Scottish nationalists after tomorrow.

[Guest Joe90]

I lived through the militant period of the Welsh nationalists flexing their nationalism, with scenes exactly as you describe. The partial answer came with Welsh Assembly, I say "partial" as nationalism is alive and well in Wales, given minority protected status along with the Cornish recently, to protect their language and culture, is that a particularly good thing I don't know, planning matters have to consider the impact on the language and culture before permission is granted for housing developments for example, one of the reasons no doubt that most parts of Wales remain unchanged.

 

[nowtelse2do]

•News

•Scottish News

•Racism

MSPs demand action is taken after figures reveal anti-English racism is on the rise in Scotland Dec 12, 2012 00:01

 

•By David Clegg

•33 Comments

 

LIB DEM leader Willie Rennie insists this form of racism is as bad as any other and must not be tolerated in 21st century Scotland.

 

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Malcolm Brown suffered face injuries and anti-English abuse when he confronted a thug harassing people at a bus stop

 

FEARS were raised by official crime figures yesterday that anti-English racism is on the increase in Scotland.

 

Racist incidents rose in the last year for the first time in five years.

 

And the number of cases where the victims were described as “white British” soared to 1295 – up 24 per cent on the year before and 57 per cent since 2004-5.

 

The figures do not give a detailed breakdown of the nature of the incidents, but a significant number of them involved “white on white” abuse of people from other parts of the UK.

 

Twenty-two per cent of victims were described as “white British”. And 95 per cent of the bigots to blame for racist incidents were white.

 

Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie last night urged the Scottish Government to act to protect English people living here, and said abuse of our neighbours by Scots was “just as bad as any other form of racism”.

 

Rennie said: “These figures are particularly concerning, due to the increase in racist incidents against white British.

 

“We cannot allow anti-English rhetoric to creep into society and the SNP Government must do all it can to combat this.

 

“While racism against some ethnic groups is falling, it is still far too prevalent in Scottish society.

 

“This includes racist abuse directed towards the English, which cannot be tolerated.”

Thugs plead guilty after vile attack on Asian woman and pregnant friend

Overall, the number of racist incidents grew to 5389 last year from 4911 the year before. The number of crimes with a racial element also rose, from 6179 to 6472.

 

Of the cases where the victim’s ethnic origin was known, 44 per cent involved the abuse of Asian people – classed in the report as Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese or other Asian.

 

The largest single group among the victims were people of Pakistani origin, who made up 23 per cent of the total.

 

But just behind them, at 22 per cent, were “white British” victims. The figures come from the police and were released by the Scottish Government.

 

Community safety minister Roseanna Cunningham said the overall rise in racism in 2011-12 was “disheartening” after recent falls. And she vowed not to let a mindless minority of bigots sully Scotland’s

good name.

 

She said: “Scotland has an outstanding reputation as a welcoming and tolerant nation and we cannot let a minority of people tarnish our image.

 

“We want Scotland to be a country where all our people can live free from fear and discrimination.”

 

Cunningham said the Government were spending £6million up to 2015 to combat “bigotry and hatred of all kinds”.

 

She added: “Regardless of the reasons for the increase, we must continue with the work we are doing to tackle racism and hatred in all its forms.”

 

Cunningham suggested the increase might be explained by more victims coming forward, because they were

now confident the police would take them seriously.

 

And that view was echoed by Dr Christopher Thorpe, an English-born sociologist living in Scotland who said he had experienced anti-English racism himself.

 

Dr Thorpe, of Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen, said he was not convinced the figures proved racism was on the rise. He added: “It could be quite the opposite.

 

“There is more awareness now of the problem of racism and that means more people are reporting it.”

 

The figures reveal that Friday and Saturday nights were the worst times for racist incidents, suggesting alcohol is a factor in the problem.

 

Around 75 per cent of the cases were reported to the procurator fiscal, while 10 per cent resulted in no further action.

 

Scottish Labour justice spokesman Lewis Macdonald said the increase was “deeply worrying”. He added: “It shows we can never simply sit back and think that the fight for equality and tolerance has been won.

 

“We need to ensure that our schools and public services are alert to any signs of racism and that where it rears its ugly head, it is tackled forcefully and swiftly.”

 

Tory MSP John Lamont said: “Some areas, such as incidents against those of Pakistani origin, are improving, and it’s important we understand why that is and transfer that success to other areas.

 

“However, others have gone up, such as attacks on white British, and we have to know the reasons. If it is an increase in anti-English behaviour from those living in Scotland, we have to treat it with the same severity we do any other racist incident.”

 

Alastair Pringle, director of the Equality and Human Rights Commission in Scotland, director, said the rise could be down to “an underlying growth in tensions”.

 

But he added: “It could also be a result of increased confidence in the police and courts’ ability to deal with racial crime.”

The victim - Malcolm Brown

A MINDLESS thug punched Malcolm Brown in the face and called him “English b******”.

 

The 66-year-old retired merchant navy captain needed surgery for a broken cheekbone after the attack at an Edinburgh bus stop in August.

 

Malcolm, originally from Hull, told a ned off for verbally abusing other people in the queue, and the yob turned on him because of his accent.

 

He said: “He lashed out at me for being English. He just kept calling me a f****** English b******. I made the mistake of turning away and then he hit me. He got me on the right side of my face.

 

“The other people at the bus stop had to hold me back.”

 

Malcolm added: “My wife was shocked. She was standing there next to me.”

 

He still suffers numbness in his cheek after the attack.

 

Malcolm has lived in Scotland for 47 years and had not once experienced anti-English racism before the assault.

 

He said: “It was when he realised I was English that the trouble really started.

 

“It was obvious that my being English was what was behind it.”

 

Malcolm’s many friends from Scotland were disgusted by the attack.

 

He said: “They thought it was disgusting

 

 

 

Note the year...2012. Has it improved or got worse.

 

There are certain things I've seen over the past few weeks that looked very much like intimidation and racism

 

Dave

[Colin Leake]

Me I'm just glad it's all over at last. We just got fed up with all the coverage with every pundit simply saying the same thing over and over again. We go to Scotland every two years in May before the midges and love it.

 

Just come back from Wales. I was struggling to understand what a couple of kids who had stopped to pet the dog were on about untill it suddenly dawned on me they were talking to me in Welsh!, we love Wales and the welsh as well.

[capcloser]

We had a laugh last time we went to scotland,partner is just awful at understanding regional accents so everytime someone spoke to him he just looked at me,i kid you not,if we're not in east anglia i have to translate for him!.The lady in the supermarket asked him if he wanted a bag----------- three times,in the end he said I'm sorry i dont want a lottery ticket!,i could have helped but i was laughing too much.Another time in a coffee shop in amsterdam we spoke for about an hour to some guys from new zealand,after they left he said i didnt know you spoke dutch!I'm laughing about it now.I dont know what it is,he just doesn't have an ear for accents >:-)

[flicka]

It's not taken long for the vote to create division, on another forum reports of violence& back to gang warfare days in Glasgow tonight. That forum said it's worse than the old Celtic v Rangers clashes. Alex Salmon (? spelling) resigns ( guess he anticipated it could happen) & got out before he would have to do something to avoid what's happening.

[p0930]

I am aScot who has spent a great deal of time working and holidaying in The British Isles. I have never seen myself as different in any respect to my English neighbours but my currency is refused every time I try to use it in England, I am constantly referred to as "Jock" or a "sheep sh----r", it is alluded I am mean, I am violent, argumentative and above all anti English.

Neither am I a political animal but I do look around and see things that I do believe are unjust just as many of our English, Welsh and Irish neighbours do too.

All I ask, is to judge us on what you personally experience, not on the views of the media or on the actions of a small minority who exist in every Nationality.

We have all seen the damage that intolerant attitudes can bring to a Nation, we do not want it here.

An 85% poll turn out demonstrates that Scottish Democracy is an example to all and should be celebrated by all parts of the UK not denigrated by the type of remarks in some of the foregoing posts.

[Guest Joe90]

Whilst agreeing with much of what you say there can be no denying that for many just the word nationalism has connotations bordering on racism, and in the case of the SNP Salmond giving an interview on radio 4 could barely disguise his dislike for the English, and like it or not, that is why so many bought into his view of a " free" Scotland......free of the English, he did his best to root out the more extreme in the party, as he was astute enough to know that was what was required. He was and is a cunning politician, but ultimately in my opinion driven by a " Braveheart" mentality seeing the English as the enemy, and with such a large proportion of the Scots apparently buying into that view will make for interesting times to come.

[Mikey]

Never felt intimidated in any place I have visited over a good number of years and countries when meeting people. A number of occasions yobs of various Nationalities have been a concern. I would expect motorhomers, who travel and meet others are very adaptable. Have met some who make comments on me being Scottish, but always in a friendly way. I think we all need to enjoy our travels and thank God we are not at war.

[Ashpark]

Joe90 - 2014-09-20 10:38 AM

 

Whilst agreeing with much of what you say there can be no denying that for many just the word nationalism has connotations bordering on racism, and in the case of the SNP Salmond giving an interview on radio 4 could barely disguise his dislike for the English, and like it or not, that is why so many bought into his view of a " free" Scotland......free of the English, he did his best to root out the more extreme in the party, as he was astute enough to know that was what was required. He was and is a cunning politician, but ultimately in my opinion driven by a " Braveheart" mentality seeing the English as the enemy, and with such a large proportion of the Scots apparently buying into that view will make for interesting times to come.

 

Seriously Joe, the more you post on this subject, the greater you show your ignorance of Scotland and Scottish people. Ever heard the old one about stopping digging when you're in a hole?

[nowtelse2do]

Ashpark - 2014-09-20 4:01 PM

 

Joe90 - 2014-09-20 10:38 AM

 

Whilst agreeing with much of what you say there can be no denying that for many just the word nationalism has connotations bordering on racism, and in the case of the SNP Salmond giving an interview on radio 4 could barely disguise his dislike for the English, and like it or not, that is why so many bought into his view of a " free" Scotland......free of the English, he did his best to root out the more extreme in the party, as he was astute enough to know that was what was required. He was and is a cunning politician, but ultimately in my opinion driven by a " Braveheart" mentality seeing the English as the enemy, and with such a large proportion of the Scots apparently buying into that view will make for interesting times to come.

 

Seriously Joe, the more you post on this subject, the greater you show your ignorance of Scotland and Scottish people. Ever heard the old one about stopping digging when you're in a hole?

 

Seems to me you have only one view and that's your own, which of course your entiled too, just as Joe90 has his. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly) we are all not experts on every subject, that would be a boring world .

 

Dave

[peacock312]

My daughter has lived happily near Aberdeen for the last 17 years.

She is married to a Scottish man,she has two young Scottish children,she is an executive for a wholly Scottish company.

She has received many verbal abuses in the last year and especially the last three months from low class yobs and high class intelligent people,just because she is English.

So have her English work colleagues, her English friends and kneighbers.a yes campaigner recently issued threats to herself and a kneighbor for not admitting which way they would vote.

Salmond and co have created so much division in this lovely country,and after yesterday's result I feel this only the beginning of more hatred of the English.

I have visited Scotland,all over,for seventeen years now and love this country but I have noticed a stronger nationalism developing recently,even in the wealthier places like Aberdeen.

It's such a shame.

I do advise all motorhomers,go to Scotland,but be carefull where you park,who you talk to,avoid some hot spot pubs,be very carefull about placing an opinion about independence.

My daughter,like many English is considering coming back to England if it gets worse,but then the problem is she will bring a Scottish husband and children with her,will the English start to feel anti Scottish as Scotland gets more powers?

Whatever the politics,I repeat,this is such a shame in a lovely country.

[arthur49]

I'm a Scot and lived in Scotland most of my life.

 

It is true that the Referendum stirred up some real conflict within families, with friends, and neighbours. For that reason I did not openly broadcast how I intended to vote. I certainly would not pin a Yes or No sticker to my house, car, motorhome or jacket, as I feared a minority of troublemakers with the opposite view might target me and/or my property.

 

Just as some English people will 'hate' the Scots it is also true that the converse applies. But they are very much a tiny minority.

 

We have four English neighbours. They had and have no problems of intimidation from the Scots. They voted in the Referendum - I don't know how they voted - but round here (Perth) I've seen no evidence of problems.

 

Do not confuse dislike of the English with dislike of Westminster. The latter is a real issue if you live outside London or the South East. Example - a few months back, panic amongst politicians about a 'housing bubble'. What housing bubble? The one in London/SE? There is no housing bubble in most of the UK, so get a grip Westminster and look beyond the big smoke.

 

Now the Referendum is past and I can remain anonymous, I can tell you I voted 'No' with no hesitation. But do not confuse that with the belief that all is well in Westminster. Places like Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham need devolved powers to ensure a more sensible and fair government. Be interesting to see what the attached produces

http://www.respublica.org.uk/item/Devo-Max-for-Manchester-a-new-model-of-public-service-delivery-vscw

 

Finally, Scotland is a great place to holiday. The vast majority of people are friendly and welcoming, so do not be put off by reports otherwise. Its just a pity about the midges that can be troublesome in some areas during the summer months ..... and the weather is not as good as the Med!!

 

Ceud mìle fàilte

 

:-D

[candapack]

I'm a Scot. I voted Yes.

I have absolutely no anti English feelings. I don't know any Scots who do.

Like England, like any group of people - even this forum - we have a few idiots who get more than their fair share of media exposure. They are not representative of the vast majority.

You will still be as welcome here as I am sure you have always felt previously.

Ceud mille failte.