Tracker Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 It is a shame that once again this has descended into an ill natured thread. Why don't we leave the insults there guys and allow normality and civility to return and hopefully other people will have sufficient confidence to express their own view without fear of ridicule or insult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 This is going well :D............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Blimey i actually read this as I thought I might learn something about the topic....... Maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madge Gentle Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Remind me again. What was that recent thread. 'This is a Friendly Forum'? Yes, that's the one. B*ggered that theory up, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Tracker - 2014-08-22 5:13 PM It is a shame that once again this has descended into an ill natured thread. Why don't we leave the insults there guys and allow normality and civility to return and hopefully other people will have sufficient confidence to express their own view without fear of ridicule or insult? C'mon Richard! Who re-started this silly nonsense then? If that wasn't an incitement to begin the silly spats about this mythical subject, then I don't know what was! And..............don't play the innocent -- as you usually do! Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-08-22 1:30 PM As far as I’m concerned the ‘gassing’ issue is like theism. There may be a deity that has created the universe and continues to personally involve itself in human beings private lives - or there may not. There seems to be no way to prove which view is true, but the belief that a supreme being may be overseeing one’s every action may persuade some people to act more sensibly than they would otherwise do. Irrespective of whether or not there have ever actually been theft-related ‘gassing’ incidents, if the belief that ‘gassing’ happens encourages people not to overnight on motorway service areas, that will be a good thing. And if a belief in ‘gassing’ also encourages people to fit gas detectors in their leisure vehicles, that would be no bad thing either. Now, for god’s sake shut the **** up about this! Wonderful Derek, couldn't agree more -- perhaps you might persuade the motorhome 'Guru' (Dave Newell) to return? Thanks again for your sage witticisms! Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oh dear the skeptics are frothing at the mouth again :D.................. Strange how they can't accept other folk have a different opinion *-)................ Yes I know the English skeptic has a "c" init...............but I like to be kontrary............Kolin :D.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-08-22 6:34 PM C'mon Richard! Who re-started this silly nonsense then? If that wasn't an incitement to begin the silly spats about this mythical subject, then I don't know what was! And..............don't play the innocent -- as you usually do! Cheers, Colin. I must admit to an element of fun and frivolity when I posted but I really did hope that after the bad mouthing and egotistical rants of the previous incarnation things would be a little more reasoned this time. I gave it the obvious title that I did.so that anyone not interested could so easily ignore the thread rather than start all the 'my opinion is bigger than your opinion' crud all over again. I was wrong it seems? I still don't believe gas attacks happen but when and if the evidence appears before me I am open minded and interested enough to change that view and until then I look forward to some more genuine informative postings by anyone not afraid of being cruelly put down by the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-08-22 6:34 PM Tracker - 2014-08-22 5:13 PM It is a shame that once again this has descended into an ill natured thread. C'mon Richard! Who re-started this silly nonsense then? If that wasn't an incitement to begin the silly spats about this mythical subject, then I don't know what was! And..............don't play the innocent -- as you usually do! Cheers, Colin. Well spotted Colin! You have been around long enough to recognise tractors slimy & pious holier then thou technique. At least this thread keeps most of the forum half wits and bigots occupied..how they found there way out of chatterpox God only knows :D Still cant believe Dave Newel jacked it in because of these morons :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 JudgeMental - 2014-08-22 7:25 PM Symbol Owner - 2014-08-22 6:34 PM Tracker - 2014-08-22 5:13 PM It is a shame that once again this has descended into an ill natured thread. C'mon Richard! Who re-started this silly nonsense then? If that wasn't an incitement to begin the silly spats about this mythical subject, then I don't know what was! And..............don't play the innocent -- as you usually do! Cheers, Colin. Well spotted Colin! You have been around long enough to recognise tractors slimy & pious holier then thou technique. At least this thread keeps most of the forum half wits and bigots occupied..how they found there way out of chatterpox God only knows :D Still cant believe Dave Newel jacked it in because of these morons :-S Tractors slimy and pious holier than thou technique , half wits , bigots , chatterpox , morons ..... All this on top of his vegetable insult and we wonder why folk are leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-08-22 6:59 PM Strange how they can't accept other folk have a different opinion *-)................ We're talking facts/truth and veracity here, NOT the biased opinions of the gullible! As Derek so wisely says, it is akin to religious belief, there is no way of disproving these things, so, if you wish to believe in 'Fairy Tales' and it causes you to behave more sensibly than you otherwise would do, who am I, or anyone else, to gainsay it? It doesn't add one iota of proof that these events actually take place in the way described, however. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 See what I mean Colin? Nuff said I think, Judgedmental certainly sums him up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-08-22 7:33 PM pelmetman - 2014-08-22 6:59 PM Strange how they can't accept other folk have a different opinion *-)................ We're talking facts/truth and veracity here, NOT the biased opinions of the gullible! As Derek so wisely says, it is akin to religious belief, there is no way of disproving these things, so, if you wish to believe in 'Fairy Tales' and it causes you to behave more sensibly than you otherwise would do, who am I, or anyone else, to gainsay it? It doesn't add one iota of proof that these events actually take place in the way described, however. Colin. Which has been my point all along ;-)..................there is no definitive evidence for either side at the moment :-|............... Although its clear the skeptics have made their minds up based purely on an email from the RCoA, who have recently said that applying their opinion to the recent incident was incorrect as CO was allegedly used ;-).............. Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding. Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice. The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows: 'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'. I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction. Kind regards, Mrs Mandie Kelly Website and Publications Officer Communications Department Clinical Quality Directorate The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Memorys going. Now where did I leave those BOGOF gross packs of YAAAAWNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 AAAAAGH! Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 If the subject bores you then don't keep looking at it - how hard can that be? Personally I don't believe it either but I am open minded enough to see it to be a serious enough subject to deserve better treatment than some of you are giving it. So, it seems, does Vicarious books who do know a thing or two about motorhomes and France or why would they give it credulity by mentioning the links? The publicity would appear to have no advantage for them other than as a well meaning and friendly service to warn other motorhomers of the rumours and so not to stay overnight on motorway aires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Tracker - 2014-08-22 10:01 PM If the subject bores you then don't keep looking at it - how hard can that be? Personally I don't believe it either but I am open minded enough to see it to be a serious enough subject to deserve better treatment than some of you are giving it. So, it seems, does Vicarious books who do know a thing or two about motorhomes and France or why would they give it credulity by mentioning the links? The publicity would appear to have no advantage for them other than as a well meaning and friendly service to warn other motorhomers of the rumours and so not to stay overnight on motorway aires? But, protest as much as you like, Rich, it was just a vehicle for you to bait NudgeGentle, and for Pelmet Dave to goad the Over Indulged One, and then to both feign innocence. Who, me Guv? Oh no, never entered my mind, honest. Like Hell it didn't! :-D Not overnighting on motorway service or picnic areas has been sound advice for years, not to avoid being gassed, just to avoid being robbed. This is standard advice from the French police. Notwithstanding, folk still do it. More fool them. The insurers don't compensate the gassed, they compensate the robbed, subject to plausible evidence of robbery. Gas doesn't enter the equation. That is what, in terms, they said. To Pelmet Dave: the RCoA would hardly comment on CO as an anaesthetic, would they? It is not used by them. Their reluctance to comment merely reflects their wisdom in sticking to what they know about, not acceptance that what they described as a poison is a potential narcotic. C'mon guys, this string was no more than a lobbed grenade. But why? Who benefits? Does anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-08-23 12:01 AM Tracker - 2014-08-22 10:01 PM If the subject bores you then don't keep looking at it - how hard can that be? Personally I don't believe it either but I am open minded enough to see it to be a serious enough subject to deserve better treatment than some of you are giving it. So, it seems, does Vicarious books who do know a thing or two about motorhomes and France or why would they give it credulity by mentioning the links? The publicity would appear to have no advantage for them other than as a well meaning and friendly service to warn other motorhomers of the rumours and so not to stay overnight on motorway aires? But, protest as much as you like, Rich, it was just a vehicle for you to bait NudgeGentle, and for Pelmet Dave to goad the Over Indulged One, and then to both feign innocence. Who, me Guv? Oh no, never entered my mind, honest. Like Hell it didn't! :-D Not overnighting on motorway service or picnic areas has been sound advice for years, not to avoid being gassed, just to avoid being robbed. This is standard advice from the French police. Notwithstanding, folk still do it. More fool them. The insurers don't compensate the gassed, they compensate the robbed, subject to plausible evidence of robbery. Gas doesn't enter the equation. That is what, in terms, they said. To Pelmet Dave: the RCoA would hardly comment on CO as an anaesthetic, would they? It is not used by them. Their reluctance to comment merely reflects their wisdom in sticking to what they know about, not acceptance that what they described as a poison is a potential narcotic. C'mon guys, this string was no more than a lobbed grenade. But why? Who benefits? Does anyone? How did 6 people end up with CO poisoning? :-S................. Oops...........where's that gloss paint :D...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I never read newspapers and to those who start unneccessary posts and make comments on rubbish such as this are a good reason for avoid forums too. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-08-22 2:47 PM rupert123 - 2014-08-22 2:00 PM Derek Uzzell - 2014-08-22 1:30 PM As far as I’m concerned the ‘gassing’ issue is like theism. There may be a deity that has created the universe and continues to personally involve itself in human beings private lives - or there may not. There seems to be no way to prove which view is true, but the belief that a supreme being may be overseeing one’s every action may persuade some people to act more sensibly than they would otherwise do. Irrespective of whether or not there have ever actually been theft-related ‘gassing’ incidents, if the belief that ‘gassing’ happens encourages people not to overnight on motorway service areas, that will be a good thing. And if a belief in ‘gassing’ also encourages people to fit gas detectors in their leisure vehicles, that would be no bad thing either. Now, for god’s sake shut the **** up about this! Although I did not contribute to the last thread, at least do not think I did, cannot be bothered to look, why should people not comment about it. Other things come up repeatedly, i,e. reverse polarity, but no one has this reaction to them. Just because it is not to your liking it does not mean it cannot be discussed, no one is forcing you to read it. It is unfortunate that it caused Dave Newel to leave, he was one of the few genuine experts on here and a big loss but it was his choice, personal I hope he re-thinks. If it is discussed without the personal abuse no problem, sometimes these threads are even funny and certainly better than endless discussions about getting two wires the wrong way around. An interesting analogy ;-).................... Has anyone ever been injured by a plugging into a reverse polarity ehu? :-S.................or is it just a myth? :D......... Its just a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 'But, protest as much as you like, Rich, it was just a vehicle for you to bait NudgeGentle, and for Pelmet Dave to goad the Over Indulged One, and then to both feign innocence. Who, me Guv? Oh no, never entered my mind, honest. Like Hell it didn't! :-D not acceptance that what they described as a poison is a potential narcotic. C'mon guys, this string was no more than a lobbed grenade. But why? Who benefits? Does anyone?' Come off it Brian. A gentle bait is one thing but the usual response from the judge is quite another, it is time the moderators did something about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-08-23 12:01 AM C'mon guys, this string was no more than a lobbed grenade. But why? Who benefits? Does anyone? C'mon now Brian. I'm sure you are aware that it's Tracker who benefits. He delights in ressurrecting " dead " arguments ( i.e. stirring things up ) and admits above that he finds it " fun " ( Always followed up with " Oh dear , I didn't realise this would happen " - when things get unpleasant ) :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 malc d - 2014-08-23 9:58 AM C'mon now Brian. I'm sure you are aware that it's Tracker who benefits. He delights in ressurrecting " dead " arguments ( i.e. stirring things up ) and admits above that he finds it " fun " ( Always followed up with " Oh dear , I didn't realise this would happen " - when things get unpleasant ) :-( Too right Malc, the other phrase is: "It's only a bit of banter" -- see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28895580 The relevant bit is here:-The problem with "banter" is that people use it as an excuse to say something unpleasant and then distance themselves from it, says Daily Telegraph assistant comment editor Tom Chivers. "I hate the way the word is used to cover up something bad and horribly offensive. It's not bants, it's not LOLs, it's completely grim. "Banter is saying that if you find this offensive then you're the one in the wrong because it's just banter and you don't get it." There's a big difference between friendly teasing and bullying. For this reason, banter will always have its defenders. But for others, it has become associated with the latter rather than the former. QED! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-08-23 5:22 AM How did 6 people end up with CO poisoning? :-S................. That's easy you dumbo........... they had faulty gas appliances on board! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Symbol Owner - 2014-08-23 10:31 AM pelmetman - 2014-08-23 5:22 AM How did 6 people end up with CO poisoning? :-S................. That's easy you dumbo........... they had faulty gas appliances on board! Colin. It was their last night in the 'van and when the next service discovers a fault, do you think they'll admit it? If their statement is true, and I have reservations about that, think on this - Dumbo believes that no one heard a car with its engine running for ages whilst they pumped in a deadly poison. Two of the six were sleeping high up in the Luton overcab bed. So by the time the CO had built up enough to put them into a gentle sleep the interior would be totally filled and the others would be dead. But of course he has an open mind, which he boasts about continually. But he's just proclaimed himself an atheist. So on the one subject that can never be proven he knows the truth. An open mind? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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