candapack Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Went to see some new vans at our chosen local dealer today. Mainly, a Burstner "55" edition with fixed double bed. Ticked all the boxes, spent some time lying on the bed in various positions ( :$ ), all good. Separate shower, a bit tight but OK. But toilet, hopeless. Could sit on it with door closed, but (people with tender sensibilities read no further), any post-movement ablutions would have proved extremely awkward. And I would describe OH and self as pretty normally sized. Rejected. So, had a look at some new Autosleepers (which is our current 8 years old van), and decided the best for us was the modern version of what we have. Lots of improvements, but, smaller shower, smaller toilet area, narrower beds when made up as singles, kitchen sink without built in drainer, darker/flimsier furniture. So, realised we like current van, will keep current van, and will keep about £35,000 - result. (Well, for a while anyway!!) PS, we have a leak from the N/S window (hab area), so I bought some Sikaflex 221 while at the dealer. Made sure it was white, at checkout saw the tube was damaged, went back to display to change it, got home, had picked up a black one. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 We have just been through a similar process, asked the garage who do our maintenace to have a good look over it for signs of problems that could arise they said it looks almost new underneath and runs great, a great little van for whoever buys it. I decided that if it is good for someone else it is good enough for us. We will get it reupholstered in March for less than two grand and maybe spend a few hundred quid doing other bits and pieces, new sat nav and rear view cameras. Save our selves £20000 to be spent touring around Europe. :-D :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 And think of the VAT youve saved youself !! Pp:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ How odd, I thought you'd be along in a minute when you read this thread. You get flak for suggesting we all ride around in your "bargain bangers" that's a totally different ball game to keeping a relatively new tried and tested van, which I am fully in agreement with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ I'll try to answer from our particular perspective Dave. Risk is measured by proportion, of which I'm sure you're aware so no need to labour that particular point. It's the 'latest bit of bling' that puzzles me. We were happy with our 11 year old van but are appreciative of some very basic facts. Base vehicle safety including ABS, air bags air con, and better handling have improved, (or are now standard) on new (er) vehicles. To say nothing of MPG improvement. There's nothing 'bling' there Dave. Bling comes along in the van, lighting, no rattles, heating, , supreme comfort on all seating, driving and sleeping areas. I won't go on. If we could've raised the standards of our much loved Autosleeper to modern day standards of comfort and equally importantly to us, safety, we'd have kept it and of course kept the £27k it cost us to change. The £27k is not for not having to work less, spend longer on holiday, spend more in restaurants, shop in M&S instead of Aldi, it's for our enhanced enjoyment of motorhome use. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 candapack - 2014-10-11 10:59 PM Went to see some new vans at our chosen local dealer today. Mainly, a Burstner "55" edition with fixed double bed. Ticked all the boxes, spent some time lying on the bed in various positions ( :$ ), all good. Separate shower, a bit tight but OK. But toilet, hopeless. Could sit on it with door closed, but (people with tender sensibilities read no further), any post-movement ablutions would have proved extremely awkward. And I would describe OH and self as pretty normally sized. Rejected. So, had a look at some new Autosleepers (which is our current 8 years old van), and decided the best for us was the modern version of what we have. Lots of improvements, but, smaller shower, smaller toilet area, narrower beds when made up as singles, kitchen sink without built in drainer, darker/flimsier furniture. So, realised we like current van, will keep current van, and will keep about £35,000 - result. (Well, for a while anyway!!) PS, we have a leak from the N/S window (hab area), so I bought some Sikaflex 221 while at the dealer. Made sure it was white, at checkout saw the tube was damaged, went back to display to change it, got home, had picked up a black one. >:-) If you are truly happy with your current 'van I'm not really sure why you were considering a change. I've just changed and wanted something better, that is easier to drive, more spacious and has far better facilities. Fortunately, I found exactly what I want so I bought it. You've considered two other makes and rejected them, but there are many more out there and who's to say that a bit more searching won't find exactly what you want, as it seems that your current 'van, although OK, isn't totally perfect, or why were you even thinking about changing it? If people can't afford a newer vehicle and have to run old ones for ever, good luck to them, and I hope that they can continue motorhoming until their 'vans finally fall apart, but if you can afford to upgrade, as you obviously can, then my advice would be to do so. I'm going to derive immense pleasure from my new motorhome and I really can't see the point of you or me scrimping and saving simply to leave our children a larger inheritance. My daughter will, if all goes as planned, get a few bob when I pop my clogs and I'm not really bothered if she gets a bit less because I like to get a nice new car every few years or treat myself to a lovely new motorhome. My advice would be, that if people can afford a new 'van and motorhoming is your main hobby and pleasure in life, think about yourself and your wife and don't worry about leaving a bit less to the sprogs. Go and treat yourself! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 LordThornber - 2014-10-12 10:11 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ I'll try to answer from our particular perspective Dave. Risk is measured by proportion, of which I'm sure you're aware so no need to labour that particular point. It's the 'latest bit of bling' that puzzles me. We were happy with our 11 year old van but are appreciative of some very basic facts. Base vehicle safety including ABS, air bags air con, and better handling have improved, (or are now standard) on new (er) vehicles. To say nothing of MPG improvement. There's nothing 'bling' there Dave. Bling comes along in the van, lighting, no rattles, heating, , supreme comfort on all seating, driving and sleeping areas. I won't go on. If we could've raised the standards of our much loved Autosleeper to modern day standards of comfort and equally importantly to us, safety, we'd have kept it and of course kept the £27k it cost us to change. The £27k is not for not having to work less, spend longer on holiday, spend more in restaurants, shop in M&S instead of Aldi, it's for our enhanced enjoyment of motorhome use. Martyn Have you seen my Transit post Martyn?.............. In the Transits case the safety equipment maybe more numerous, but if you roll a van/camper at 70 will it make much difference? :-S............ In the driving stakes its most deffo a step backwards, neither comfortable or economical in my short experience ;-)...........the ride and handling is identical between my 99 and 2013 tranny which I put down to the LWB not fancy mechanical's...........as the handling in my SWB tranny was white knuckle above 60 mph...........but much improved with the airbags B-) ............... So in my view the Transit very much a case of style over substance, cant really comment on Sevel vans as I've only ever driven my Old mans Hymer when we brought him back from Spain, which struggled up hills being heavy and front wheel drive ;-) ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi Dave, no, not seen your Tranny post. I've no experience of one either, I was speaking from 14 years and 3 vans of Sevel experience. Each has improved. Just like the next one will too no doubt. As for rolling a van at 70mph, it's not really something I factor in regarding safety, what's the point, you'd probably not get out of bed for a pee working on that train of thought. Well I wouldn't anyway. But having 2 airbags and ABS is. So is cruise and aircon. On our annual trek to the Dordogne, until this year we've arrived sticky and with an aching right ankle. This year, frexh as a daisy and no aching ankle. Before the pedants advise me to use less autoroute and more stops, dont waste your itchy fingers. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Having started with a Pilote R580 on a Talbot base I fully agree with you about progress. Power steering is nowadays standard, electrically adjustable mirrors and cab windows are very convenient as is cruise control. I wouln't like to go back to the Pilote even though it was a beautifully finished m.h. and ideal for us with our needs at the time. Very interested to read the comments about the Burstner in the original post. I'm going from a Flash S2 which has what must be one of the biggest washrooms available to a Hobby Siesta which is about the same size as the t690G. Hope that I won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 LordThornber - 2014-10-12 12:47 PM Hi Dave, no, not seen your Tranny post. I've no experience of one either, I was speaking from 14 years and 3 vans of Sevel experience. Each has improved. Just like the next one will too no doubt. As for rolling a van at 70mph, it's not really something I factor in regarding safety, what's the point, you'd probably not get out of bed for a pee working on that train of thought. Well I wouldn't anyway. But having 2 airbags and ABS is. So is cruise and aircon. On our annual trek to the Dordogne, until this year we've arrived sticky and with an aching right ankle. This year, frexh as a daisy and no aching ankle. Before the pedants advise me to use less autoroute and more stops, dont waste your itchy fingers. Martyn My 99 Tranny has aircon.........although it needs regassing :D.........it did have ABS but I had it stripped out when it kept..... going wrong..... I might consider having it refitted when I've got a V6 under the bonnet B-) .............. Had cruise on the car until....... it went wrong.........rarely used it.........what I do like is a proper auto gearbox not one of these semi auto types, I had that in the 99 Tranny..........until it went wrong *-) ....... I found the best way to avoid an aching ankle in Horace on the way to Dordogneshire, is to take a week to get there (lol) , although we no longer cross the ditch for anything less than a month ;-)............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 mikejkay - 2014-10-12 2:13 PM Having started with a Pilote R580 on a Talbot base I fully agree with you about progress. Power steering is nowadays standard, electrically adjustable mirrors and cab windows are very convenient as is cruise control. I wouln't like to go back to the Pilote even though it was a beautifully finished m.h. and ideal for us with our needs at the time. Very interested to read the comments about the Burstner in the original post. I'm going from a Flash S2 which has what must be one of the biggest washrooms available to a Hobby Siesta which is about the same size as the t690G. Hope that I won't regret it. At risk of going off topic, interested to know why you've decided to move on from the Chausson S2? We've got one and like it a lot - had it 4 years from new. But we're considering swapping it for a PVC (with comfortmatic gearbox). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Mikebeaches - Two main reasons. The first is that we are going on a long trip to Norway next year and SWMBO has different sleeping habits to me so separate beds will reduce marital discord. The second is that I've got too old and decrepit to be repeatedly lifting bikes on and off the bike rack. I experimented with an electric bike this summer and, although the bike itself performed well, I still had to lift it on and off. A scooter beckons. Then I'll move on to a Harley and go out in a blaze of glory. There are a number of advantages with my new, yet to be collected, m.h. none of which would warrant a change. But there are several disadvantages apart from the loss of a huge washroom. During the course of searching for a new vehicle I discovered, to my horror, that all the extras that I had added at a not inconsiderable expense were worth nothing. Every dealer that I spoke to told me that I would only get "book" value for the m.h. So, reversing sensors, a heavy duty tow bar, a 150w solar panel, a 3000w inverter, a refillable LPG bottle and mirror guards made to difference to the p/x price offered. Indeed, I was told by several dealers that if I removed these items it would make no difference to the p/x offer. Guess what I am doing >:-) I, personally, would not go for a PVC. I've had one and didn't like it. I did look at the narrower (2.0-2.1m) coachbuilt/vans but decided that I needed that little bit of extra space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 mikejkay - 2014-10-12 2:13 PM Very interested to read the comments about the Burstner in the original post. I'm going from a Flash S2 which has what must be one of the biggest washrooms available to a Hobby Siesta which is about the same size as the t690G. Hope that I won't regret it. It was a t685, so different washroom. Sure yours will be OK. Good luck and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-10-12 10:41 AM You've considered two other makes and rejected them, but there are many more out there and who's to say that a bit more searching won't find exactly what you want, as it seems that your current 'van, although OK, isn't totally perfect, or why were you even thinking about changing it? Go and treat yourself! (lol) Re the makes, I am putting dealer location at number one priority, so restricted to what they sell, Burstner and Autosleeper, some others too but not for me. But, why was I looking - a good question. My van does have some faults - minor and fixable. There are some issues with size and layout, liveable with. But, over time recently, I had convinced myself that modern toys were a must have - cab air con, cruise control, fixed beds. All that hill hold stuff. Possibly a more refined engine so I could hear OH speak (hmmm, or possibly not.). I even used the lack of a passenger airbag to get OH onboard. Etc. And the vans, when we were in them, were indeed very very nice. It was close, but when we saw what we would be losing, as per OP, AND handing over in excess of £35k into the bargain, for us it was a no brainer. You decided to go for it, and well done for doing so. I'm sure you'll have fabulous times in what is clearly a fantastic van. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-12 9:52 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ How odd, I thought you'd be along in a minute when you read this thread. You get flak for suggesting we all ride around in your "bargain bangers" that's a totally different ball game to keeping a relatively new tried and tested van, which I am fully in agreement with. I think you miss my point with my bargain banger thread 1foot :-S ........... My purpose is to highlight campers that I consider to be a bargain, and in good original condition, based on the photo's provided along with their stated history ;-) ........... I reckon newbies could often save themselves from making an expensive mistake, by buying a bargain banger B-) ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 mikejkay - 2014-10-12 5:28 PM Mikebeaches - Two main reasons. The first is that we are going on a long trip to Norway next year and SWMBO has different sleeping habits to me so separate beds will reduce marital discord. The second is that I've got too old and decrepit to be repeatedly lifting bikes on and off the bike rack. I experimented with an electric bike this summer and, although the bike itself performed well, I still had to lift it on and off. A scooter beckons. Then I'll move on to a Harley and go out in a blaze of glory. There are a number of advantages with my new, yet to be collected, m.h. none of which would warrant a change. But there are several disadvantages apart from the loss of a huge washroom. During the course of searching for a new vehicle I discovered, to my horror, that all the extras that I had added at a not inconsiderable expense were worth nothing. Every dealer that I spoke to told me that I would only get "book" value for the m.h. So, reversing sensors, a heavy duty tow bar, a 150w solar panel, a 3000w inverter, a refillable LPG bottle and mirror guards made to difference to the p/x price offered. Indeed, I was told by several dealers that if I removed these items it would make no difference to the p/x offer. Guess what I am doing >:-) I, personally, would not go for a PVC. I've had one and didn't like it. I did look at the narrower (2.0-2.1m) coachbuilt/vans but decided that I needed that little bit of extra space. Many thanks for the insight! Funnily enough, the PVC we're thinking about - Globecar Campscout - offers fixed twin single beds. But it's the automatic/semi-automatic gearbox that's also a big priority for us. I've got a dodgy knee, and my other half prefers autos in any case. We realise it will be a tad smaller inside (although 14" longer), but we do enjoy exploring 'interesting' places, so think it should be easier and more relaxing to drive. We haven't got bike's, but I can understand your dilemma there. Shame about not getting anything back for the extras, but as you say, at least you can take some of the stuff off to transfer. Good luck in any case. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 pelmetman - 2014-10-12 6:06 PM Joe90 - 2014-10-12 9:52 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ How odd, I thought you'd be along in a minute when you read this thread. You get flak for suggesting we all ride around in your "bargain bangers" that's a totally different ball game to keeping a relatively new tried and tested van, which I am fully in agreement with. I think you miss my point with my bargain banger thread 1foot :-S ........... My purpose is to highlight campers that I consider to be a bargain, and in good original condition, based on the photo's provided along with their stated history ;-) ........... I reckon newbies could often save themselves from making an expensive mistake, by buying a bargain banger B-) ............. Oddly enough I know someone who against my advice went out earlier this year and bought a "trade" bargain banger, his rationale being wanting to try the motorhoming lifestyle before getting a reasonably newer van. It was an old petrol engined Talbot based coach built one, who's name escapes me for the moment. I wasn't at all surprised to hear just last week he had sold it at some considerable loss ( on Ebay of all places ) , after just one trip out his wife insisted she'd never set foot in one again, now she may have come to the same conclusion whatever the vehicle, but I can just imagine my missus wanting to go back to the kind of thing we had 25+ years ago as well, unrefined, noisy, and well let's face it, just total crap, even though we thought it good at the time. Just accept that your view is one of rose tinted specs,and tempered it seems by references to how your parents spent ( wasted ) their cash, people are perfectly free to waste their cash, but also the vast majority don't want yesterdays stuff if they can avoid it all. I tell you straight if I could afford a newer van I'd get one in an instant,even though my current van has got all the toys, cruise control, air con, etc, besides if there wasn't the mugs ( as you no doubt see them ) buying newer vans, there would be no bargain bangers would there ? So don't try to put folk off newer vans, I'm sure you will not be able to continue to weld and respray yours forever, their wasted money may be your next van 25 years down the line, then you'll sing it's praises no doubt, but hey, you'll still be 25 years out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-12 7:31 PM pelmetman - 2014-10-12 6:06 PM Joe90 - 2014-10-12 9:52 AM pelmetman - 2014-10-12 9:43 AM I get flak all the time for suggesting if folk are happy with their existing van..........keep it ;-) ............... Why run the risk of buying a lemon just to have the latest bit of bling? :-S ........ How odd, I thought you'd be along in a minute when you read this thread. You get flak for suggesting we all ride around in your "bargain bangers" that's a totally different ball game to keeping a relatively new tried and tested van, which I am fully in agreement with. I think you miss my point with my bargain banger thread 1foot :-S ........... My purpose is to highlight campers that I consider to be a bargain, and in good original condition, based on the photo's provided along with their stated history ;-) ........... I reckon newbies could often save themselves from making an expensive mistake, by buying a bargain banger B-) ............. Oddly enough I know someone who against my advice went out earlier this year and bought a "trade" bargain banger, his rationale being wanting to try the motorhoming lifestyle before getting a reasonably newer van. It was an old petrol engined Talbot based coach built one, who's name escapes me for the moment. I wasn't at all surprised to hear just last week he had sold it at some considerable loss ( on Ebay of all places ) , after just one trip out his wife insisted she'd never set foot in one again, now she may have come to the same conclusion whatever the vehicle, but I can just imagine my missus wanting to go back to the kind of thing we had 25+ years ago as well, unrefined, noisy, and well let's face it, just total crap, even though we thought it good at the time. Just accept that your view is one of rose tinted specs,and tempered it seems by references to how your parents spent ( wasted ) their cash, people are perfectly free to waste their cash, but also the vast majority don't want yesterdays stuff if they can avoid it all. I tell you straight if I could afford a newer van I'd get one in an instant,even though my current van has got all the toys, cruise control, air con, etc, besides if there wasn't the mugs ( as you no doubt see them ) buying newer vans, there would be no bargain bangers would there ? So don't try to put folk off newer vans, I'm sure you will not be able to continue to weld and respray yours forever, their wasted money may be your next van 25 years down the line, then you'll sing it's praises no doubt, but hey, you'll still be 25 years out of date. Still missing the point 1foot *-) ............25 years down the line there'll be a lot of four wheel caravans available (lol) ............. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-12 9:41 PM Whatever Correction........... my mistake they'll be a lot of four wheel "static" caravans available :D............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Cliffy - 2014-10-11 11:16 PM We have just been through a similar process, asked the garage who do our maintenace to have a good look over it for signs of problems that could arise they said it looks almost new underneath and runs great, a great little van for whoever buys it. I decided that if it is good for someone else it is good enough for us. We will get it reupholstered in March for less than two grand and maybe spend a few hundred quid doing other bits and pieces, new sat nav and rear view cameras. Save our selves £20000 to be spent touring around Europe. :-D :-D :-D Totally agree-we have done same and although van is now 8 yrs old, just had it serviced & checked over and mechanic says it's spot on. Maybe new tyres before trip to Spain but still leaves me £40k better off than trading in for a new van (Even if I could get the one I want-which I can't as there's no call for that model!!) Have fun in your old van-we will and more to spend outside it Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 To all those who have decided to stay with the van you have. You are not alone, a good proportion of my customers say they have come to a similar conclusion stating poor layout design, poor build quality and cheap fittings as prime reasons. Several of my customers have purchased new vans and have been so disappointed with them that they have sold the new van and bought an older model, which has a better build quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Gosh, progress in vehicle safety, comfort and reliability has improved. Who knew? Dave mentions 3 items that have all failed or require attention, well not for a second am I suggesting that modern vehicles are infallible - they're not, but it's light years away from previous incarnations. I repeat, vans have improved. If for whatever reason you're enjoying or enduring an older, (to you), van, and it meets your needs, well done. Not for me though, and if anyone wants to wade in with the old chestnut about having more money to spend on X Y or Z by not buying a new (er) van, don't please insult your own intelligence. Think about it, no seriously, think about it. If you're spending it on something else, you're prioritising. You just can't afford one. It's as simple as that. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 LordThornber - 2014-10-15 7:57 AM You just can't afford one. It's as simple as that. Martyn Really? :-S................I can put a brand new works van on my drive tomorrow for £2700, with a monthly payment of £250 which adds up to £5700 for the year........... my budget for doing up my existing vans bodywork and the engine change is about 6k so not much difference ;-) ............... The difference is the new van would cost £250 a month for 4 years.........So I can clearly afford it, and it would be a business expense as well :D ............. I prefer to improve what I've got, and get a vehicle that Mr Ford doesn't make, namely a comfortable, automatic, LEZ compliant van with a radio that works and none of those troublesome complicated electrics which the Mk 6 Tranny is well known for >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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