorhome a month ago. We buried ourselves in research visited every local dealer and went in and out of probably 60 vans. 2 weeks after we started we bought a used Hymer from Oakwell Motorhomes. By putting in the time we learnt what was good value, and yes we had to deal with the typical dork salesmen but thankfully Oakwell were a family firm and all very nice people! When we say the Hymer we agreed a price there and then and placed a deposit. Almost 1 month to the day we decided to buy we drove it away.

 

One thing we have learnt is that the perfect van doesn't exist so stop looking for that and buy one in the full knowledge that it will be a compromise, you'll never buy one at this rate, and all the dealers you've spoken to will probably think you're a tyre kicker now!

 

I often wonder how my neighbour would get on finding a motorhome. He's 7'4" tall. Proberbally why they have a tent. Mind you I'm only 5'6" tall so Mark comes in very handy when I trying to clean high parts of,our motorhome.

[kelly58]

Ashpark - 2014-08-05 4:16 PMIt has been nearly three years since we decided to buy a motorhome/campervan, but here we are, still without one. I started to try and analyse why and I think I’ve come up with the main reason……..dealers. We’ve had a lot of good advice on here, how to do proper research, what to read and with the many potential pitfalls of certain types of van laid bare. I’ve scrutinised the motorhome magazines for reviews (anybody noticed that the same vans get reviewed in several at the same time, must be coincidence*-) ), wandered round showrooms and scanned the internet. Don’t get me wrong, we have perhaps been over cautious, deciding on how much to spend, what kind of setup suits our needs, and, of course, it’s taken some time for the OH to tell me what kind of van I want. Overall though, it’s the mystifying world of those selling the things that has proved the biggest stumbling block. We’ve been to the last two Scottish shows and the lack of knowledge displayed by the salespeople has been staggering. I admit to being rather obsessed by the size of beds on offer, my excuse is I’m 6ft 2in and don’t normally sleep with my feet either overhanging the end of the bed or stuck out a window. Was the info written on the crib sheet left inside the van or could I find someone who knew the bed sizes, nope. They could show me the nice catches on the cupboards, enthral about the material on the seats, show me how shiny the sink was, pull the flyscreen out (which seems to cause all salespeople to exhibit a manic grin), but bed dimensions………I found a dealer at the last show who offered a sizable discount on a new van as we had no trade-in, even wrote it down on the business card he gave me. When I phoned him a few weeks later he denied all knowledge of our discussion and even suggested I had written the stuff on the card myself. That was total rubbish of course, as I would have given myself a bigger discount. Another dealer had a van we were interested in looking at on their website, when I phoned about it (took three calls as the salesman was not in the first twice) he said it had been sold six months earlier. He said, “there must be something wrong with your browser”. Several large dealerships have promised to contact me when stock is due to arrive………yep, you guessed it, nothing. Sadly I have fared no better on the internet searches elsewhere. Companies are regularly advertising new vehicles they just don’t have and, it seems, are unlikely to have this side of January. Ok, you guys who are long in the tooth and will know all this but I’m new at this game. Another bit of fun is, “guess the van model”. A van converter advertises and prices vans as S, SE, etc, go on their web pages and no such description exists. Other dealers place adverts which proclaim they are selling an “enhanced” model of a van, “with additional features”. When you look at the web pages all you get is something cut and pasted for the manufactures own site. And no set of photos of a van would complete without the ubiquitous strange shot of a shower cubicle from an odd angle and one of the cupboard above the cabin. Would it too much to ask for a detailed schematic layout with sizes to be included?Oh, and before I forget, have you heard the one about the dealer selling a second hand motorhome right now for £1000 more than it sold for, brand new, this time last year. Seriously, is it worth my while going to the show at the NEC in October or am I expecting too much?

Look no further how about a March 2013 AutoTrail Tracker RS full spec in pristine condition £10k less than new model with all the extra's / bike rack / alarm / solar panel / satellite TV plus bits and bobs you will have to buy separately like Silver Screen / refillable gas bottle / cables / adapters / Aires - Stellplatz and current ACSI books , PM me for full details.

[Guest JudgeMental]

pepe63 - 2014-08-05 7:12 PM

 

Tracker - 2014-08-05 6:40 PM

 

Bear in mind that far more vans are changed on a whim / wife didn't like the curtains / wrong layout / upsizing / downsizing / fancied a change, than because they are perpetually going wrong...

 

 

The above is very true Ash', and if you walk past every newish, used (probably well cared for), van you see, presuming that there is something wrong with it, then you may be missing some real gems... :-S

 

Exactly........what are you waiting for the grim reaper. Plenty of good used vans out there. buy from a private individual and get a better deal. Time to dip your toe in and get wet..it's the only way you will learn. 3 years ? Far to much analysis! lol and not enough action......plus that's 3 more summers wasted.

[Ashpark]

JudgeMental - 2014-08-07 9:33

 

Exactly........what are you waiting for the grim reaper. Plenty of good used vans out there. buy from a private individual and get a better deal. Time to dip your toe in and get wet..it's the only way you will learn. 3 years ? Far to much analysis! lol and not enough action......plus that's 3 more summers wasted.

 

So how many berths does a Grim Reaper have :-D

 

Actually we did make up our minds (a couple of times), that's the point. It was trying to see the vans that presented the problem, or am I missing something again. Do people actually buy vans without seeing them first?

 

The replies here have genuinely helped me, so thanks for that. I'm actively pursuing a particular model of van which does fit the bill and have identified a few within reasonable travelling distance. Just need to check with the OH that it's ok *-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Ashpark - 2014-08-07 4:25 PM

 

 

a)Actually we did make up our minds (a couple of times), that's the point. It was trying to see the vans that presented the problem, or am I missing something again.

 

b)Do people actually buy vans without seeing them first?

 

c) I'm actively pursuing a particular model of van which does fit the bill and have identified a few within reasonable travelling distance. Just need to check with the OH that it's ok *-)

 

Hi Ash'

a) I'm not sure what you mean by " trying to see the vans that presented the problem.."?

You can find "problems"(compromises?)with any van/layout...and once bought, the chances are you WILL find some that you hadn't noticed anyway!

 

b)Some do, if they're ordering brand new or from abroad, then they may only see a similar example of the model they have on order.

 

c)If you have a make/.model designation in mind, name it on here as there may be owners, ex-owners who can give you some feedback on them.

(Ranging from "best vehicle we ever had", through too , "what a bl**dy shed!, glad to see the back of it!" ;-) )

 

[Tracker]

If there has to be one golden rule it must surely be -

 

NEVER EVER buy any van/vehicle unless and until you have seen it, crawled over it, driven it, made up the beds, sat on the loo, stood in the shower etc etc etc.

 

Dealers forecourts are full of vans where the buyer didn't!

[Guest pelmetman]

Ashpark - 2014-08-07 4:25 PM

 

 

So how many berths does a Grim Reaper have :-D

 

 

Stacks ;-)................and apparently he has room for a lot more 8-).............

 

That said ;-).................I wouldn't mind a little wager that even if you find a camper that ticks all your boxes.................You'll discover that what you think is important now, will be different once you've tried mohoing for a while :D.................

 

A round of virtual drinks to the winner :->...........

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Tracker - 2014-08-07 5:28 PM

 

If there has to be one golden rule it must surely be -

 

NEVER EVER buy any van/vehicle unless and until you have seen it, crawled over it, driven it, made up the beds, sat on the loo, stood in the shower etc etc etc.

 

Dealers forecourts are full of vans where the buyer didn't!

 

.....AND get it weighed, to check usable axle/payload, eh Rich'.... ;-)

 

Also if you look at PVCs, then make sure you that notice the 6ft x 4ft sliding door in the side!

(..some seem to have overlooked it when they bought theirs..).

[EMS]

A few years ago we went to the Newbury show to purchase a van new or secondhand, we knew what we wanted, garage for bikes, permanent single beds nothing exotic!

We spoke to all the salesmen present with our requirements but not one replied after we had given them our telephone number and address.

Luckily whilst looking we found a Hymer that fitted our needs so we bought it and have been very satisfied.

So it is a case of looking and hoping to find by chance a suitable van because there will be no assistance from the salesmen!

I should say that we did not encounter a female sales woman in the show.

Keep looking and check the manufacturers specs for your needs, they are normally more accurate

[Guest JudgeMental]

So on top of three years deliberation you now expect the van to be available on the door step. I can assure you good vans worth putting yourself out for a bit. And to expect a dealer to be honest and trustworthy really takes the biscuit! It might be an idea to tell members on here your price range and preferred layout and maybe an experienced member could help you ID a suitable van or two...many are happy to help with plenty of time on their hands......

[Brian Kirby]

Ashpark - 2014-08-05 4:16 PM..................... Seriously, is it worth my while going to the show at the NEC in October or am I expecting too much?

I think the answer to that is probably yes, but what you get out will depend what you put in. For all the reasons you state it is, IMO, a waste of time expecting dealers, at shows or their own premises, to be fully au-fait with any van. You just have to make your own luck.

 

You haven't said what vans you have been looking at, so if you gave us a clue on that you may get a few suggestions.

 

However, my take is to contact the nearest dealer to where you live for the type of van you want, and ask them to let you have a copy of the brochure that contains the technical information covering engine and transmission options, chassis options, conversion options, and preferably their weights - so that you can see where you are heading in terms of user payload. Then start choosing what you want, and see what you are left with. When you have at least narrowed down the field, go to the NEC and have a detailed look at what you have selected in the round, and then tour the other manufacturers' stands looking at how they approach the same type of van, and collect their brochures, making sure you get that all-important technical appendix. Be prepared for a long day and, if possible, allow yourselves two days so that you have the opportunity to go back and check what you forgot!

 

To help digest what you are reading I'd suggest you get a copy of this book: Go Motorhoming and Campervanning, here: http://tinyurl.com/8973u2p It is written by experienced motorhomers and covers a wealth of detail, and will answer many more questions that you have yet identified, and may well save you buying something that will not work for you. I have no connection with Vicarious Books.

 

I would also suggest you take the opportunity to hire a van of almost any layout approximating to what you think you want, to see if any of your present assumptions need revision. About a week should be enough, but don't drive to a site and remain static, travel around as much as possible so that you get into the routines of "pitching" and "decamping" in the van, as well as testing the driving experience.

 

Bear in mind that much will hinge on where you anticipate using your van. The UK is frequently damp and breezy, whereas much of continental Europe is more settled, generally less often breezy, and not so often damp. This makes outdoor living more appealing, with the result that continental vans tend to devote less space to lounges and cookers, with more emphasis on dining areas and fixed beds.

 

My final thought is that if there are few dealers within striking distance of where you live, you may have to travel quite substantial distances to get what you want. If that is the case, place a high priority on reliability, targeting the makes that have well established reputations for customer service and few faults on delivery. Nothing guarantees a fault free van, they are largely hand assembled, and any Fred, Fritz, Francois, or Francesco can have an off-day. However, some seem to achieve consistently better results than others. This should mean their dealers spend less time fending off unhappy customers and arguing with manufacturers over warranty claims, so should have more time, and better factory support, when a van turns out to be faulty. You won't want to be making repeat visits to an unhelpful dealer who can only solve one problem at a time, apparently hoping to wear you down so that you end up just going away. So, however you view dealers in general, it will be to one of them that you will have to take any problems, so apply as much care to choosing the dealer as you do to choosing the van.

 

The lesson is, I'm afraid, that all these vehicles are a compromise between a personal ideal and what is available, and this even applies to what you buy, and where you buy it. The other compromises will emerge as you use it. The perfect van doesn't exist, or we'd all have bought it! :-)

[StuartO]

Ashpark - 2014-08-05 6:21 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-08-05 5:27 PM

 

There's another consideration. I once asked a salesman - I can't remember whether he was in the MH busines or selling cars - what sort of customer was his dread. He answered, quick as flash, "a teacher with a beard with a copy of the Guardian under his arm". He had obviously had a few gruelling or frustrating encounters with bearded teachers.

 

Salesman are there to sell to people who want to buy, not to spend disproportionate amounts of time with people who sound like they probably won't. They are not really educators. I hope I'm not being rude but are you in that category of perpetually enquiring and challenging customer do you think? Allways looking for the catch?

.

 

I've had trouble with bearded teachers myself but that was just the women :-D

 

Stuart, I don't think we are difficult customers but we're not shy either. Neither do we expect everything to be perfect first time. A problem for us, being in the central belt in Scotland, is the dearth of MH dealers within reasonable travelling distance, two are about 50 miles away and another two over 100 miles. I have even been in contact with several large dealerships in the North of England to track down the models we wanted to see.

 

I appreciate all the replies and continued helpful advice. In relation to pre-owned/pre-loved/used/second hand MHs, I worry that it's not so much buying a van where someone else has taken the hit, rather than buying something that someone else wanted rid of.

 

Cheers

 

 

Well, I did hit the stereotypical spot there didnt I? *-)

 

My late cousin was a teacher and he lived his life on the basis that everoine was ripping him off all the time - but he did nevertheless accumulate an amazing workshop with machines he bought for scrap prices and did up. He had a really old caravan too, and an extra portapotti in the back of his Volvo estate in case his wife needed the loo en route.

 

A friend of mine (ho is a geek) can't make a purchasing decision for toffee brcause he goes round in every decreasing circles analysing and re-analysing endlessly. No sense of humour unfortunately so you can't jolly him through that phase by taking the mickey.

 

I bought a motorhome without seeing it once, sent the bloke a deposit without knowing him either - I made a jusgement and decided it was safe. He trusted me too by using his own money to collect the vehicle and driving it hback from Germany. The deal was very successful.

 

There is a motorhome dealership near us which is a family firm and they have a very good name. I wouldn't hesitate to trust them when making a deal. Their reputation is important to them.

 

But there are some people I wouldnt trust at all too. There was another dealership near us, was a good family firm and i bought our first MH from the guy who built it up. They got bought out and it all became flash and modern but untrustworthy. I didnlt buy from them and some years later, part of a large network of dealerships, they went completely bust.

 

You does your homework, you give some thoughtto whether it's trustworthy and if you think so, you go for it.

[Wasnt Me]

Wow can it really be that hard?

 

We went to France last year, got peed off with the tent, saw some nice looking mhomes on an Aire.

 

We knew the layout we required/wanted, looked on a website that sell used mhomes.

 

We then arranged a viewing and bought it.

 

That was a year ago, we have not looked back since.

 

Yes it would be nice if we had electric heating and hot water and maybe another garage door.

 

Other than that we are over the moon. Probably took about a month.

 

Take a risk what's the worse that happen

 

Good luck by the way.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

StuartO - 2014-08-07 7:52 PM

 

 

I bought a motorhome without seeing it once, sent the bloke a deposit without knowing him either - I made a jusgement and decided it was safe. He trusted me too by using his own money to collect the vehicle and driving it hback from Germany. The deal was very successful.

 

 

We inherited Horace 22.5 years ago ;-)....................During that period we did think we would move onto bigger and better...............even built a 30' garage to accommodate our eventual purchase 8-)...................

 

Then I woke up and smelt the roses ;-)..............

 

Each to there own..............but I'm more than happy with the way things panned out B-)....................Although my mate Frank wont understand :D

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

pelmetman - 2014-08-07 8:03 PM

 

........Although my mate Frank wont understand .. :D

 

 

As Rich' said elsewhere, give it a rest..! *-)

It devalues and detracts from, each and every point you try to make.. :-S

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2014-08-07 8:22 PM

 

pelmetman - 2014-08-07 8:03 PM

 

........Although my mate Frank wont understand .. :D

 

 

As Rich' said elsewhere, give it a rest..! *-)

It devalues and detracts from, each and every point you try to make.. :-S

 

 

Am I not due payback for insults delivered?...............It was HE who arrived with the agenda ;-)...........

 

Remember who is the repeat offender................when it comes to number of times banned? :D..............

 

Might I suggest to my fellow forumites who are fed up to the back teeth with......ar*eholes as Robinhood so succinctly put ;-)................that you get a petition to get us off...........Maybe you should ask Frank for tips considering his vast experience (lol) (lol) (lol)...........

 

As I've no intention of leaving of my own volition................

 

But once I'm banned I'll be happy to watch from the outside..... "Frankenstein's Forum" .............

 

Be careful of what you wish for >:-)................

[Ashpark]

Many thanks for the replies, I really do appreciate the helpful advice.

 

I don't expect to get a van on my doorstep but (based on what has been said on here) it does perhaps make sense to relatively close to a dealership for warranty issues? We went to see a new van, way back when we started looking, and on paper it seem to fit the bill. First problem was the finish left something to be desired, bits hanging off and here, there and everywhere. Biggest issue, however, was the driving position was torture. It was a (sorry Pelmetman) a Ford based van with no swivel seat and, even with all the adjusting in the world, I felt cramped.

 

Based on what we are wanting, in terms of layout, and from what I've read on here, I'm looking at an Autosleeper Neuvo as a possible option. Perhaps one about 4 or 5 years old might be in our price bracket, we'll have to see, the search goes on.

 

Cheers.

[Guest pelmetman]

Ashpark - 2014-08-07 8:51 PM

Biggest issue, however, was the driving position was torture. It was a (sorry Pelmetman) a Ford based van with no swivel seat and, even with all the adjusting in the world, I felt cramped.

 

.

 

No need to be sorry, my seat is as far back as it'll go ;-)........and I ain't tall.......but the height adjustment is the bit that makes it comfortable.............well it did on older Trannies :-S..............

 

 

[Tracker]

An A/S Nuevo would be an excellent choice - there are different layouts - so which one takes your fancy?

 

If you are looking 5 years old do be aware of the dreaded gearbox judder in the early examples of the current shaped cab cause by a variety of design failings worst of which was too high a gear ratio for reverse gear. This does not seem to be an issue for 2009 van onwards but it pays to reverse slowly uphill on your test drive whatever you are buying.

 

The newer vans do drive a bit nicer than the previous model but on balance I would opt for one of the last of the old chassis - 06, 56 maybe even 07 - as it was well sorted and pretty durable by then. If you can find one with cruise control and can air con even better. Cruise can be after fitted at a sensible cost whereas air con is very expensive and probably not as effective as original fitted.

 

These are purely personal views - others may well differ!

[Ashpark]

Tracker - 2014-08-07 9:16 PM

 

An A/S Nuevo would be an excellent choice - there are different layouts - so which one takes your fancy?

 

If you are looking 5 years old do be aware of the dreaded gearbox judder in the early examples of the current shaped cab cause by a variety of design failings worst of which was too high a gear ratio for reverse gear. This does not seem to be an issue for 2009 van onwards but it pays to reverse slowly uphill on your test drive whatever you are buying.

 

The newer vans do drive a bit nicer than the previous model but on balance I would opt for one of the last of the old chassis - 06, 56 maybe even 07 - as it was well sorted and pretty durable by then. If you can find one with cruise control and can air con even better. Cruise can be after fitted at a sensible cost whereas air con is very expensive and probably not as effective as original fitted.

 

These are purely personal views - others may well differ!

 

The Neuvo EK is the one that has our referred layout (notwithstanding what has been said about there being no perfect van). This is already a compromise, as others have alluded to, as we would both have loved something approaching the outside size of a T5 with the inside space of a six berth :-D . I guess most folk would want that, but the inside of a T5 is way too small for us and we only need a two berth with two belted seats.

 

I picked up the "judder" issue from posts on other threads here but thanks for the reminder about that and the need to look at the wider comfort items available on any potential purchase.

 

Cheers

[PJay]

Have to agree with Tracker. If buying second hand go for the pre -facelift ie no later than 56.

We have an 06 fiat, and after 40,000 plus miles still going strong, been very happy with ours, I would say , that even though you only need two berth, consider a slightly bigger van, for the extra space, it allows . Don't forget it does rain on holidays (even in Spain) so the extra space is useful . I agree that end kitchen is best,(IMO) as it keeps the cooking to one end , and with a window behind open (or an extractor fan) keeps the smells at one end , and keeps the cook out of the way from the rest of the space.

PJay

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hi Ash'

If looking at a used/older A/S Nuevo, it'd be worth being aware that some had roof leak issues. So maybe *Google "autosleeper Nuevo roof leaks" and check out which age/models were affected?)...although by now I would like to think that they should all be sorted. ;-)

(*although having just googled it myself, it appears that the windows also caused problems for some...)

 

Some years ago('08?), whilst at A/S's Willersey workshop, I got chatting with a chap, from Scotland coincidentally, and he was having endless problems with leaks on his nearly new Nuevo and after numerous visits to his "local" dealer, they had sent him down to A/S HQ, as they reckoned that the job was just too big for them to sort..I seem to recall him being told that, due to water damage, they needed to replace the whole of his ceiling lining!(he wasn't happy as I think he was expecting a "while u wait" job).

 

Another thing, with rear kitchen layouts, check the rear axle loadings/payload..