rupert123 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Sparks1061 - 2014-09-07 6:26 AM Just to keep the thread going :) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746529/Knocked-laughing-gas-robbed-motorhome-Family-tell-motorway-ordeal-latest-attack-tourists-France.html BTW does that look like a 65K motorhome? and I thought MH´s in Finland were expensive! £2000 worth of valuable's stolen again. Is this the obligatory amount you are supposed to carry to be a true 'wild camper', no wonder we have never qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 4 in 2 months ;-)................These myths just keep happening dont they Frank? >:-)............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I see it happened to a "thicko" solicitor this time Frank >:-)...................No doubt you'll say the same about him to?............ie " a brainless idiot who is also gullible, but worst of all your arrogance will not let you see the truth that every intelligent person on this site sees - that you are wrong and that gassing is impossible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Even the 'Funsters' dont believe this nonsense -- the writer here was a 'security professional' http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/magazine/articles/motorhome-gas-attacks/ Please 'cut the cr*p' Dave, it only frightens ignorant and gullible people -- much like yourself really :-| Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 In the UK annual Liar competition I note .. Anyone can take part in the competition. Well, almost anyway; the Associated Press notes that lawyers and politicians are banned, citing "an unfair advantage" in the proceedings. So it seem Solicitors are recognised as being good liars. So we can dismiss any claims made by this victim. This chap clearly seems to be at the lower end of the animal chain of Lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Nice one, Jon! Just a little addendum: as noted in the piece I posted above -- how do you get a heavier-than-air gas to flow upwards through the floor vents of a motorhome (?) Just asking.............. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Did I miss something - such as the incontrovertible medical evidence in support of the alleged gassing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-09-07 11:44 AM Nice one, Jon! Just a little addendum: as noted in the piece I posted above -- how do you get a heavier-than-air gas to flow upwards through the floor vents of a motorhome (?) Just asking.............. Colin. For info Colin Expansion of Gases Under equal pressures,*** all gases expand at the same rate***. A gas expands by the same proportion as the temperature rises, provided external pressure remains the same. The effect of heat on the expansion of gases is stated in Charles' Law. A gas occupies 1/273.15 more space for each 1° C. rise in temperature and, conversely, 1/273.15 less space for each 1° C. drop in temperature. This fact enabled scientists to determine absolute zero (-273.15° C.), the temperature at which all molecules theoretically stop moving. A gas can be made to expand without the addition of outside heat if the pressure confining the gas is reduced. This principle is stated in Boyle's Law. Energy for the expansion is drawn from the expanding gas itself, thus causing a lowering of temperature in the gas. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-09-07 11:28 AM Even the 'Funsters' dont believe this nonsense -- the writer here was a 'security professional' http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/magazine/articles/motorhome-gas-attacks/ Please 'cut the cr*p' Dave, it only frightens ignorant and gullible people -- much like yourself really :-| Cheers, Colin. I'm not the one with my head stuck in the sand............nice to see you skeptics are equal rights abusers though :D.............even solicitors can expect the thicko label to be applied (lol) (lol) (lol)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 There are a number of gas cocktails available.the Americans had the idea of using gas a Wakeco and the russians used at during a hostage situation not so long back. The russians are the masters in gases, so it is not unlikely that our eastern European friends have excess to it.however I think that the lack of damage to the motorhome points to it not happening. .michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Tracker - 2014-09-07 11:52 AM Did I miss something - such as the incontrovertible medical evidence in support of the alleged gassing? Last night, the Royal College of Anaesthetists said: ‘It would not be possible to knock someone unconscious by blowing gas through the window of a motorhome without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping.’ Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746529/Knocked-laughing-gas-robbed-motorhome-Family-tell-motorway-ordeal-latest-attack-tourists-France.html#ixzz3CdG2k6ji But why is it each recent loss is always £2000? Something to do with the Maximum ensured loss on personal effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 terry1956 - 2014-09-07 1:16 PM There are a number of gas cocktails available.the Americans had the idea of using gas a Wakeco and the russians used at during a hostage situation not so long back. The russians are the masters in gases, so it is not unlikely that our eastern European friends have excess to it.however I think that the lack of damage to the motorhome points to it not happening. .michael[/QUOT Terry what you forget to say is that the Russian Gas Men actually finished off some customers, completely cut them off. Another more cynical viewpoint revolves round the insurance company payouts. I stll have to hear of person who was gassed have an ongoing situation with the insurance company, Now we all know how pernickety insurance companies areif thee attacks did take place why has nobody been on the forum complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 docted - 2014-09-07 5:59 PM Another more cynical viewpoint revolves round the insurance company payouts. I still have to hear of person who was gassed have an ongoing situation with the insurance company. Now we all know how pernickety insurance companies are if these attacks did take place why has nobody been on the forum complaining? Because the claim would be for theft and as long as there is a proper Police record and crime number and as long as the terms of the policy have been met regarding reasonable security the mode of the theft and whether gas is involved or not should not matter to the insurers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Tracker - 2014-09-07 6:10 PM Because the claim would be for theft and as long as there is a proper Police record and crime number and as long as the terms of the policy have been met regarding reasonable security the mode of the theft and whether gas is involved or not should not matter to the insurers. Reminds me of my last accident. Touched the bumper of the car in front at 1 to 2 mph at a traffic light. The woman got out shouting she had a child in the car. Another 60 seconds of abuse got back in her car. Then after having a chat with her hubby in the passenger seat got out shouting her neck hurt and she would sue? Oh yes no claim for damage to the car just a £7000 bill for whiplash. Why do the insurance companies allow this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Curtisden - 2014-09-07 1:32 PM Tracker - 2014-09-07 11:52 AM Did I miss something - such as the incontrovertible medical evidence in support of the alleged gassing? Last night, the Royal College of Anaesthetists said: ‘It would not be possible to knock someone unconscious by blowing gas through the window of a motorhome without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping.’ Last night?.................The skeptics have been waving the same RCoA opinion around for years ;-)...............although they do distance themselves if the suggestion is exhaust fumes :D.......... Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding. Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice. The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows: 'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'. I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction. Kind regards, Mrs Mandie Kelly Website and Publications Officer Communications Department Clinical Quality Directorate The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG ANAESTHESIA CLINICAL SERVICES ACCREDITATION (ACSA) Given the symptoms the latest victims claim to have had, then I'd be inclined to think CO and not laughing gas was used ;-).............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. ..................... Dai-sy, dai-sy, give me your answer true. I'm half cra-zy, o-ver .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 pkc - 2014-09-08 8:34 AM Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. ..................... Dai-sy, dai-sy, give me your answer true. I'm half cra-zy, o-ver .............. Over the thought of you..... Being gassed is a risk true... Never mind though..... As the risk is low... Avoid where the tea leafs prowl.... and you'll not make the skeptics growl.... For they'll call you names due to their disbelief......... That such methods could be used by a thief >:-).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 ................: Affirmative, Dave. I read you. Dave: Open the pod bay doors, Bye Dave. Hiss..sss ............it won't be stylish marriage ... I can't afford.............. Bye Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-09-08 9:24 AM pkc - 2014-09-08 8:34 AM Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. ..................... Dai-sy, dai-sy, give me your answer true. I'm half cra-zy, o-ver .............. Over the thought of you..... Being gassed is a risk true... Never mind though..... As the risk is low... Avoid where the tea leafs prowl.... and you'll not make the skeptics growl.... For they'll call you names due to their disbelief......... That such methods could be used by a thief >:-).... Pity someone is not able to squirt some ?Gas? around your keyboard and put an end to this pointless diatribe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashpark Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Pelmetman, I'm increasing finding myself believing your compelling argument. The one thing that would have me finally coming round to your way of thinking is for you to try it out for yourself, I get the impression that there are many on here who would happily assist in the process of incapacitating you in the experiment .......and might even be willing to do it with gas 8-) If all else fails, think of the two grand, top of the range phones and tablets and jewellery you can claim from your insurer ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Curtisden - 2014-09-08 9:54 AM Pity someone is not able to squirt some ?Gas? around your keyboard and put an end to this pointless diatribe? The bloke who discovered the world was round...........also struggled to convince the skeptics ;-).............. No doubt weight of evidence or someone getting caught will be enough to change their view............I put my money on some getting caught seeing as they like Iphones, which I read somewhere can have a tracker fitted :D................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-09-08 1:35 PM The bloke who discovered the world was round...........also struggled to convince the skeptics ;-).............. Is there any medical evidence to prove that he was round - he might well have been flat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Tracker - 2014-09-08 1:59 PM pelmetman - 2014-09-08 1:35 PM The bloke who discovered the world was round...........also struggled to convince the skeptics ;-).............. Is there any medical evidence to prove that he was round - he might well have been flat? It was in the Daily Mail, so must be true. These papers research stories to get the facts right you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Time to reprise the arguments for those who have recently joined the forum, and to save them the trouble of trawling through pages of claim and counter claim ;-)................. Taking the skeptics view one at a time........... 1. The RCoA state it would be impossible and in their opinion prohibitively expensive, to use any of the gases currently used in anesthesia............. With the exception of hippy crack AKA laughing gas I would agree, besides CO appears to be the current method of choice, and as the RCoA state CO is not a anesthetic so is outside their their field of experience.... 2. Impossible to fill a camper with gas?........... Air is a gas :D..................and any gas will expand to fill a given space **equally**, naturally at point of entry concentrations will be higher. 3. Lack of dead bodies?............. Given that the victims exposure to any incapacitate would be limited to minutes, and the source of gas/fumes would be removed prior to entry, plus the immediate reduction in toxic atmosphere as soon as the thieves gain access. Its not surprising that no one has yet died, although that said I would also suggest so far they have been lucky by not targeting anyone with a medical condition :-|.............. 4. Too much of a risk for the thieves?............. The argument that the thieves wouldn't risk a murder charge, is like saying people wont commit crimes as they risk going to prison? :-S.............Looking at it from a tea leafs point of view, his greatest unknown and "risk" is when he breaks into a camper...... unless he/she has been following them they're unlikely to know whether there's a couple of old codgers on board, or a family of 6 as in the Chadwick's robbery. Hence the use of some means to incapacitate the occupants would make total sense, and in the balance of probabilities they know their chances of getting caught at the scene is remote, and if they were........ then the EU soft justice system, would at worse case scenario see them getting done for the much lesser charge of manslaughter........ 5. Lack of medical evidence?......... Up until recently there was only the anecdotal evidence of the symptoms suffered by the victims, which are the same for those who have suffered a CO overdose ...............The Chadwick's incident has shown that CO was used..........because they were given "blood tests that proved positive for CO poisoning", and subsequently given oxygen by the French medical staff.......... 6. How do they do it?............. This is the interesting bit................. I know from my own experience with the CO alarm going off, whilst just being parked next to a vehicle undergoing diagnostics, that pumping a bit of CO through an open window or vent would be a simple matter...... Engine noise?..............on a service area is not unusual ;-)........... Exhaust smell?............a filter would again be simple enough to add to a bit of hose :D.............. Alternatively there are other simple methods of generating CO, as Teflon2 pointed one out to me the other day. 7. Insurance scam?............ Its frequently said by the skeptics that claiming to be gassed is a method to ensure payout :-S.......... Seeing as insurance companies payout regardless of whether gas was used seems a pointless exercise to me, especially when they can expect nothing but abuse from their fellow moho owners *-)........ 8. Alternative theory's?.......... The skeptics have tried various alternative reasons why people would sleep through their camper being robbed..............from tiredness..... too much drink.......fridge failure prior to robbery..........heavy smokers (lol) ...............unfortunately none more plausible than the use of a incapacitate in my view...........especially as we now have 4 reported incidents in 2 months >:-)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I agree with the HE and Brambles... ..that'd be a bad enough comment for someone to come out with to their mates in a pub, never mind on an online forum! 8-) (..and I thought some of the, "Little Englanders" in the "Migrants.." thread ,with their selective recall of history and their "..we're all going to hell in a handcart.." mindset, were bad enough... *-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.