To A Class or not to A Class?

[Robinhood]

.....what you need is not the brochure, but the pricelist; this gives all the technical details and the options (generally with the weights of the same).

 

You can download the UK version from the hymer.com website, but the German one, downloadable somewhat down the page here:

 

http://www.hymer.com/de/katalog-und-kontakt/e-kataloge.html

 

...is often more comprehensive (given some schoolboy German)

 

...English pricelist downloadable from here:

 

http://www.hymer.com/en/catalog-and-contact/e-catalogues.html

[thebishbus]

Access to the inner wing area on our Hymer A class is by removing the wheel arches . Guest Trucks replaced our cam belt and did not mention any difficulty doing so, I do normal servicing with no problem. Replacing the starter battery was a pain, I had to remove the radiator header tank and power steering reservoir to remove it. The side visibility is much better when driving on the wrong side . You have to watch out for your wing mirrors , ours extend 10" either side of the van at head height

Brian B.

[Hawcara]

Thank you for that response. :-D

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2014-08-31 7:21 PM

 

rupert123 - 2014-08-31 10:32 AM

 

My worry with an A Class has always been what happens in a crash. How much of the original crush zones in the base vehicle remain intact. They must be compromised just with the removal of original front wings or is all this left in place under the new body, personally I would doubt it but must admit have never looked or enquired. It is the first thing I would ask about, doubt you would get an answer though.

Hymer do crash test their A Class vans, and there is a "U Tube" video of the test somewhere on the net. It is the usual full frontal into a concrete block from memory, and the vehicle appears to suffer little damage. However, I doubt anyone would drove it away afterwards! I don't think I have seen a 3/4 frontal, which would probably be a bit more revealing.

 

But then, how it fares it will depend what hits one/one hits. I'd prefer not to head-butt a 40 tonne truck at any speed - especially if the truck were also moving - in any vehicle, but especially a coachbuilt motorhome - whether luton, low profile, or A Class!

 

If one sets aside head on crashes and looks at sideswipes and back enders, there would, IMO, be little to no difference. Motorhomes are made of chicken poop and lard, so if you want a vehicle that will absorb impacts in the same way that standard, mass produced, cars and vans will, buy a PVC!

 

Personally, I have great reservations about the performance of the cab element of a coachbuilt, because the roof of the cab is cut away, so reducing its strength, and many are based on the platform-cab chassis - which is just the floorpan of the van with all bodywork aft of the cab removed. I would imagine that these must have far less strength in the area just behind the cab doors than the van from which they are derived, and would be liable to fold at that point under impact. What the consequences of that for those at the front might be I can't imagine.

 

It is a valid concern, but I don't think the A Class vehicles are that much more vulnerable than anything other than a PVC. I think they are all bad vehicles in which to have major accidents, not least because of the quantity of gear they contain, not all of which is guaranteed to stay in place in an accident. As they love to shout in pantomimes, "its BEHIND you!!" :-D

Sorry Brian not convinced. Hymer, I believe, did one crash test and not a very comprehensive one. Fiat remove the cab roof and insert more strengthening to compensate for this. I would certainly agree the rear part of the van is not as strong but you drive, I hope, in the front and this will stand up just as well as a pvc. Driving an A class is about the same as driving without a seat belt, you may get away with it all the time but perhaps one day not, I would prefer not to take the risk.

[Brian Kirby]

thebishbus - 2014-08-31 8:18 PM

 

Access to the inner wing area on our Hymer A class is by removing the wheel arches . Guest Trucks replaced our cam belt and did not mention any difficulty doing so, I do normal servicing with no problem. Replacing the starter battery was a pain, I had to remove the radiator header tank and power steering reservoir to remove it. ............... Brian B.

Different Ducatos, I think, Brian. Don't know about the wheel arches on the X250 based A Class vans. However, the starter battery is housed under the driver's feet, so it is quite easily accessible - if heavy!

[Brian Kirby]

Hawcara - 2014-08-31 7:38 PM

 

Brian touched on the payload issue. With the Exsis the big selling point is just that?

What sort of stuff brings the payload down so much in the Exsis?

We have a coahbuilt and still have a fair amount of payload, even with full fuel and water tanks.

:-D

Our Exsis is 6.75 metres long. The longer the van, the heavier, so it depends both on what the actual MIRO of your van is, and what you consider a "fair" payload.

 

Some of the Hymer claim is, IMO, smoke and mirrors, but hey, they want to sell motorhomes, so having made a relatively lighter A Class van, they will, inevitably, push that aspect as an advantage. One just has to cock a leery eye at the advertising claims, and do the maths for one's self. To be fair, they do put it all there, for anyone who can be bothered to look.

[Brock]

Henry [Rupert123], we've had this exchange before and I will repeat what I said then, "Hymer retain the original crash box in the engine compartment for safety. The a-classes exceed legislative requirements and include numerous passive safety features common to coachbuilts and PVCs plus additional features common to a-classes."

 

I can't comment on other A-classes.

 

Brian and I seem comfortable with the safety in our Hymer a-classes. You, as a coachbuilt owner, are not comfortable with A-class safety. As Tracker says, there is no right or wrong, just different. It'll be up to Frank to decide whether the safety aspects of an A-class are sufficient for him if he chooses to go down that route.

 

Though like you, I'd prefer not to find out how safe is my a-class in a crash.

[lennyhb]

Current van is our first A Class only had it a few months do not think I could go back to a CB well worth the extra cost. I have a bit of spaceale awareness problem positioning it on the road our first outing was to France in 10 days the only day I didn't hid a kerb was the day we were parked in a field, and over here the boss keeps shouting at me "your over the white line again" but I'm getting used to it.

Another reason for going for the A Class is that it is so quiet, can talk normally & don't need to turn the radio up at 70mph.

 

One of the reason we went for the i678 was it had the biggest washroom as we always use our own facilities, the i688 was a close 2nd choice.

 

I agree with most of Brian's comments apart from the one about the table as all the new vans have tables that rotate through 360 deg.

 

Don't bother with the fiberglass roof capping, cost us 30kg payload and it is just stuck on panels, if you get hail damage easy to do as an after fit.

 

Like Brian says the side sofa fouls the drivers seat, last van had same layout side sofa was slightly smaller and had ISRI seat less bulky than Aguti ones. After hols will go to local upholsterer see if they can modify side cushion.

 

Brian recommended the Hymer Silver Screens to me they are very good and cheaper than after market ones I paid £250 after market ones are over £300.

 

I thought we would have plenty of payload, especially as we didn't get an awning this time, that was wishful thinking.

Weighted it on the way home last night almost full holiday trim but only 75% water, 55% fuel, full gas (2 x 52Lt Aluminium bottles) spot on 3500kg. So looks like we will be running 50/60kg over as we like to run with full water tank also have 2 x 20Lt containers in garage we like to fill when wilding as van only has a 100Lt tank.

I have suspicions of our local weighbridge, according to my calculations we should have a 100kg spare and that ties up with when I weighed it a couple of months ago.

 

If you are carrying electric bikes probably better off with one with a big garage won't be so much weight on the rear axle then. I find the steering can get a bit floaty over 70mph with a full water tank as tank is behind rear axle.

 

If you don't run with a full water tank 3500kg is workable, if we did get stopped we would be under by dumping the water also how accurate is a weighbridge, tolerance is +/- 50kg checked at 17-18 tonnes?

 

Done it again replied to one of Frank's posts - must take something for it. (lol)

[Guest Had Enough]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 12:26 PM

 

Current van is our first A Class only had it a few months do not think I could go back to a CB well worth the extra cost. I have a bit of spaceale awareness problem positioning it on the road our first outing was to France in 10 days the only day I didn't hid a kerb was the day we were parked in a field, and over here the boss keeps shouting at me "your over the white line again" but I'm getting used to it.

Another reason for going for the A Class is that it is so quiet, can talk normally & don't need to turn the radio up at 70mph.

 

One of the reason we went for the i678 was it had the biggest washroom as we always use our own facilities, the i688 was a close 2nd choice.

 

I agree with most of Brian's comments apart from the one about the table as all the new vans have tables that rotate through 360 deg.

 

Don't bother with the fiberglass roof capping, cost us 30kg payload and it is just stuck on panels, if you get hail damage easy to do as an after fit.

 

Like Brian says the side sofa fouls the drivers seat, last van had same layout side sofa was slightly smaller and had ISRI seat less bulky than Aguti ones. After hols will go to local upholsterer see if they can modify side cushion.

 

Brian recommended the Hymer Silver Screens to me they are very good and cheaper than after market ones I paid £250 after market ones are over £300.

 

I thought we would have plenty of payload, especially as we didn't get an awning this time, that was wishful thinking.

Weighted it on the way home last night almost full holiday trim but only 75% water, 55% fuel, full gas (2 x 52Lt Aluminium bottles) spot on 3500kg. So looks like we will be running 50/60kg over as we like to run with full water tank also have 2 x 20Lt containers in garage we like to fill when wilding as van only has a 100Lt tank.

I have suspicions of our local weighbridge, according to my calculations we should have a 100kg spare and that ties up with when I weighed it a couple of months ago.

 

If you are carrying electric bikes probably better off with one with a big garage won't be so much weight on the rear axle then. I find the steering can get a bit floaty over 70mph with a full water tank as tank is behind rear axle.

 

If you don't run with a full water tank 3500kg is workable, if we did get stopped we would be under by dumping the water also how accurate is a weighbridge, tolerance is +/- 50kg checked at 17-18 tonnes?

 

Done it again replied to one of Frank's posts - must take something for it. (lol)

 

Thanks. We'll be having an awning and don't want the ebikes in the garage so they'll be on the back I'm leaning more and more to the 3850 kg upgrade as I want to be comfortable about my weight limit.

 

My big worry is the weight on the back end and the best way to deal with it. I'd better start another thread rather than divert this one.

 

 

[lennyhb]

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 1:54 PM

 

Thanks. We'll be having an awning and don't want the ebikes in the garage so they'll be on the back I'm leaning more and more to the 3850 kg upgrade as I want to be comfortable about my weight limit.

 

My big worry is the weight on the back end and the best way to deal with it. I'd better start another thread rather than divert this one.

 

 

Bear in mind the Exsis does not have chassis extension, it has a strong molded fiberglass floor, limit in garage is 250kg. Load limit on bike rack is 50kg so should not be a problem.

[Guest Had Enough]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 2:16 PM

 

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 1:54 PM

 

Thanks. We'll be having an awning and don't want the ebikes in the garage so they'll be on the back I'm leaning more and more to the 3850 kg upgrade as I want to be comfortable about my weight limit.

 

My big worry is the weight on the back end and the best way to deal with it. I'd better start another thread rather than divert this one.

 

 

Bear in mind the Exsis does not have chassis extension, it has a strong molded fiberglass floor, limit in garage is 250kg. Load limit on bike rack is 50kg so should not be a problem.

 

I don't want a conventional bike rack fitted on the rear wall. Every time I accidentally miss a sleeping policeman it feels as though the weight of the bikes will rip the back off. And it's difficult lifting a heavy ebike so high.

 

I have one of these, http://goo.gl/WdOVIo and it's brilliant. Low down, so very easy to lift the bikes on, although if you watch the video, which I recommend, you can even wheel them on.

 

So I'll be having a towbar and the bike carrier weighs 19 kg. Add the weight of the towbar and two ebikes at about 20 kg each and that's a bit of weight on the back end.

 

I can't find out the rear axle loading for the 3500 and the 3850 variants although I'm sure an email to Hymer will get a quick answer.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Grrrr! I've just tried to contact Hymer to ask them the rear axle loadings for the Exsis 3500 kg and 3850 kg models.

 

I filled in the enquiry form, typed a long explanation as to why I want this information but couldn't fill in the vehicle serial number as I haven't got a vehicle yet. I sent the message, but it was rejected as the serial number is a required field. Needless to say it wiped my message leaving a blank box.

 

I'll see if there's a sales enquiry address.

 

 

[lennyhb]

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 2:33 PM

 

 

I don't want a conventional bike rack fitted on the rear wall. Every time I accidentally miss a sleeping policeman it feels as though the weight of the bikes will rip the back off. And it's difficult lifting a heavy ebike so high.

 

I have one of these, http://goo.gl/WdOVIo and it's brilliant. Low down, so very easy to lift the bikes on, although if you watch the video, which I recommend, you can even wheel them on.

 

So I'll be having a towbar and the bike carrier weighs 19 kg. Add the weight of the towbar and two ebikes at about 20 kg each and that's a bit of weight on the back end.

 

I can't find out the rear axle loading for the 3500 and the 3850 variants although I'm sure an email to Hymer will get a quick answer.

 

 

Rear axle load 2000kg, your tow bar may be quite a bit heaver than you think due to there being no chassis extention. Having just looked under the back of mine not sure if it's possible to fit a tow bar it would cetainly reduce ground clearance a fair bit. Mine is one of the longer ones at 7.2m probably easier on the shorter vans.

[Guest Had Enough]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 3:13 PM

 

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 2:33 PM

 

 

I don't want a conventional bike rack fitted on the rear wall. Every time I accidentally miss a sleeping policeman it feels as though the weight of the bikes will rip the back off. And it's difficult lifting a heavy ebike so high.

 

I have one of these, http://goo.gl/WdOVIo and it's brilliant. Low down, so very easy to lift the bikes on, although if you watch the video, which I recommend, you can even wheel them on.

 

So I'll be having a towbar and the bike carrier weighs 19 kg. Add the weight of the towbar and two ebikes at about 20 kg each and that's a bit of weight on the back end.

 

I can't find out the rear axle loading for the 3500 and the 3850 variants although I'm sure an email to Hymer will get a quick answer.

 

 

Rear axle load 2000kg, your tow bar may be quite a bit heaver than you think due to there being no chassis extention. Having just looked under the back of mine not sure if it's possible to fit a tow bar it would certainly reduce ground clearance a fair bit. Mine is one of the longer ones at 7.2m probably easier on the shorter vans.

 

Should I ultimately buy from the UK, which is still an option, I phoned my nearest Hymer dealer, which confirmed the 2000kg for the standard model. I suspected that would be the figure as it's the same as my Hobby.

 

They didn't know the figure for the 3850 kg models but are finding out. Interestingly, they told me that they couldn't order a new Hymer with a towing bracket as it's not approved in the UK. They did however say that I could have a towbar fitted by a specialist such as Towtal, which I've used before.

 

I was told that it may take a few days to get the info from Hymer as they're all in Dusseldorf, but I'm in no hurry.

 

[lennyhb]

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 3:30 PM

 

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 3:13 PM

 

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 2:33 PM

 

 

I don't want a conventional bike rack fitted on the rear wall. Every time I accidentally miss a sleeping policeman it feels as though the weight of the bikes will rip the back off. And it's difficult lifting a heavy ebike so high.

 

I have one of these, http://goo.gl/WdOVIo and it's brilliant. Low down, so very easy to lift the bikes on, although if you watch the video, which I recommend, you can even wheel them on.

 

So I'll be having a towbar and the bike carrier weighs 19 kg. Add the weight of the towbar and two ebikes at about 20 kg each and that's a bit of weight on the back end.

 

I can't find out the rear axle loading for the 3500 and the 3850 variants although I'm sure an email to Hymer will get a quick answer.

 

 

Rear axle load 2000kg, your tow bar may be quite a bit heaver than you think due to there being no chassis extention. Having just looked under the back of mine not sure if it's possible to fit a tow bar it would certainly reduce ground clearance a fair bit. Mine is one of the longer ones at 7.2m probably easier on the shorter vans.

 

Should I ultimately buy from the UK, which is still an option, I phoned my nearest Hymer dealer, which confirmed the 2000kg for the standard model. I suspected that would be the figure as it's the same as my Hobby.

 

They didn't know the figure for the 3850 kg models but are finding out. Interestingly, they told me that they couldn't order a new Hymer with a towing bracket as it's not approved in the UK. They did however say that I could have a towbar fitted by a specialist such as Towtal, which I've used before.

 

 

I was told that it may take a few days to get the info from Hymer as they're all in Dusseldorf, but I'm in no hurry.

 

Axle loading on the 3850 is 2000kg as it is still on the light chassis with 15" wheels. 4250kg Maxi chassis I think is 2400kg.

[Guest JudgeMental]

my van on 4 ton maxi chassis..its impossible to overload the 2400 axle in a panel van.

 

I dont get buying a large camper with garage and not using it for bikes, and extending the length even more....

 

I'm sure the Hymers feasible @ 3500 Kg......Kirbys a worry puss :-D

[Guest Had Enough]

JudgeMental - 2014-09-01 4:26 PM

 

my van on 4 ton maxi chassis..its impossible to overload the 2400 axle in a panel van.

 

I dont get buying a large camper with garage and not using it for bikes, and extending the length even more....

 

I'm sure the Hymers feasible @ 3500 Kg......Kirbys a worry puss :-D

 

It's because bike storage is the most inefficient use of a garage. Most of the space they take up is air and it makes it hard to store boxes and recliners etc. I have a large garage now and tried bikes in it but soon gave up. And it's a hell of a struggle to get them in and out without the other stuff getting in the way.

 

It's so easy to put my bikes on and off my Thule carrier, leaving the garage for other things, including a spare wheel, which just lies on the floor.

 

I'm interested though to read about your chassis as I was wondering how your bikes and a heavy carrier might impact on a 'normal' chassis.

 

I'm seriously considering the Fiat Maxi 4.25 that Lennyhb mentioned. If I'm going to go over the 3.5 ton level I might as well do it properly. I've looked it up in the price list and it's only a couple of grand.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

"Only a couple of grand" that would buy you a decent e bike :D

 

Maxi also means harsher ride, more agricultural. You have to play about with tyre pressure to get the best ride, once you've had it weighed fully loaded in holiday mode..Thanks to Derek's input I achieved that. For European touring I dont think you can ignore the over 3500Kg restrictions.

 

I lost my C1 entitlement due to diabetes years ago and with a young family manged at 3500Kg and that in an overcab CB. Unless going for something real big or poorly constructed 3500 should be enough for most..unless you fall into everything including the kitchen sink mentality. Over the years we have cut back again and again but still bring to much stuff with us.

 

edit: in holiday mode/bikes on rack rear axle was under 2000Kg...was astonished to be honest, all up weight 70 kg short on the 3500kg (weighed it on way to tunnel)

[lennyhb]

Eddie the Exsis are all on Al-Ko chassis different world could not believe the difference in ride quality compared to our last Hymer and I thought that was good, do not think there will be a problem with ride.

 

Eddie, is your van downplated to 3500kg or have you got your C1 back?

 

Edit:

Just noticed your note 70kg under 3500kg answers my question.

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 3:13 PM..................Rear axle load 2000kg, your tow bar may be quite a bit heaver than you think due to there being no chassis extention. Having just looked under the back of mine not sure if it's possible to fit a tow bar it would cetainly reduce ground clearance a fair bit. ................

2013 German pricelist for X250 based Exsis-i models lists the towbar at €1,590 and 63kg.

 

It will have to be Type Approved and, AFAIK, only AlKo towbars are TA for AlKo chassis.

 

It says it can be fitted to all versions, but I'd seriously consider going to the heavy chassis to get the greater (presumed) ground clearance from the 16" wheels and the higher (unknown) rear axle load.

 

If the rear overhang is substantial I'd still be a bit wary of grounding the towbar on abrupt transitions (ferry ramps, sleeping policemen, uphill hairpins etc). Needs careful evaluation, I think, and probbaly better on a van with minimal overhang.

 

Interesting yours gets a bit light at the front with a full water tank Lenny, I haven't noticed this as yet. Traction and directional stability both remain very good under all conditions so far encountered, and we have encountered quite a lot of conditions! :-D

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2014-09-01 6:04 PM

 

2013 German pricelist for X250 based Exsis-i models lists the towbar at €1,590 and 63kg.

 

Yep I got it wrong.

 

Interesting yours gets a bit light at the front with a full water tank Lenny, I haven't noticed this as yet. Traction and directional stability both remain very good under all conditions so far encountered, and we have encountered quite a lot of conditions! :-D

 

Mines bigger than yours (lol) & has a longer wheelbase, find it a bit lighter only around 70 or above. Also a couple of weeks ago my daughter was with us an my wife moved from the passenger seat to the dinette seat when cruising about 65 I could notice the difference - 45 kg moving about 4 feet.

Must get her to loose some weight then I won't have a payload problem :D

 

Edit:

Maybe your boss is a lot heavier than mine. (lol)

[lennyhb]

Another point in favor of Hymer A Class is the passenger seat is offset of the base by about 3" inches makes quite a difference to the room between the seats. I don't know if any other A Class manufacturers do this, I know Carthago don't.

[alan k]

I'm following this discussion with great interest, we're off in the morning, 2nd stop, Dusseldorf for thorough research into what we might want to change to next year. I'm also following the buy in Europe vs the UK and want to get some proper idea of what the savings might be.

 

We like the twin beds and garage layout, we like our current Hobby Van Exclusive, its narrower than most and we cans till manage with that but we would like some additional berths for the grandkids in the next couple of years. We looked at the Ford Exsis when we bought our Hobby but couldn't get a sensible price out of Hymer UK at that time and plumped for the Hobby.

 

So we'll be looking at the Hymer and the Compactline Carthago as a start and see where we get from there. My head will probably be buzzing when we set off south towards Italy.

 

The 3500kgs may or may not be an issue, there's another 5 years or so before the 70 licence issue and if its over 3500kgs, the rest of the family can't use it, but as my mate says is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Anyway a most interesting discussion, and then the other one is do we invest in ebikes?

 

cheers alan

[lennyhb]

Even though Hymer say the price is the same in the UK it's odd that you can save over 10k buying over the water.

 

We tossed up to go for lockers instead of drop down bed, went for the bed in the end. Only had the van a few months and have used the bed a couple of times in the last month our daughter has come with us to a couple of vintage music/dance festivals.

 

Not much to be had in the way of deals on Carthago's, my mate ended up buying from a UK dealer at Dusseldorf who very closely matched foregin prices, but could of saved a couple of K buying abroad as pound had moved by by delivery time, if the £ had gone the other way would have would have been worse off buying abroad.

Don't get that problem with Hymers as the saving is so large, a couple of K either way you still save a packet.

[Guest Had Enough]

Well I did it! I've just had an enjoyable day out taking the scenic route over the Woodhead Pass to Nottinghamshire and done a deal on a six-month-old LHD Hymer B Class 590 Starline.

 

Thank you Brian Kirby for telling me about Edgehill Motorhomes with whom I am very impressed. A thoroughly professional operation who know their trade inside out.

 

Thanks to LennyHB for encouraging me to consider an A Class after I was wavering and plumping for another coachbuilt. The sense of space, the fabulous seats and the drop-down bed just wouldn't be the same in a CB.

 

The 'van blows my mind. Three litre Mercedes with a seven speed proper auto box and over a ton payload. It's various features are just brilliant.

 

Edgehill will do the type approval and register it with the DVLA, which could take four weeks or more and they're fitting me a full Gaslow set-up and a 140 watt solar panel.

 

It doesn't need anything doing to the speedo, which is KPH on the dial and can be changed to MPH on the central digital readout and the headlamps convert by flicking a lever apparently.

 

Can't wait! (lol)

 

Something did occur to me on the drive home, which I know will be explained on handover but how do you inflate the inner wheel on the tag axle? Something I'd not thought of before. *-)