Fiat comfortmatic

[Don636]

When I ordered my van I ticked the upgrade option but this did not include the hill hold function and to be honest I was not aware that this was available. My car has a torque converter auto box and this will hold the car on an incline (up to a point) and is just another function that makes life easier without thinking about it. I have two other cars that have a normal handbrake and I have no problem with this either - does not bother me one way or the other.

 

In the Fiat Ducato having to use the handbrake is a real pain as I almost never release it fully first time as it is such a stretch. If I had to use the handbrake at every stop it would drive me nuts so I simply left foot brake. As I understand it the hill hold facility is using the brakes in the same way so I am doing the same thing that hill hold does. It does take a bit of practice to left foot brake smoothly and safely but not much and it takes all the hassle out of stopping and starting.

 

By the way, has anyone fitted a handbrake extender and does it work well in practice?

[Brian Kirby]

Poppy - 2014-10-07 11:25 AM............... Not trying to save money.Didn't know it didn't have it.Every automatic I have ever driven has had one.Never crossed my mind that this one didn't and the dealer didn't enlighten us.However we do manage perfectly well with the old fashioned hand brake.

Sorry Poppy, my comment was not directed at you, or at whether or not you wished to save money or otherwise. I was merely expressing the opinion that the comfortmatic, without that relatively low cost but very useful addition (I didn't have to specify it as it was included as standard within the Hymer package), loses a good chunk of its relative value - something I think your were hinting at yourself. I can well understand your irritation at finding the standard spec on yours omitted it. What a bummer!

[StuartO]

No personal experience of Comfortmatic and as I recall when I ordered my current MH (in late 2005) it was only being talked about - and wasn't there a development hitch and delay of some sort?

 

This thread has been very interesting to read and now that Comfortmatic clearly has become a reliable option, theconcept of an ordinary manual gearbox with clever added bits to do all the work begins to be very appealing. Presumably the Comfortmatic has the full power and torque-handling abilities of the manual version and therefore unlike "normal" automatic gearboxes, doesn't have limiations on the MH's towing capacity, nor does it prevent the vehicle from being towed.

 

By the way my late 2005 Fiat manual gearbox failed spectacularly after only a few weeks of service (big crunching noise followed by inability to get gears properly) and Fiat replaced the gearbox under warranty. No prolems since, so I suspect it was a freak internal component failure.

[John Day]

I have a new Hymer 3.0 B678 with Comfortmatic, silly question, but how do I know if it's got 'hill start'? It certainly rolls back on hills if I don't use the handbrake, do I have to do anything to make it kick in. There's nothing in the handbook!! or is there?

Also, is it me or does the comfortmatic handbook bear no relation to what you actually have to do to start up and pull away.

John

[lennyhb]

If it's a Hymer and it's new (not one that's been in stock for 2 or 3 years) it should have Hill Holder. I know Hymer started fitting to Hill Holder to most models certainly all A Class vans in either 2012 or 2013 but I thought they have always had it with the Comformatic although I'm not a 100% certain.

 

Should be easy to test, drive up a steep hill stop, do not apply the hand brake, take foot off the brake the hill Holder should hold it for approx 2 seconds, when you pull away you can usually feel it release.

Gentle slopes, slight inclines it may / may not work, it certainly works better than the one on my car.

[Muswell]

On my Transit there is a light in the instrument cluster which comes on when the hill start is operating, doesn't the Fiat have the same? By operating I mean it only comes on when you actually do a start.

[lennyhb]

No light on Fiat neither does my car have one.

[pepe63xnotuse]

.. if the things in front are getting smaller, whilst the things behind are getting bigger, then I'd take that as an indication that it's not "operating"... (lol)

[Brian Kirby]

Either that, or you're parked in the overtaking lane of a motorway! :-D

[Brian Kirby]

John Day - 2014-10-08 12:21 AM

 

I have a new Hymer 3.0 B678 with Comfortmatic, silly question, but how do I know if it's got 'hill start'? It certainly rolls back on hills if I don't use the handbrake, do I have to do anything to make it kick in. There's nothing in the handbook!! or is there?

Also, is it me or does the comfortmatic handbook bear no relation to what you actually have to do to start up and pull away.

John

The Comfortmatic handbook is lousily written (or lousily translated).

 

The first rule is to always stop the engine with the box in gear. If you try stopping with the box in neutral, it bleeps.

 

On re-start, place foot on brake pedal before turning ignition key and, as soon as the engine is running, move the gear selector to N. Otherwise, it bleeps.

 

To drive away, foot on brake pedal again, select A, M or R, transfer foot from brake to accelerator, and off you go. If you try engaging a gear without your foot on the brake, it bleeps.

 

Don't open the driver's door for a better view when manoeuvring slowly, because the box then selects neutral. It also starts bleeping!

 

If you drive more than a handful of yards without buckling your seatbelt - it bleeps.

 

It is a system designed primarily to protect Italian drivers from themselves. Actually driving the vehicle is a purely secondary consideration! :-D

 

Finally, with the Hymer, remember to retract the habitation step before starting the engine, because the much louder Hymer bleeper will just add crescendo to the cacophony! If I can find that bleeper I'm going to strangle it - and then substitute a flashing LED. Peace, man! :-)

[armstrongpiper]

For Don 636

 

I have used a Handbrake extender from Specialised Vehicle Options, linked to Motability, for 8 years now, previously on a 2006 Autosleeper Peugot, and latterly on 2008 Fiat X250 3ltr Comfortmatic. It has proved to be easily fitted and good to use. It wasn't cheap (about £85 back in 2006) but has made all the difference in accessing the handbrake lever. Check out their website for a short video of the thing is use.

As for the Comfortmatc, I wouldn't have another manual Motorhome, be it robotised or conventional auto. I start the engine, stick it in Auto, and off we go. Marvellous.

 

Neil B

[Muswell]

pepe63 - 2014-10-08 10:02 AM

 

.. if the things in front are getting smaller, whilst the things behind are getting bigger, then I'd take that as an indication that it's not "operating"... (lol)

 

Or an audible warning from the vehicle behind :$ . I quite often have to manoeuvre in a tight space on a steep hill and it's nice to know that the system has engaged.

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2014-10-08 11:19 AM

 

Finally, with the Hymer, remember to retract the habitation step before starting the engine, because the much louder Hymer bleeper will just add crescendo to the cacophony! If I can find that bleeper I'm going to strangle it - and then substitute a flashing LED. Peace, man! :-)

 

It's under the passenger seat Brian beside the step relay box, I moved the relay & buzzer back to make room at the front for warning triangle & hi-vis vests.

[pepe63xnotuse]

armstrongpiper - 2014-10-08 12:04 PM

 

I have used a Handbrake extender from Specialised Vehicle Options, linked to Motability, for 8 years now, previously on a 2006 Autosleeper Peugot, and latterly on 2008 Fiat X250 3ltr Comfortmatic. It has proved to be easily fitted and good to use. It wasn't cheap (about £85 back in 2006) but has made all the difference in accessing the handbrake lever.

 

Neil B

 

Neil can I be cheeky and ask if you find that it gets in the way of exiting the cab(obviously not an issue with an A class that doesn't have a driver door or maybe if some other access mods/aids have been fitted)..

http://www.svoptions.co.uk/handbrake-and-gearshift

 

It's just that I fitted a Rare Spares extender to a previous van and although it was a quality item and it certainly made reaching the handbrake easier, it was a pain in the backside(quite literally, sometimes 8-) ) when exiting the cab...

http://prime-function.co.uk/rare-spares/frameset.htm

 

[armstrongpiper]

Yes, I do sometimes catch the handle, getting out of the cab door. It can get caught up in loose pullovers, etc, and it can rotate on its mounting clamps, but I have never had it accidentally disengage the brakes. One other thing - it must be disengaged to rotate the driver's seat, so chock the wheels and engage a gear before doing the rotate. We very rarely do rotate the seats, so this doesn't bother me.

 

Neil B

[pepe63xnotuse]

armstrongpiper - 2014-10-08 3:05 PM

 

Yes, I do sometimes catch the handle, getting out of the cab door. It can get caught up in loose pullovers..

 

Neil B

 

Yes, we found that with our Rare Spares one..you'd "launch" yourself out of the cab and then come an abrupt halt, to be left snagged and dangling.

...although it could sometimes disengage the handbrake as well ..

 

You could however, swivel the seat with the handbrake still engaged(..you pulled a pin and the handle would drop down out of the way).

 

That was one of the things I didn't like about our X250..the handbrake was too low and it felt to me, to be on the wrong side... :-S

[John Day]

Brian Kirby - 2014-10-08 11:19 AM

 

John Day - 2014-10-08 12:21 AM

 

I have a new Hymer 3.0 B678 with Comfortmatic, silly question, but how do I know if it's got 'hill start'? It certainly rolls back on hills if I don't use the handbrake, do I have to do anything to make it kick in. There's nothing in the handbook!! or is there?

Also, is it me or does the comfortmatic handbook bear no relation to what you actually have to do to start up and pull away.

John

The Comfortmatic handbook is lousily written (or lousily translated).

 

The first rule is to always stop the engine with the box in gear. If you try stopping with the box in neutral, it bleeps.

 

On re-start, place foot on brake pedal before turning ignition key and, as soon as the engine is running, move the gear selector to N. Otherwise, it bleeps.

 

To drive away, foot on brake pedal again, select A, M or R, transfer foot from brake to accelerator, and off you go. If you try engaging a gear without your foot on the brake, it bleeps.

 

Don't open the driver's door for a better view when manoeuvring slowly, because the box then selects neutral. It also starts bleeping!

 

If you drive more than a handful of yards without buckling your seatbelt - it bleeps.

 

It is a system designed primarily to protect Italian drivers from themselves. Actually driving the vehicle is a purely secondary consideration! :-D

 

Finally, with the Hymer, remember to retract the habitation step before starting the engine, because the much louder Hymer bleeper will just add crescendo to the cacophony! If I can find that bleeper I'm going to strangle it - and then substitute a flashing LED. Peace, man! :-)

 

Thanks for that Brian, glad its the translation and not me. Regarding the 'Hill Holder', mine doesn't hold so have to get it looked at, it does mention it in the handbook P112. Also it does state, "Important the hill Holder is NOT a parking brake............."

John

[John Day]

Just a though, if you want to lift the bonnet for a listen to the engine, with it running of course, what gear do you select?? there's no 'Park'... Netural!! (lol)

[lennyhb]

Neutral, the clutch will be dis-engaged, also if in gear and stationary the clutch will will be dis-engaged but if you put any pressure on the throttle it will engage so play safe make sure it is in neutral.

[John Day]

Thanks Lenny, it seem sensible. also who but the Italians would design a gearbox when driving in Manual mode you push the gear stick 'UP' to change down and 'DOWN' to change up 8-) and DON'T anybody mention reverse :-D

 

[lennyhb]

John Day - 2014-10-09 3:47 PM

also who but the Italians would design a gearbox when driving in Manual mode you push the gear stick 'UP' to change down and 'DOWN' to change up 8-) and DON'T anybody mention reverse :-D

 

Yep, I've got it wrong a few times. (lol)

And lost count of the amount of times I've tried to pull away with no effect having tried to go straight from reverse to 1st which in practice you can't do, have to go via neutral with foot on the brake.

[Steve928]

John Day - 2014-10-09 3:47 PM

who but the Italians would design a gearbox when driving in Manual mode you push the gear stick 'UP' to change down and 'DOWN' to change up 8-) and DON'T anybody mention reverse :-D

 

Seems logical to me; forward/up being a downshift (lower gear) while back/down is an upshift (higher gear).

I think that's how the race and rally boys on the tele do it too.

Perhaps I've got Italian ancestry..

 

 

[Rayjsj]

Rayjsj - 2014-10-05 5:55 PM

 

As the Clutch is integral in the Comformatic set-up ( ie The Driver does not choose to operate the clutch,the computer does) does that mean that the Clutch linings are Included in the 3 year warranty now ? After all, they were only left out of the Warranty because 'Driving style' could affect clutch wear, that is now not the case. Any comments on this ? Ray

 

 

No one has actually answered my question, unfortunately I cannot alter my Driveway(It's Steep,AND I have to reverse up it), and Autotrail do not convert onto Mercedes Sprinter bases ( providing a Torque converter auto) any more. So ? do I relpace my van with one that has a Comfortmatic gearbox ? and if i do and 'the little robot' burns out the clutch trying to reverse up my driveway, who pays ?? the' little Fiat Robot' in the guise of my 3 year warranty ? or me ?

Ray

 

oops ! I mentioned 'Reverse'.

[StuartO]

Rayjsj - 2014-10-09 4:12 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2014-10-05 5:55 PM

 

As the Clutch is integral in the Comformatic set-up ( ie The Driver does not choose to operate the clutch,the computer does) does that mean that the Clutch linings are Included in the 3 year warranty now ? After all, they were only left out of the Warranty because 'Driving style' could affect clutch wear, that is now not the case. Any comments on this ? Ray

 

 

No one has actually answered my question, unfortunately I cannot alter my Driveway(It's Steep,AND I have to reverse up it), and Autotrail do not convert onto Mercedes Sprinter bases ( providing a Torque converter auto) any more. So ? do I relpace my van with one that has a Comfortmatic gearbox ? and if i do and 'the little robot' burns out the clutch trying to reverse up my driveway, who pays ?? the' little Fiat Robot' in the guise of my 3 year warranty ? or me ?

Ray

 

oops ! I mentioned 'Reverse'.

 

You could try asking a motorhome dealer if the new MH he wants to sell you can cope with reversing up your steep drive and on the strength of his assurance you could then try rejecting the vehicle as unfit for purpose and demand your money back. You would need a record of his assurance to achieve this and he might back off from giving it if you wave a sound recorder under his nose. He might, if he's an experienced salesman who smells the rat your are presenting him with, duck the question anyway.

 

You could also demand an answer from Fiat about the clutch-under-warranty question, and they might give you the answer you want, but I wouldn't hold your breath while waiting for it. Vehicle suppliers just don't guarantee specific things like that.

 

My 2006 Fiat with a manual gearbox judders like hell if it's asked to reverse up any sort of slope and the clutch starts smoking and smelling uf I do, so I try very hard to avoid doing so. MHs are always operating close to their maxium weight and reversing up a slope is bound to be hard work for them. The reverse gear of the Ducato power unit under my bonnet seems to me to be too high a ratio for the job. Later models might be different but reversing a heavily loaded MH up a slope as the routine way of parking it strikes me as an unrealistic aim.

 

Either change your house, install a winch system to haul it up the slope or arrange to store your MH elsewhere.

[Derek Uzzell]

John Day - 2014-10-08 3:35 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2014-10-08 11:19 AM

 

John Day - 2014-10-08 12:21 AM

 

I have a new Hymer 3.0 B678 with Comfortmatic, silly question, but how do I know if it's got 'hill start'? It certainly rolls back on hills if I don't use the handbrake, do I have to do anything to make it kick in. There's nothing in the handbook!! or is there?

Also, is it me or does the comfortmatic handbook bear no relation to what you actually have to do to start up and pull away.

John

The Comfortmatic handbook is lousily written (or lousily translated).

 

The first rule is to always stop the engine with the box in gear. If you try stopping with the box in neutral, it bleeps.

 

On re-start, place foot on brake pedal before turning ignition key and, as soon as the engine is running, move the gear selector to N. Otherwise, it bleeps.

 

To drive away, foot on brake pedal again, select A, M or R, transfer foot from brake to accelerator, and off you go. If you try engaging a gear without your foot on the brake, it bleeps.

 

Don't open the driver's door for a better view when manoeuvring slowly, because the box then selects neutral. It also starts bleeping!

 

If you drive more than a handful of yards without buckling your seatbelt - it bleeps.

 

It is a system designed primarily to protect Italian drivers from themselves. Actually driving the vehicle is a purely secondary consideration! :-D

 

Finally, with the Hymer, remember to retract the habitation step before starting the engine, because the much louder Hymer bleeper will just add crescendo to the cacophony! If I can find that bleeper I'm going to strangle it - and then substitute a flashing LED. Peace, man! :-)

 

Thanks for that Brian, glad its the translation and not me. Regarding the 'Hill Holder', mine doesn't hold so have to get it looked at, it does mention it in the handbook P112. Also it does state, "Important the hill Holder is NOT a parking brake............."

John

 

“Hill Holder” is an integral element of a Ducato’s Electronic Stability Program (ESP).

 

ESP was an option on X250 Ducato models and is standardised on the latest X290. However (as has been discussed elsewhere) it remains possible for motorhome manufacturers to ‘deselect’ ESP from an X290’s standard specification if they so choose. If an X250- or X290-based motorhome does not have ESP, it cannot have Hill Holder.

 

There will be a description of Hill Holder’s operation in your main Ducato Owner Handbook. I’m not certain what the situation is with Comfortmatic-equipped Ducatos, but my understanding is that manual-transmission Ducatos with ESP will also have the AntiSlip Regulator (ASR) feature (essentially ’traction control’) that can be disabled by a dashboard-mounted “ASR” push-button. So, if a Ducato has an ASR-button it has ESP, and if it has ESP it should also have Hill Holder. Apparently (according to the handbook) there is also a warning light on the dashboard (somewhere!) that will indicate Hill Holder presence/failure.

 

"HILL HOLDER FAILURE (amber)

(for versions/markets, where provided)

When the key is turned to the MAR-ON position the warning light comes on but should go out after a few seconds.”

 

It may be that your new Hymer does not have ESP and, if that’s the case, it won’t have the Hill Holder feature (and it won’t be possible to retro-fit ESP or Hill Holder).

 

If your Hymer does have ESP it should also have Hill Holder. If you can be sure it has ESP, you may want to check the description of Hill Holder’s functionality in the main Ducato Owner Handook as it’s possible you may be expecting Hill Holder to operate in situations outside its design ‘window’.