bowser Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Any suggestions for makers of Small Motorhomes or Panal Van conversions that are not Fiat/Citroen/Renault based as they only offer disel engines. I think I have lucked out but I idealy am looking for a 6 meter ish van, a couple of years old. Trouble is I need to be able to take it into london and with the proposals on the table looks like any disel bar Euro 6 (so brand new) is going to be a problem, and as much as I wish it wasnt going to happen it, it is, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Some of the Japanese Imports have petrol engines, but they are not 'small' engines, as most are automatics, BUT they could be converted to run on LPG, and some already have. I think that going 'Large Petrol Engine' and running on LPG is the 'way to go' as WHO can afford a 'Newer' van every time a 'latest' Euro 3,4,5,6,7 comes along ? Mine is Euro 5, which I thought would be ok for years and years, but obviously NOT. Ray Example: http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/mazda/bongo/1999-mazda-bongo-lpg-dorchester-mfpa-8abee29c474360f2014763acf9866729/makemodel/make/mazda/model/bongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Size of engine is not an issue, but I am looking for somthing bigger than below, I have a 2003 VW T4 right now, but want somthing a bit bigger with a toilet and shower, been looking at lwb globecar/adria/wildax etc, and also the burstner t645 but anything with a euro6 engine is going to be brand new, just wondered if anyone could think of similar sized petrol engined, I am looking but no luck, trouble is there are hundreds of manufacturers out there. It looks like most of the inner london councils are looking at charges, along with Bristol and Brum, ok I dont go to brum but the others I do, and I want some future proofing so Petrol with LPG conversion looks like the way to go, if I can find somthing. Shame we are not in the states as the standard Fiat/citroen/peugot/Dodge is offered with a petrol V6 over there. Rayjsj - 2014-08-07 2:38 PM Some of the Japanese Imports have petrol engines, but they are not 'small' engines, as most are automatics, BUT they could be converted to run on LPG, and some already have. I think that going 'Large Petrol Engine' and running on LPG is the 'way to go' as WHO can afford a 'Newer' van every time a 'latest' Euro 3,4,5,6,7 comes along ? Mine is Euro 5, which I thought would be ok for years and years, but obviously NOT. Ray Example: http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/mazda/bongo/1999-mazda-bongo-lpg-dorchester-mfpa-8abee29c474360f2014763acf9866729/makemodel/make/mazda/model/bongo >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Using Autotrader and limiting choice to petrol and under 6 metres, with a proper washroom, I think you have to go back to 2002 for petrol Autosleeper Symbol which sizewise and equipment-wise would fit the bill. There are smaller petrol campers based on the Doblo etc but not with a washroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 bowser - 2014-08-07 1:25 PM Any suggestions for makers of Small Motorhomes or Panal Van conversions that are not Fiat/Citroen/Renault based as they only offer disel engines. I think I have lucked out but I idealy am looking for a 6 meter ish van, a couple of years old. Trouble is I need to be able to take it into london and with the proposals on the table looks like any disel bar Euro 6 (so brand new) is going to be a problem, and as much as I wish it wasnt going to happen it, it is, How many times do you need to take the van into London and to pay the proposed £10 excess for Euro 5 vehicles and below? If available (which must be doubtful except for Japanese imports) a petrol engine on a 6m van would be very expensive to run in terms of mpg and, if ever you were to take the van abroad, unleaded fuel is very expensive. Are you sacrificing these disadvantages for a few trips into London a year or are you a regular visitor? Will the number of £10 excess charges to be levied in respect of older diesels amount to more than the costs that you might incur running a van on unleaded fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Staying outside the LEZ (more or less the M25) is easy unless you live in that area and there are relatively few campsites, so I've settled for that. If we want to go to London we take the train and use a hotel. But other cities are doing it too, so it is beginning to look like we motorhomers will become a persecuted minority, because we want to use our diesel van chassis for many years rather than wear them out quickly as delivery vehicles. Hopefully this paranoid (but maybe income-oriented) trend towards regarding diesels as deadly carcinogen generators will not take off across all nations and all town or we'll be buggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 As a Londoner with no intention of moving and having recently bought a Euro 5 van. When exactly Wil.it not be compliant please :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-08-08 11:51 AM As a Londoner with no intention of moving and having recently bought a Euro 5 van. When exactly Wil.it not be compliant please :-S This is unlikely t happen before 2020. Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenertransport/10996836/Diesel-drivers-to-be-penalised-in-drive-to-cut-air-pollution.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Mike88 - 2014-08-08 12:36 PM JudgeMental - 2014-08-08 11:51 AM As a Londoner with no intention of moving and having recently bought a Euro 5 van. When exactly Wil.it not be compliant please :-S This is unlikely t happen before 2020. Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenertransport/10996836/Diesel-drivers-to-be-penalised-in-drive-to-cut-air-pollution.html Ah OK thanks..currently in Italy with unreliable internet access...... No worries then, will probably have had two or three new vans by then! all bring well :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Really! only if Boris is still in, others have indicated that they would implement it far quicker, along with at least Camden and Islington councils, and local authorities already have the powers to implement it without further legislation, What do you think Oxford who already hate cars will do? Bristol and Brum have also stated that they are looking at it as well. I have had my current van for 7 years and my previous one for 12, to be honest I really don't think the diesel hate thing is going away anytime soon, the government is being taken to court over air quality, and they have never acted reasonably in the past. However as I am finding there is nothing petrol engined out there at all, unless you go very old or very large or both If I could find something petrol then an lpg conversion would be the way to go, Ideal vehicle the Winnebago travato 59g, V6 Petrol auto, thats the one for me, damn its brand new and states only!!!! Mike88 - 2014-08-08 12:36 PM JudgeMental - 2014-08-08 11:51 AM As a Londoner with no intention of moving and having recently bought a Euro 5 van. When exactly Wil.it not be compliant please :-S This is unlikely t happen before 2020. Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenertransport/10996836/Diesel-drivers-to-be-penalised-in-drive-to-cut-air-pollution.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 " Hopefully this paranoid (but maybe income-oriented) trend towards regarding diesels as deadly carcinogen generators will not take off across all nations and all town or we'll be buggered. " As this "paranoia" is as a result of EU air quality directives, it is already widespread - Low Emission Zones are widely found in Germany and Italy, for example. The UK is just slow at getting it's act together and is facing action by the EU for widespread failure to meet the standards in many areas - look up the emissions related speed limits being proposed on the M1 around Chesterfield,for example. The link between diesel vehicle emissions ( particularly in built-up areas) and respiritory and cardio-vascular health problems is un-equivocal and widely reported. Try searching for information on the effects on health "PM10" and "PM1" particulate matter and be suprised that more draconian measures have not already been imposed - be assured that more draconian measures to both clean up diesel emissions and disuade use of diesel vehicles will be on the way here (probably after the next election at a guess - I would expect substantial increases in RFL charges for diesel cars as a first step). When I was looking for my first MH, the newest petrol engined van I could find was 2002 built. As an LPG converted car user, I would have prefered to go down that route with the van, but IIRC I only found one 2002 petrol van advertised & the layout didn't suit. Interestingly, in the Fiat Ducato handbook for the 2003 CI Carioca I ended up buying (2 litre JTD) there were the specifications for a factory supplied LPG fuelled option. As I have not seen one of these over here, I suspect it was for the Italian market only, where LPG is apparently widely used. As the Ducato is now sold as the Dodge Ram in the US, with a 3.5 litre V6 petrol engine & auto box, maybe this could form the basis for an LPG variant in Europe - I would be interested in going down that route for my next van, as a Euro 6 diesel will be heavier, more costly to buy and run (Adblue) and more complex than the current Euro 5 diesels - and that is before the next round od reductions that will inevitably come with Euro 7 as some other "unintended consequence" of Euro 6 is discovered (PM10s came to light after Euro 4 changes, which led to DPFs in Euro 5. Now PM1s have come to light as a result of ash from DPFs, hence Adblue requirements in Euro 6.). As LPG vehicles don't produce particulates or unburned hydrocarbons, I would expect a resurgence of interest in them as the screw is turned on diesels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We can only hope that demand will produce a supply of largish motorhomes with Large LPG converted petrol Engines. However, I suspect not for a while, meanwhile what is going to happen to Goods transportation ? you cannot simply ask ALL transport companies to ditch their 'Just Purchased' Euro 5 fleet and replace it with Euro 6 (or 7/8). The same goes for Taxi drivers. Strange, and it's only a couple of years ago that Vauxhall stopped producing and offering LPG conversions from new, complete with Vauxhall warranty, their reason ? lack of demand, and new 'fuel efficient' diesels are FAR better !! (Ahem !) No they were not ! This all has the 'Smell' of PPI Mis-selling to me. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm planning on sticking a Essex V6 in the works Tranny in the new year with an auto box B-).............. If it proves reliable then I might transfer it into the camper :D.............. Its an option us folk with older vehicles have ;-)........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Well they need to do something in London..air quality atrocious and breaks EU standards frequently in some areas. More interested in general health then crappy old campers....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think the answer is an historic land rover with a carawagon conversion, no tax, no MOT and LEZ exempt! (Some folk disguise modern defenders as historic vehicles to avoid road tax) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-08-09 8:35 AM Well they need to do something in London..air quality atrocious and breaks EU standards frequently in some areas. More interested in general health then crappy old campers....... Those crappy old euro 5 vehicles eh Eddie? :D...............Seems to me if the powers that be were really concerned about air quality they'd promote petrol/lpg engines ;-)....................but that'll mean they'll lose the diesel cash cow (lol)................ Dunno why anyone would want to live in the smoke :-S....................Must like smog and drinking their own pee :D............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-08-09 9:54 AM ...............Seems to me if the powers that be were really concerned about air quality they'd promote petrol/lpg engines No. Dave, there really is only one way to go.........and this is it:- http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-2014-the-year-of-the-fuel-cell-car/ This is what my grandchildren ( and maybe even my children, in a few years time) Should ( perhaps will) be driving around in! Trouble is, 'Big Oil' is likely to do all that it can to delay/scupper it! Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMS Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Our friend in Freiburg Germany has an old petrol polluting original VW Beatle convertible well over 25 years old and as such there are no restrictions on the use of her car! No restrictions were she can drive or MOT type controls for pollution! So the answer is clear if you wish to visit Germany dust of the old bangers and use them so avoiding any controls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Having driven a petrol electric hybrid car for almost three years and over 30,000 miles without it ever missing a beat or ever doing less than 50 mpg I firmly believe this is the way to go. But then it was made in Japan not Italy! A commercial vehicle has no need of the power and speed of a car and has much more carrying capacity per kg unladen weight so why not bigger batteries and smaller engines? Or maybe full electric propulsion with a small petrol fired engine as a generator as what few that are made are currently called range extenders? And do away with dirty diesel and misguided political expedients to engineering problems for good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Tracker - 2014-08-09 8:46 PM Having driven a petrol electric hybrid car for almost three years and over 30,000 miles without it ever missing a beat or ever doing less than 50 mpg I firmly believe this is the way to go. But then it was made in Japan not Italy! A commercial vehicle has no need of the power and speed of a car and has much more carrying capacity per kg unladen weight so why not bigger batteries and smaller engines? Or maybe full electric propulsion with a small petrol fired engine as a generator as what few that are made are currently called range extenders? And do away with dirty diesel and misguided political expedients to engineering problems for good? It always strikes me that a van with 30hp electric moters in all four wheels and a small gas turbine is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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