bluetoaster Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi all, Has anybody been charged with a London Emission Zone charge of £250, Or if appealed what was your excuse? and did they waiver the charge? I was on my way to Dover on 25th July to tour France for 2 weeks and accidently turned off at A1 to London instead of the M25, my SatNav sent me there. :'( I got back on to the A10 to enfield to get back on the M25, as soon as I saw the Emmision Zone sign. I'm not clued up with the Emmision Zones around London I travelled from Lancaster. I came home last night and found a letter for this charge. :$ Regards BlueToaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 ....it is possible to challenge the charge, and the details are here: https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/penalty-charges/challenge-a-penalty-charge-notice#on-this-page-1 Since you don't appear to meet any of the 6 formal grounds for appeal. the only path would be via "Mitigation and discretion" ....and since this is underpinned by the following wording, your chances would appear to be slim (if not non-existent). Sorry. :-( If none of the six grounds are applicable, you can still make a representation to us. If you explain your circumstances, we will consider any mitigating circumstances and use our discretion in reaching a decision. We will not accept the following explanations: •Forgetting to pay the charge, without any mitigating circumstances for doing so •Not knowing how to pay the charge •Not meaning to enter the LEZ or entering it as a result of getting lost •Disapproval of the LEZ scheme •Not knowing about the LEZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetoaster Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Thank You for the reply, I will just have to make a representation and try and word it and explain what had happened, Try and Plead with them thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Be careful. If you don't pay within 14 days they double the penalty. I don't know whether time spent appealing comes out of that 14 days. But, according to the web-site they issue a warning, not a penalty, the first time a non-compliant vehicle enters the LEZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Muswell - 2014-08-08 6:32 PM But, according to the web-site they issue a warning, not a penalty, the first time a non-compliant vehicle enters the LEZ. .....what it actually says is We will issue a warning letter to the registered keeper of a vehicle that doesn't meet emissions standards on the first occasion it's observed in the Low Emission Zone (LEZ). This is provided it's not exempt, has registered for a 100% discount or has paid the daily charge. Now I think that text needs the attention of The Plain English Campaign, but if you deconstruct it carefully, I think it indicates that you will be issued with a warning letter only if you have paid the daily charge, but were also found to be non-compliant. This doesn't, of course, make sense :-(. The FTA update here, however, indicates that (if this was the first time of entering) a warning letter rather than a PCN should have been issued. http://www.fta.co.uk/policy_and_compliance/road/urban_operations/london_lez_changes_period_of_grace.html It may provide grounds for a query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We will not accept the following explanations: Not meaning to enter the LEZ or entering it as a result of getting lost Looks like you're stuffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 ....I decided to post this separately, so it didn't get lost as an edit. On further perusal, it would appear that the "warning letter" doesn't let you off completely - it simply extends to 28 days (for the first time only) the period within which you can pay the appropriate charge (which is £100/£200 depending on whether above or below 3.5 tonne. The penalty charge will be £250/£500 on the same weight basis if paid within 14 days, or £500/£1000 if not. It would appear the best you can hope for is £100/£200 on the basis that you should have had a warning letter. (if the conditions for such apply). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-08-08 6:50 PM Muswell - 2014-08-08 6:32 PM But, according to the web-site they issue a warning, not a penalty, the first time a non-compliant vehicle enters the LEZ. .....what it actually says is We will issue a warning letter to the registered keeper of a vehicle that doesn't meet emissions standards on the first occasion it's observed in the Low Emission Zone (LEZ). This is provided it's not exempt, has registered for a 100% discount or has paid the daily charge. Now I think that text needs the attention of The Plain English Campaign, but if you deconstruct it carefully, I think it indicates that you will be issued with a warning letter only if you have paid the daily charge, but were also found to be non-compliant. This doesn't, of course, make sense :-(. The FTA update here, however, indicates that (if this was the first time of entering) a warning letter rather than a PCN should have been issued. http://www.fta.co.uk/policy_and_compliance/road/urban_operations/london_lez_changes_period_of_grace.html It may provide grounds for a query. The LEZ is certainly not clear. I read it that because there is a comma after "it's not exempt" rather than and a warning would be sent in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-08-08 7:04 PM ....I decided to post this separately, so it didn't get lost as an edit. On further perusal, it would appear that the "warning letter" doesn't let you off completely - it simply extends to 28 days (for the first time only) the period within which you can pay the appropriate charge (which is £100/£200 depending on whether above or below 3.5 tonne. The penalty charge will be £250/£500 on the same weight basis if paid within 14 days, or £500/£1000 if not. It would appear the best you can hope for is £100/£200 on the basis that you should have had a warning letter. (if the conditions for such apply). I read that to mean that after the warning you have 28 days to carry on driving in the LEZ before you get a PCN. (?) :-( PS These people think the samehttp://www.futurevehicleleasing.co.uk/blog/challenging-lez-penalty-charges.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Muswell - 2014-08-08 9:06 PM I read that to mean that after the warning you have 28 days to carry on driving in the LEZ before you get a PCN. (?) :-( PS These people think the samehttp://www.futurevehicleleasing.co.uk/blog/challenging-lez-penalty-charges.html In retrospect, I think you're correct (I jumped in error from one clause to another). The TFL wording on this, at least, seems reasonably clear, viz: If the same vehicle is driven in the LEZ within a 28-day period from the date of issue of the warning letter, a penalty charge will not be incurred. After this 28-day period, you risk being issued a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) if you drive in the zone and your vehicle still doesn't meet the required emissions standard. In the event of a change of keeper after the warning letter has been issued, any new keeper will not be issued a further warning letter. If the 28-day period after the warning letter has expired, a PCN will be issued to the registered keeper at the time of the contravention. I can find no evidence that any standard charge is leviable for any of this first and one time 28 day exemption, and the above wording covers the fact that a PCN will not be issued in this period. Hence, if the OP has not had the warning letter and he is sure any previous owners, if any, haven't, then I think he should challenge the issuing of a PCN without prior issue of a warning notice. (Unless, when he re-reads he finds it is a warning notice, flagging the potential for a future PCN for continued entry.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If I get lost any where near the LEZ zone, I'll obscure my numberplate to make it unreadable, £1000 fine for getting lost !!! talk about criminal... and i'm not talking about the op. And if Boris has his way, we will all have to scrap our vans upto Euro 6 to drive through the Zone. I am now busy in my 'Shed' designing a 'James Bond' style rotating numberplate device. >:-( Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 About 3 weeks ago I inadvertently ended up on Austrian toll road due to sat nag..awaiting post with interest when we return from Italy :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 My daughter recently moved to London, and we "volunteered" to bring her some of her bulkier possessions - bike, guitars etc. Initially, we thought we might use the van, an '07 A/S Inca on a 2006 Boxer 2.8 HDi; when I checked it on the LEZ site, I was pleasantly surprised to find it was compliant. (In the end, we used the car and a hotel - the hotel was great, the drive was horrendous, 12 hours each way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-08-08 10:25 PM About 3 weeks ago I inadvertently ended up on Austrian toll road due to sat nag..awaiting post with interest when we return from Italy :-S I heard on Radio 4 recently, that English Councils have written off many £millions in fines incurred by foreign registered vehicles because they are uneconomic to collect. In particular Polish registered vehicles, which are supposed to re register in Britain after they have been here for 6 months, but many don't so are completely off the radar. This is a huge problem for the British Haulage industry, because they have all these London charges, Parking Charges, Speeding charges, etc etc etc that their foreign registered competitors simply laugh at and ignore. (on top of higher diesel prices when their competitors bring their own diesel in huge tanks) When I was driving a UK registered lorry in Italy 20 years ago, I used to drop the semi trailer and take the tractor unit into city centres to visit them, incurred many parking tickets, ignored them all, and never heard anything further. So there is hope. But I don't know if thats the case for Austrian tickets issued today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 My local florist has flowers delivered from The Netherlands in a huge artic. The florist told me that the driver never worried about the fines until they impounded the truck, complete with all his stock ....which then began to wilt :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Muswell - 2014-08-09 9:54 AM My local florist has flowers delivered from The Netherlands in a huge artic. The florist told me that the driver never worried about the fines until they impounded the truck, complete with all his stock ....which then began to wilt :-D Well yes, if you do a regular delivery to the same place a the same time and always get a ticket which you ignore I suppose you are setting yourself up as a very easy target. But the vast amount of fines being written off show thats the exception, rather than the rule. In the move to unmanned toll booths at the Dartford Tunnel they even say on their website that no toll collection is 100% effective. Which is probably untrue as there was no way of avoiding the toll booths when they were manned. The move to automated collection makes it easier for the council, but it makes it easier for foreign registered vehicles to laugh at the tolls and fines British registered vehicles have to pay This shows to me one of the flaws in the English system of local government. Collecting fines from outsiders is popular with local people because it reduces their council tax and gets the likes of Boris elected. As a result a three bed semi in some deprived areas of Britain costs more in Council Tax than Buckingham Palace - the highest band in Westminster. Which is obviously good for them, but its very unfair and very bad for the economy as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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