Even on a Hymer! ;-)

[Robinhood]

....though I've posted before on here about my perception of the lowering of build quality of Hymers, this isn't posted in any feeling of Schadenfreude.

 

Whilst my own Hobby is, IMO, pretty well built, (and I've recently posted that in overall base and conversion terms, it has probably lasted better than any of my previous coachbulits) it has not been without some annoying little defects (and an unsold Hobby van I looked at some time ago had what I considered to be dire build quality issues).

 

Anyway, living in the middle of what has rapidly become a "motorhome dealer triangle", I am wont to visit the various premises as I pass, to do a bit of tyre-kicking and look at anything new that has arrived.

 

I'm particularly interested at the moment as the 2015 models are starting to arrive, and it's interesting to see what changes are apparent.

 

So, as I was passing a local Hymer dealer, (no names, no pack drill ;-) ) I went in for a wander, and ended up looking at a Mercedes Hymer ML-T (much the same layout as my current 'van, and obviously newly arrived).

 

Now, we've had very little rain for some time, but it had bucketed down just before I arrived, and was still raining on and off. As I was "inspecting" the 'van, I saw some marks around the wallboard/seal join at the bottom of the dinette window and immediately registered it as adhesive overrun, and a confirmation of my perception of "dumbing down" on the build quality.

 

I then noticed, however, that net curtains were stained, and looking even closer, there was a great pool of water sitting on the inside of the window frame, (and running downwards) and it was being rapidly replenished by drips from above the window.

 

Now the windows are of the framed type (Seitz S7, I think), and the window in question was sitting right beneath the natural run-off point from the roof. There was a steady stream of water running off the roof, onto the upper exterior of the frame, and straight inside!

 

I advised the dealer staff of the issue, and it was inspected straight away - the conclusion being a suspicion that the exterior frame wasn't sealed at all (it certainly wasn't sealed sufficiently). There appeared to be minor water damage (mainly staining) below the window, but anything else would not be evident until the frame was removed.

 

TBF, arrangements were being made for the vehicle to go into the workshop as I left. It was new, and had been in stock for less than ten days.

 

Whilst I suspect this was a one-off (something that can happen from all converters), anyone with a newish Hymer with these windows may wish to keep an eye on them, especially if the run-off point from the roof is directly above.

 

 

[starvin marvin]

So generally how was Lowdham Leisureworld Gunthorpe?

[Robinhood]

starvin marvin - 2014-08-08 2:26 PM

 

So generally how was Lowdham Leisureworld Gunthorpe?

 

Who they? ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Just curious...Would they still be making these vehicles where they always have?...have haven't shifted production somewhere else by any chance?...

[Robinhood]

...I know Carthago have move a lot of their production to Slovenia, but, AFAIK, Hymer (and other Hymer Group brands) still largely build at their traditional bases.

 

I have to add that the general build quality of this and last year's Hymer vehicles seems to have improved quite a bit since I first commented negatively a few years ago. As of late I've seen little evidence of things not being screwed together well (when I last changed my 'van and was looking at all alternatives, I came cross numerous examples of ill-fitting trim and doors that wouldn't close, far too often to put things down as a one-off).

 

I quite like the current Exsis-I and Exsis-T range, (and might consider the latter for my next change); the only major criticism I'd raise after my "investigations" is that the soft-furnishings don't seem to be standing up well to showroom visitors. :-(

[Guest pelmetman]

Progress eh? :D..................

 

Looks like build quality hasn't improved much in the last 20 + years...............indeed they appear worse *-).................

 

Makes those old GRP Autosleepers look like even more of a bargain :D.............

 

 

[gypsymu]

You are right about the soft furnishings! Our van has the cream coloured upholstery and it came with an ink stain on it. They sent a replacement which was even worse and we can't seem to get it replaced at the dealers. It is impossible to keep clean. The van is very narrow between the dinette and the kitchen so it is constantly being rubbed as you pass. I have bought loose covers for the front seats which are easily washed but that doesn't solve the dinette seats.

The van is good apart from the upholstery but we would think twice about another Hymer if buying again.

[Guest Peter James]

gypsymu - 2014-08-09 11:02 PM

 

You are right about the soft furnishings! Our van has the cream coloured upholstery and it came with an ink stain on it. They sent a replacement which was even worse and we can't seem to get it replaced at the dealers. It is impossible to keep clean. The van is very narrow between the dinette and the kitchen so it is constantly being rubbed as you pass. I have bought loose covers for the front seats which are easily washed but that doesn't solve the dinette seats.

The van is good apart from the upholstery but we would think twice about another Hymer if buying again.

 

Good point. I was in Lowdham yesterday afternoon and saw it. Looks luxurious when its new, but you have to think of what its going to look like when its been really used a bit. It was already starting to look a bit mucky in the showroom. Interested in one with a good sized garage so also looked at a Swift 484 with a more practical (for me) strong looking grey fabric. Brought my friend over to look at it, only to find it locked and a sold ticket in the windscreen in the few minutes I had been away :-(

But its good to see not everyone is against British vans :-D

[Retread24800]

 Any body who thinks a cream or white interior will stay pristine for more than 10 minutes is living on another planet. My generally grey/blue upholstery is still in good nick after 21 years and the cushions are still nice and firm.

But its good to see that Hymer group products are still the benchmark against which all others are judged.

[Guest Peter James]

Retread24800 - 2014-08-10 9:21 AM

 

 Hymer group products are still the benchmark against which all others are judged.

 

Perhaps it was when yours was made.

But I heard a story that about 20 years ago, the Board of Mercedes Benz had a meeting where they decided their products were over engineered, and future emphasis would be on increasing production to drive up profits, because there was more profit to be made in the mass market, than a niche market. Now I am seeing more rusty Mercedes vans that Fiats, which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.

Is it possible Hymer has made the same business decision?

 

Their new upholstery seems designed to sell, rather than to last :-S

 

[Muswell]

The rust problem with MB commercials is well known, and they also had a problem with the cars for about 10 years from mid 90s.

[StuartO]

I suppose it would be helpful to have a definition of build quality because it isn't very precise, although it a factor in what we regard as the quality of a poduct. It's distinctly subjective.

 

Our first Hymer was a 1990 B694 which I always regarded as built very robustly. It had steel rollover bars in the bodywork and Hymer used to advertise the stregth of the vehicles by showing a picture of one S700 parked on top of another one. The fastenings were all good, nothing flimsy anywhere and the plumbing and wiring systems were top class.

 

When we bought our 2006 Hymer, a B674, the supplier said "They're not built like your old one you know" and certainly the steel rollover bars have gone. But we only had a couple of minor warranty issues - a disfunctional electrical switch and something elsle I can't remember. There was the suggestion of an area of bubbling on the habitation door, as if the spreading of adhesive had been incomplete, but it wasn't worth asking for a new door for.

 

Over time we discovered some weaknesses in build quality. For example the bed frames, aluminium structure, were poorly secured to the bodywork and furniture, with some fastenings missing and the use of half inch self tappers to fix a supporting plastic flange to the internal wall. The latter was only thin plywood stuck onto polystyrene so a longer screw wouldn't have been more secure. The problem was the lack of strengthening in the wall's fixing point to take the load. I had to contrive an alternative way to hold the bed frames in position after they both collapsed on us.

 

Otherwise we've be OK and the plubming and wiring systems seen to be well up to the old standard. We had a recall on the Truma heater, but that wasn't Hymer's fault. The gearbox failed within 3 months too but Fiat replaced that. And a helical road spring broke out of the blue, so we had to replace that.

 

But overall we are well pleased. The design is stylish and the layout works very well. Especially the swing-wall shower room, which i think is very clever. Plenty of locker space, an excellent bedroom, complete with bedside table and a nice place to fix a TV, so tea in bed in the mornings is a delight.

 

The compromise is in the kitchen/lounge area, where it's a bit cramped compared with the old B674, but then its a shorter vehicle. But we manage well enough. Many's the time we've toyed with the idea of changing but after eight years we've just replaced all the tyres with a view to aother eight.

 

I still think Hymers are very good motorhomes. I read in the MH press that Hymer had build quality problems around 2008 but have got a grip since then; maybe the build quality was starting to slip in 2006 but it certainly wasn't disastrous.

 

The phase after Brownhills took over of HymerUK was a low patch for UK owners, and was why I went abroad to buy mine, but the selection of appointed dealers we have now should be better.

[Guest Peter James]

StuartO - 2014-08-10 11:41 AM

Over time we discovered some weaknesses in build quality. For example the bed frames, aluminium structure, were poorly secured to the bodywork and furniture, with some fastenings missing and the use of half inch self tappers to fix a supporting plastic flange to the internal wall. The latter was only thin plywood stuck onto polystyrene so a longer screw wouldn't have been more secure. The problem was the lack of strengthening in the wall's fixing point to take the load. I had to contrive an alternative way to hold the bed frames in position after they both collapsed on us.

 

I was impressed with the available payload with the new 3.5 tonne Hymer, especially with the amount of space and goodies inside. So I suppose they have had to shave off weight - and things like the steel rollover bars are gone.

Then again if you want a thin and flimsy one you don't have to pay Hymer's prices.......

[gypsymu]

FYI our last Hymer was cream and pale blue upholstery which was good as new when we sold it after 7 years and was only sold because of lack of payload!

It is the fabric which is wrong on the new Exsis not the colour.

[Billggski]

There has been a varying quality of vehicle build over the years. Mercedes had the issue when merged with Chrysler and the bean counters took over.

The story is hat Chrysler queried why Mercedes seats cost ten times more than theirs.

They sent the accountants in to see if They were paying too much compared to Chrysler. The answer came back " no it's you that are paying too much for your seats".

[yeti]

I have a Hymer Exsis-I 562 0n a Transit,I bought it new in 2010 from Madisons/Brownhills at Kirkham just before they closed. I have had to replace the nearside light unit (design fault caused crazing on the glass)

There are a few minor design faults mainly the waste drain tap is in a very difficult place behind the rear wheel well toward the inside of the vehicle,involving lying down to open and close it,then finding it difficult to get up without assistance. The gas cupboard is just big enough for 2x 6Kg Gaslow bottles,there is a space of about 10 inches it could have moved up to accommodate the larger bottles. The leisure battery is a Gel type and under the passenger seat. They probably used a Gel so that they can turn it on its side to fit it. I do sometimes think they build the conversions around the domestic appliances and don't consider servicing or replacing them.

However having p/xd a 2008 Autotrail on a load of junk Fiat X 250, the Tranny base is a joy even considering the base was built in Fords Turkish factory!

Prior to this I had a 1992 Hymer b544.

[Colin Leake]

Peter James - 2014-08-10 10:38 AM

 

Retread24800 - 2014-08-10 9:21 AM

 

 Hymer group products are still the benchmark against which all others are judged.

 

Perhaps it was when yours was made.

But I heard a story that about 20 years ago, the Board of Mercedes Benz had a meeting where they decided their products were over engineered, and future emphasis would be on increasing production to drive up profits, because there was more profit to be made in the mass market, than a niche market. Now I am seeing more rusty Mercedes vans that Fiats, which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.

Is it possible Hymer has made the same business decision?

 

Their new upholstery seems designed to sell, rather than to last :-S

 

We are looking at van conversions and initially had our eyes set on the RS job, pricey but it ain't half nice. The rust problem has however put us off anything on a Merc Sprinter. We had a good look round a less than four year old RS on site last month and the dreaded tin worms had already taken up residence round the windscreen the back doors and near the rear wheel arches. As I understand it the Sprinter does not use galvanised steel while the Faits do.

[lennyhb]

As Robin says hopefully just a one off a bit unusual for Hymer .

 

I don’t really get the ML-T a budget Exsis body on a Merc chassis obviously aimed at the badge snobs who like chassis that rust. For 10,000 Euro less you can have a much better riding Al-Ko chassis with a nice Fiat cab, or for the same money an “A Class” version.

 

As for the quality thing our last caravan was a Hobby build quality not bad far better than previous UK built caravans we have had only thing that let it down was the quality of the upholstery, not bad for the cheapest German made caravans.

 

We are now on our second Motorhome both Hymer’s build quality far better than the Hobby. One of the reasons going for Hymer was after visiting Dusseldorf the last weekend of the show where thousands of people had trampled through the vans the Hymers appeared to be in much better condition with less bits damaged than most of the other vans.

Our first van was a low profile SL well screwed together with good quality materials. After over 5 years of use still in very good condition the part leatherette upholstery was as new.

 

The Exsis is even better screwed together, although the woodwork is not of the same quality as the SL, but it is a budget van (for a Hymer). For the upholstery we paid €400 extra for the Salerno Upholstery (I think it’s a standard option on UK vans) as we didn’t like the standard options, so far it’s wearing well if it does get shabby we will get it re-upholstered in full leather for about €1500, cheaper than the €2500 option when new.

 

What we do like about Hymer’s is you get the safety options as standard and pay extra for the frills tends to be the other way round on UK vans.

 

Don’t see a problem with gas bottles all Hymer lockers take 2 x 11 kg (21Lt) bottles we have in our van 2 x 13 kg (26Lt) Alugas refillables.

 

[Robinhood]

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 2:13 PM

 

As Robin says hopefully just a one off a bit unusual for Hymer .....

 

 

.....or maybe not......... 8-)

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-212737-hymer-x250-rear-garage-model-owners.html

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

Robinhood - 2014-08-12 7:11 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 2:13 PM

 

As Robin says hopefully just a one off a bit unusual for Hymer .....

 

 

.....or maybe not......... 8-)

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-212737-hymer-x250-rear-garage-model-owners.html

 

 

So thats 2 out out of how many from the largest manufacturer in Europe :D

 

From reports I've seen of a UK manufacturer beginning with "A" nearly every van comes with leaky windows & spongy floors. :D

 

I would rather take my chances with a Hymer the odds are in my favor.

(lol)

[Guest Peter James]

I don't understand the British obsession with knocking their own industries, because I haven't seen it in any other country.

The largest concentration of horsemeat was found in Aldi 'Beefburgers' wheras Tesco got all the flack for it.

Tesco is owned by shareholders, and the last 2 Chief Executives worked their way up from shelf stackers, wheras Aldi & Lidl were inherited by the richest men in Germany. And yet Tesco is portrayed as the corporate monolith.

Rover cars were another example........

We knock our own industries till they go bust, now we have an economy based on debt, money printing and rising house prices...

[Guest Peter James]

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 7:34 PM

 

Robinhood - 2014-08-12 7:11 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 2:13 PM

 

As Robin says hopefully just a one off a bit unusual for Hymer .....

 

 

.....or maybe not......... 8-)

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-212737-hymer-x250-rear-garage-model-owners.html

 

 

So thats 2 out out of how many from the largest manufacturer in Europe :D

 

From reports I've seen of a UK manufacturer beginning with "A" nearly every van comes with leaky windows & spongy floors. :D

 

I would rather take my chances with a Hymer the odds are in my favor.

(lol)

 

Since most of the contributors here are from Britain, shouldn't you look at the 'odds' based on the proportion of Hymers in Britain, compared to British makes?

Even then, if Hymer are doing a Mercedes Benz and deciding to maximise volume and profit rather than quality, doesn't that mean that defects are more likely o show up in the future rather than the past?

[lennyhb]

Peter James - 2014-08-13 9:02 AM

 

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 7:34 PM

 

Robinhood - 2014-08-12 7:11 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-08-12 2:13 PM

 

As Robin says hopefully just a one off a bit unusual for Hymer .....

 

 

.....or maybe not......... 8-)

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-212737-hymer-x250-rear-garage-model-owners.html

 

 

So thats 2 out out of how many from the largest manufacturer in Europe :D

 

From reports I've seen of a UK manufacturer beginning with "A" nearly every van comes with leaky windows & spongy floors. :D

 

I would rather take my chances with a Hymer the odds are in my favor.

(lol)

 

Since most of the contributors here are from Britain, shouldn't you look at the 'odds' based on the proportion of Hymers in Britain, compared to British makes?

Even then, if Hymer are doing a Mercedes Benz and deciding to maximise volume and profit rather than quality, doesn't that mean that defects are more likely o show up in the future rather than the past?

 

To get an overall picture of quality surely you need to analyze the total number of faulty units against the total number produced. Using your logic, I brought my Hymer in Belgium therefore I should only compare Belgium sales verses faults on Belgium sold vans, no logic in that as they are all made in Germany and only a small portion of production sold in Belgium.

 

Generally, I do not knock British products, but in this industry they have an appalling record of poor quality and when I am spending 60 or 70 grand of my hard earned savings I will not take the risk, especially as depreciation is far lower on Hymers than UK made vans, also I prefer continental layouts they suit our style of use far better.

 

And where can I buy a new British "A Class"? (lol)

[Guest Peter James]

lennyhb - 2014-08-13 11:34 AM

Using your logic, I brought my Hymer in Belgium therefore I should only compare Belgium sales verses faults on Belgium sold vans,

 

 

*-) err No.

The logic is based on the proportion of people posting on this forum who own other makes of vans, compared to the proportion posting on this forum who own Hymer vans. When the vans come out of the same factory what difference does it make in which country the sale occurred?

But if Hymer have only recently followed Mercedes vans in relaxing build quality to pursue volume and profit, the ratio of faults won't have followed through yet anyway.

[Billggski]

Build quality/resilience could be related to weight.

The heavier the base chassis becomes because of safety concerns and extra gizmos, the less there is for the motorhome manufacturer to play with, especially if they want to get under the magic 3.5T.