LHD vs RHD

[liferichcashpoor]

Hi Forum,

I'm new on here, my first post, I hope I have missed a thread which does this to death already, as I know there are no new questions, but I did search first, honest! And I did read the buyers guide too!

 

So my question is obvious by the subject, I'm looking to buy a used motorhome, and we will be taking it to Europe so for me it makes perfect sense to buy LHD, however i was surprised to find them such a minority on the market. It has me wondering if I will struggle to sell it when (if) I come back...

 

I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

 

I'm also keen to hear how hard it is to sell a motorhome, I haven't yet got a sense of what sells like hot cakes and what hangs around, I don't want to come back and have all that cash tied up for longer than necessary, because my reason for coming back to the UK would probably be an empty bank!

 

thank y'all in advance!

Andy

[Guest JudgeMental]

You will find like on most topics a split of opinion. I favour LHD as have always had them.....But I and others buy in Europe as this the real advantage as costs far lower...May take a bit longer to sell but have never has a problem. All rather irrelevant to us really as would not go near a UK camper with a barge pole! :D

[lennyhb]

If you are going to use it in mainland Europe LHD is the better choice,.

LHD doesn't cost any more to insure (not like cars) well mine didn't. Not much harder to sell than a RHD and has the advantage you can sell or trade in any country with RHD they are unsaleable outside the UK. LHD from a resale point of view is more acceptable in "A Class" Motorhomes.

 

As for general saleability it depends on what you buy, if you go for something obscure it will probably be difficult to shift and will be reflected in the price, a well know European brand like Hymer (had to slip that in (lol) ) will be far easier to sell, generally Motorhome are fairly easy to sell.

[liferichcashpoor]

Thanks for your replies...

 

I looked at buying in Europe and it did look cheaper, started to wonder if it gets complicated if I don't import it, just buy it there and sell it there, is that a mess? In terms of road tax / MOT and the equivalents?

 

ty!

[Guest JudgeMental]

where do you live.....

[liferichcashpoor]

I'm in Brighton, UK so heading across the channel isn't a big deal :)

[Guest JudgeMental]

in that case you will have to register it on importation..selling back to germany/belgium no big deal, particularly if you PX it, dealer will take care of everything.....

 

There are lots of threads on the topic of importation, use the sites "search" function.

[rupert123]

I am going to differ here. Most of our motorhome driving is in Europe but still prefer RHD, it really is not a problem, at least I have never found it to be. A simple fact a lhd drive will be difficult to sell in the UK and will fetch a lot less. It all depends what you do, if you are happy to buy and sell on in Europe fine but if you wish to sell in the uk then it will be difficult. I have sold all my vans, except one, privately with no problems, usually within a week but my last four have all been UK makers which are easily the best sellers in the UK.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Yes Rupert.......The usual negative nonsense from someone with not a clue regards the realities of purchasing, owning and driving a LHD vehicle... Would take you seriously if you had some real life experience on the subject!

[Guest pelmetman]

Welcome to the nut house Andy................and judging by your forum handle we're singing from the same song sheet B-)......................

 

LHD if you intend to do most of your traveling across the ditch, especially if you travel alone ;-).................

 

As for resale you'll pay less so can expect less :-(................but the cheaper the camper the less you'll loose in general...............until you get to our end of the market where you can expect to get your money back or even make a few quid :-D..................

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Some people find adapting to LHD is difficult and disorienting. If that is you, stick to RHD. If you've never tried LHD, I suggest you hire a LHD van across the ditch, and see how it goes. Remember you will have to adapt to the size of the van as well as LHD, so somewhere nice and easy, like France, would probably be wise!

 

As to advantages, there is a certain logic to siting the driver nearest the crown of the road. All countries do this. It is less of an advantage in a motorhome, because one sits fairly high so the view ahead over cars is not that badly obstructed whether RHD or LHD, whichever side of the ditch one is. Generally, with such high traffic levels in this country, scope for overtaking is very limited except on dual carriageways. So, LHD in UK makes little practical difference, though some roundabouts and oblique junctions can be tricky. Once on the continent, however, with generally lower traffic levels, overtaking slower traffic becomes quite feasible, as you can see ahead round the obstructing tractor and trailer (aren't they getting BIG! :-D) or camion, or whatever. View ahead on winding roads is also better, especially on RH bends. So, my take is, overall an advantage to have LHD for right hand traffic, and RHD for left hand traffic, but less so than with cars.

 

Will LHD sell? Answer, yes, with the proviso that what you get is a popular van type. There is a smaller market for LHD vans in UK for obvious reasons, but the demand is there. Will it sell for the same price as an otherwise identical RHD van? No, it will sell for less. However, unless you insist on buying your LHD van new, in UK, from a franchiesd UK dealership, you will initially buy your LHD van for less, so the difference on subsequent sale or trading is approximately the same LHD or RHD.

 

There are broadly two solutions. Buy second-hand and take advantage of the initially lower purchase price, or buy new from a continental dealer (France, Belgium, Germany for convenience), whose prices will be substantially lower on a like for like basis than a UK dealer. If confident with the language, or the dealer has the necessary English, there are only a couple of snags. First, and least difficult, is arranging the transfer of funds to the dealer. Second, and a bit more of a problem, is insurance before the vehicle is registered in UK. The only country in which export insurance is availalable AFAIK, is Germany, but it is the equivalent of the most basic "Road Traffic Acts only" insurance, so not full comp, or even fire and theft, just third party only. It is also in German insuranceease! Neither France or Belgium offers export insurance, but some dealers near the Channel ports will arrange to drive the vehicle to the ferry on their insurance.

 

There are two workarounds. One is a firm in Mansfield called Edge Hill Motorhomes, who import vans for stock, mainly from Germany, and will get new vans to order if that is what you want. Mainly Hymers, but some other German makes as well. Prices are well below UK dealer prices, and you pay in Sterling, and the van will be UK registered when you get it.

 

The other is a firm called Bundesvan, who import vans to order from continental dealers, again mainly German, but will import from elsewhere as well if they can strike a deal. In this case you say what you want, they source it (new or used), tell you the price, you pay a deposit, they arrange the currency transfers, bring it back to the UK (Torquay), register it, and deliver it to your door, when you pay the balance by electronic transfer, again in Sterling.

 

In both cases you will pay the importer's costs, though because of repeat business with continental suppliers, I think they probably buy at better prices than you might if buying direct. So, less of a saving, but no problem with payment or insurance. Both buy from bona fide continental dealerships, so the manufacturers' warranties are intact. My experience is that their prices are very similar, and that on a new van either will show a saving of several thousand pounds against a UK dealer's best offer. So, you either save the difference, or get more van for the UK price. Having made this saving on purchase, your loss when you sell/trade the van will be broadly equivalent to that you'd suffer if you had bought RHD at the (higher) UK price, and then sold or traded it at a higher UK price.

 

Where would you keep the van? Brighton is not natural motorhome territory! Another possibility that I know of, but not about, is to buy from a continental dealer who registers and insures the van himself on your behalf, but keeps it at his premises when you are not using it. This presents some difficulties for loading unloading compared to having the van at your home, but if the van would in any case have to be stored in UK, the only additional drawback is having to cart all your clutter to and from a continental dealership. I believe at least one of the large German dealers will do this, and heard of it from someone who was doing it, but have no further details. In Germany the number plate goes with the driver, not the vehicle, and registration involves a document that proves legal ownership, unlike the UK V5C. So, if you are the registered legal owner, having a dealer's numberplate should present no greater problem than driving a hired vehicle. It will inevitably cost more than an outright purchase, but it suited the (I think) New Zealander who told me about it, since getting UK insurance as a non-resident was punitive, and storage costs money wherever you keep the van. The dealer had also undertaken to maintain the van, and take care of servicing, at the owner's cost, so it was always ready to roll when he flew in. All he had to do was say when he planned to arrive. He was very happy with the arrangement.

[StuartO]

JudgeMental - 2014-08-20 5:39 PM

 

Yes Rupert.......The usual negative nonsense from someone with not a clue regards the realities of purchasing, owning and driving a LHD vehicle... Would take you seriously if you had some real life experience on the subject!

 

We had a thread recently about this being a friendly forum, which it has been recently.

 

Just because the previous post to yours differed from your opinion doesn't make it nonesense and as it happens i don't think it was nonesense, even though I didn't agree with it either. Adding that you won't take such a post seriously was gratuitously offensive and perhaps says more about your aggressive tendencies than anything else.

 

Now why not play nicely from now on instead Judge, eh?

[rubberrat]

I think that if yo do more than a third of your touring/driving overseas then seriously think about a leftie.

They are hardly more difficult to drive in the UK, for every incidence where LHD bites you, there will be another where it plays in your favour.

 

[betsy]

Hello Rich/Poor,

I am currently on my 4th motorhome - all carefully sourced low mileage secondhand examples. First two were personal import LHD Hymers bought from dealers in Germany (I try to change 'vans every two years) which I had absolutely no trouble selling when the time came (for more than I paid for them including the cost of travelling to Germany to search for them and still much less than UK dealers were asking for the same sort of vehicle). My third 'van was RHD bought privately here in the UK and that also sold well. All three buyers were the first ones who came to see that particular van.

My present vehicle is a LHD personal import bought from a pal.

 

Given the choice, I would always go for LHD. On the narrower roads here I am able to keep them closer to the kerb than A RHD, park them easier etc etc. On continental roads, of course, they are in their element.

I know that there are some UK dealers ( like the big one that starts with a W in Warminster) who are not interested in taking a LHD as a trade - in but I would never trade one in anyway as my research tells me that the dealer usually profits from the sale of both the one that you buy and the one you give him in part exchange! In the case of the RHD vehicle, one of the dealers mentioned in this thread actually rang me up and offered me £6,000 less than what I eventually sold it for.

The only downside, for us at least, is that my wife, quite understandably, prefers to be on the correct side of the road for the particular vehicle we are using, so if it a LHD she likes it better on European roads and vice versa.

I hope this is helpful and happy motoring which ever side you choose.

[Rayjsj]

Have never owned a LHD Motorhome, so, should I be commenting ? But I have bought a few vans and cars in my time,SO, I would never bother with ones listed as being LHD, as I drive mostly in the UK, and although not difficult to cope with, it will always be an 'Issue' at resale time, not a problem if you bought more cheaply in Europe. Ray

[StuartO]

My first MH was RHD but then I got a LHD, found it OK (and better in some respects) so when we went for the big retirement purchase, a new MH, went for LHD again. No regrets.

 

You rarely overtake in a MH except on motorways, when LHD/RHD really doesn't matter - and LHD probably makes it easier to adjust to driving on the R when you are abroad.

 

LHD also works better for some European MHs because the internal layout is optimised for a LHD front end.

 

Selling a LHD MH in UK might be more difficult to people who are accustomed to Britsh is Best, but there are a lot of LHD MHs in UK now, so I dont think it's a problem and probably doesn't affect values all that much.

[Bulletguy]

I do most of my touring in Europe and never have a problem in being RHD. However it is a PVC and just under 6mtrs which helps. If buying a larger CB or A class type then i'd certainly look at LHD. As has been mentioned, opinions on LHD vs RHD will always be split.

 

One point worth mentioning though really it only applies if like me you are a solo traveller driving alone. When stuck behind anything slow moving i use my GPS to give me some idea of what the road ahead looks like, ie if straight. Obviously before pulling out to overtake i use my eyes!! :D

[StuartO]

A disadvantage of LHD I forgot to mention applies to some MH layouts which have no window behind the passenger seat - i.e. they have th door there or a blank wall.

 

If (sitting in the LH driving seat) you need to look right at an angled junction, you will depend on you passenger to look for you if the angle is towards the rear - or anticipate the problem and align your MH to open up that viw for you. Alternatively you can rig an extra rear view mirror angled outwards to cover that bling spot.

 

Not a big problem but worth mentioning.

[Guest JudgeMental]

liferichcashpoor - 2014-08-20 3:46 PM

 

I'm in Brighton, UK so heading across the channel isn't a big deal :)

 

 

You may well get more focused advice if you state your budget and what sort of van your considering. Lots of vans on ebay, both left and right hand drive, if it's a tight budget as your avatar suggests the condition of van more important then position of steering wheel.

 

Importing no way as difficult as Kirby's alludes to, he is stinking rich (joke) and happy to give a portion of money's saved to a third party agent..these are not charities! If nervous about driving back on 3rd party export insurance the dealer wil arrange transport to ports...it really is no big deal. Most of us realistic regards risk and relatively relaxed about it, we turn the return into a holiday and have never had issues.....

[Archiesgrandad]

We've had 2 lefthookers and. 2 righthookers, and I honestly don't think it matters much. Find the van you like and buy it, check on where the steering wheel is when you've decided you would like it.

AGD

[rupert123]

StuartO - 2014-08-20 7:00 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2014-08-20 5:39 PM

 

Yes Rupert.......The usual negative nonsense from someone with not a clue regards the realities of purchasing, owning and driving a LHD vehicle... Would take you seriously if you had some real life experience on the subject!

 

We had a thread recently about this being a friendly forum, which it has been recently.

 

Just because the previous post to yours differed from your opinion doesn't make it nonesense and as it happens i don't think it was nonesense, even though I didn't agree with it either. Adding that you won't take such a post seriously was gratuitously offensive and perhaps says more about your aggressive tendencies than anything else.

 

Now why not play nicely from now on instead Judge, eh?

I tend to ignore the resident 'my way is the only way' poster these days. You may not know and he conveniently forgets I was a motor trader for years and have imported more cars and vans from Europe and Japan than an amateur like the mental one will ever do. He is the resident expert on importing, about three I think, and electric mopeds. Not sure where his electric moped expertise comes from, again has owned a couple but as far as I know has never worked in the industry and is not an engineer so how he becomes an expert beats me. It is a pity really because he does come up with some useful stuff but finds it impossible to put forward an argument for his point of view so resorts to abuse, sad really.

[Brian Kirby]

Yes Henry, fair enough, but you overstate the case against importing in equally forthright terms. Motorhomes are not cars, and what is true for cars does not translate directly to the motorhome market

 

Even paying an intermediary (Bundesvan) to go to Germany and buy the van from a German dealer, arrange the currency transfer, collect the van, drive it back to the UK, get the lights and speedometer altered to UK spec, register it, and finally drive it to my front door, I was able to save several thousand pounds against a UK dealer price.

 

Let me show you how/why. For the van we now have, bought in 2013, converted at the then exchange rate of 1.170445, the UK equivalent RHD van, to the same non-standard specification, was £65,400 in Hymer's German, Euro priced, catalogue and £69,390 in Hymer's UK, Sterling priced catalogue. £1,000 of the difference was the additional charge for delivery to the UK. The rest was due to a UK price increase that did not affect German dealers, and Hymer using a less favourable exchange rate that the UK dealers just have to accept. So, the UK dealer started £4,000 down against his German counterpart.

 

The actual price paid, through Bundesvan, for the same van, from a German dealer, was £60,000. Edge Hill Motorhomes of Mansfield, who imports from Germany for stock, quoted me £300 less than Bundesvan for obtaining the same van to the same spec. Since I would have had to go to Mansfield to collect, and Bundesvan would deliver to our house (something no normal dealer does) I went with Bundesvan and saved a hack back down the M1. Well worth £300 - sorry Edge Hill and Mansfield!

 

I also asked for a price for a LHD van from our nearest Hymer dealer, who I told from the outset that I was also dealing with altertnative potential suppliers - though I did not reveal who. Their best offer was £66,800. When I revealed the alternative, import, prices I had been quoted, they very graciously conceded that they could not get close. Had they been able to get close, even if more expensive (within reason :-)), I should have been happy to buy from them. So, these are actual prices, not exaggerated claims.

 

The same was true for our previous van bought in 2007 also through Bundesvan, and was again true in 2005, when I self-imported a Burstner from Calais Caravanes. In all three cases the saving over UK dealer prices has been in the order of 10% at the prevailing exchange rate - which has fluctuated hugely over that time: 1.44057 in 2005, 1.4729 in 2007. So, the saving is not a one off, and it is not greatly altered by exchange rate fluctuations.

 

Yes, when you come to sell in UK the van sells for less. But then, it cost less to buy, so why should it not sell for less? I'm buying a van for my personal use, not as you did with cars, as a business proposition for profit. I don't agree that the LHD vans are difficult to sell. The market is obviously smaller, but the lower price has its appeal to potential buyers, many of whom find LHD advantageous on a van that will do 80-90% of its mileage on the continent. At any rate, mine have sold OK so far!

 

My advantage in doing this is to have been able to buy the vans we wanted at lower cost. That £6,800 saving is now in the "bank" (earning squat-diddely interest! :-)), and not in the van, and I am consoled that we have spent less of our childrens' inheritance on ourselves in the process!

 

Lenny and Eddie, and doubtless others, make larger savings by going to the dealer direct, as I did with our first van, and driving it home. I decline to do this, as the only available insurance now (different in 2005) is German third party only export insurance of limited duration, and I am not happy to drive a new £60,000 motorhome home on third party only insurance. Notwithstanding, even doing it my way, 10% is a worthwhile saving. So, in my view, well worth doing, and I find LHD marginally advantageous on the continent into the bargain.

[Guest pelmetman]

A query Brian...............what happens with warranty issues? :-S...............

 

 

[StuartO]

pelmetman - 2014-08-22 8:19 AM

 

A query Brian...............what happens with warranty issues? :-S...............

 

 

My experience has been the same as Brian's and I also used Bundesvan because of the "deliver to your door" service as well as the saving compared with a quote from a UK dealer.

 

Warranty issues weren't a problem. I phoned Nick at Bundesvan, he got the bit sent from Germany, I fitted the part (it was only a light switch) and thn sent the faulty switch back to him. Easy. There was another thing but I cant remember what it was. Also easily fixed.

 

If you are the sort of person who wouldn't want to take hold pf a screwdriver and needs to be able to take your MH back to the dealer and have every tiny thing looked at and every scratch polished out, this importing service wouldn't do for you, so you would be better buying from a local dealer.

[Guest JudgeMental]

"A query Brian...............what happens with warranty issues? ............... "

 

that old chestnut....you should know by now Pelmet German vans dont go wrong :D

 

the warranties are international and have only had a problem with: one truma heater (fixed under warranty locally) one ALDE heating system ( engineer came to our house) one Heki roof light ans side window (popped into dealer in Belgium on way to Italy) and that's all I can recollect....

 

all this a bit irrelevant as OP on a tight budget from what he has said. henrys experience falls well short or realistic expectations regards importing as he always exaggerates the negatives, has called me a liar in the past when i disused financials on here. Brian you should revel what you got for your 2007 Hobby...that would make H choke...lets see if he would call you a liar

 

Have been at this a fair old time, first crappy vans in my 20's then camped/trailer tented for years and have had vans for last 25 years +. Have imported from, USA, Sweden, Cyprus, Germany and Belgium, always got a good price for vans when sold and got a good price when buying...How about getting back on topic ..what must the OP think! *-)