flyboyprowler Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I was surprised to find that our van was really close to the revenue weight of 3880 kgs, when we had our first MOT last week. There was virtually nothing on board, so we need to increase the weight to around 5 tonnes. The base is a sprinter long wheel base, and a 2 axle body, with a 3 ltr Mercedes motor. Has anyone done a weight change, or know what is required by the DVLA. I have tried to contact them by email, but the system isn't working, now there's a surprise! The chassis should go to around 7 tonnes, but the dealer seems to think that no mods will be required for a higher weight, and that the 3880 limit is only there for revenue purposes. Any thoughts there! Thanks all, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Ainsley, Talk to SV Tech Link they are the experts in re-plating and many on here have used them. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Your best bet is to contact SV Tec they will be able to tell you what is possible they do all the paperwork and issue a new plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks guys, SV tec it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The dealer seems confused, 3.5T is the cut off point for revenue and driving licences. What does it say on the metal plate under the bonnet and on your V5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 ...I'm no expert on the MB Sprinter (which is the likely basis for your vehicle), but things may well be a little more difficult than your dealer thinks. The maximum GVW for such vehicles is dictated by the version of the chassis on which they are built. They were provided in various different forms, with (in some cases significant e.g. twin rear wheels) technical differences to support increasing weights. I think it is unlikely, therefore, that you will be able easily to increase the GVW to even 5 tonnes (let alone 7!) 3880kg is a common value used for the 3xx versions of the chassis (the lighter end). There are certain indications that it might be possible to increase this to 4200kg as largely a paper exercise, but possibly no further. Of course, there is also a possibility that you have a 4xx or 5xx chassis, which would give further options, but 3880kg would be a downplate on these versions, and (unlike going down to 3500kg) I can't see any logical point in doing this, so I would think it unlikely. As above, SVTech will be able to advise, but I think it might be best to adjust your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-10-18 12:37 PM ...I'm no expert on the MB Sprinter (which is the likely basis for your vehicle), but things may well be a little more difficult than your dealer thinks. The maximum GVW for such vehicles is dictated by the version of the chassis on which they are built. They were provided in various different forms, with (in some cases significant e.g. twin rear wheels) technical differences to support increasing weights. I think it is unlikely, therefore, that you will be able easily to increase the GVW to even 5 tonnes (let alone 7!) 3880kg is a common value used for the 3xx versions of the chassis (the lighter end). There are certain indications that it might be possible to increase this to 4200kg as largely a paper exercise, but possibly no further. Of course, there is also a possibility that you have a 4xx or 5xx chassis, which would give further options, but 3880kg would be a downplate on these versions, and (unlike going down to 3500kg) I can't see any logical point in doing this, so I would think it unlikely. As above, SVTech will be able to advise, but I think it might be best to adjust your expectations. Thanks for the information. I have looked at all my paperwork, including that of the Sprinter, and can't find where the chassis reference is. Also, there is nothing on the makers plate, or the Mercedes builders plate. If you know where to find the reference that would be a great help. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southender Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 4,250 Kg will be your absolute maximum on the single wheel / single axle. If you are looking to go up to 5,000 Kg you will need to have twin wheel or tag axle. Lets see if the usual boys club find anything troll like in this post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I agree with the suggestion that you adjust your expectations! MH manufacturers exploit the chassis they buy as best they can to present favourable payload figures etc, so there is usually limited scope for upgrading. It's not just chassis design and suspension and tyres either, becaus ehte drive train components come into it too. Things like back axle ratios affect towing capacity. I'm in the process of investigating why Hymer restrict the towing capacity of the automatic version of their S Class of 2000-2006 when the underlying Mercedes Benz chassis (sold as the basis of pick up trucks and tippers) doesn't distinguish at all. Even SVTech couldn;t understand this restriction by Hymer, so I've got a nice man at Mercedes Benz trying to sort it out for me. He thinks it will probably turn out to be a drive train limitation and that upgrading will not be possible. We'll see. I think the bottom line is that the MH manufacturer will have already squeezed as much load and towing capacity as possible out of the underlying chassis so only occassionally will you be able to upgrade by much, if at all. Commercial vehicle manufacturers (like Fiat and Mercedes) also design their components and systems on the basis that they will only occasionally travel fully loaded, so things like road springs are specified accordingly. MHs might therefore benefit (for example from air-assisted suspension or tougher, progressive-type springs) but fitting these will not necesaarily mean that higher maximum load or trailer figures would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Southender - 2014-10-21 8:33 AM 4,250 Kg will be your absolute maximum on the single wheel / single axle. If you are looking to go up to 5,000 Kg you will need to have twin wheel or tag axle. Lets see if the usual boys club find anything troll like in this post ! .....your last sentence! . . . . Do I win a prize? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 StuartO - 2014-10-21 10:21 AM Even SVTech couldn;t understand this restriction by Hymer, so I've got a nice man at Mercedes Benz trying to sort it out for me. He thinks it will probably turn out to be a drive train limitation and that upgrading will not be possible. We'll see. I think the bottom line is that the MH manufacturer will have already squeezed as much load and towing capacity as possible out of the underlying chassis so only occassionally will you be able to upgrade by much, if at all. **************************************************************************************************************** Thank you for your thoughts. I would be very interested to know the outcome from your man at Mercedes. I too am on a MB Sprinter chassis, with an auto box and 3 ltr engine, made by Le Voyageur. I am fairly new to motorhomes, but I am surprised that manufactures build to such fine tolerances. I think that even with a single upgrade, were that possible, that when I need to carry my safari tent, BBQ, and a few supplies, that we would again be overweight. Heaven forbid I should want to carry a motorbike, or pull a trailer. It's probably no problem until you get stopped, weighed, or in the worst case involved in an accident, then if overweight, then the insurance is invalid. Next it's back to Le V for their thoughts, and a call to SV tech later today! Thanks again, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 So here's an update on today's findings. Le Voyageur can't help as I have a 3500 kg chassis, SV tech can only raise the max weight to 4000 kgs, which is not a lot of use, so we are at a conundrum!! :'( What about a different route? How do you work out the maximum towing weight? Maybe if we had a small trailer with a box and maybe a scooter to carry, then we could move some of the heavier stuff to the box, which would lower our on board weight? However we would have to add in the weight of the tow bar----DOH. I really like this MH, and at the end of the day, if nothing can be done, we will sell it on and get one with a heavy chassis. (?) A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi... Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but are you really sure that you're not just lugging around tat that you don't really need?..(we've all done/do it... :$ ) Although a trailer may help as far as the all-up payload is concerned, to my mind it's a bit of a "sticking plaster" approach...and that's fine if maybe your circumstances had changed(ie.new hobby required you to drag canoes/large motorbikes/race car etc)but if it's just so as to cope with ordinary "holiday" stuff(BBQ, awning etc), then you've just got the wrong van for you.... (..or,again, just carry too much stuff..? ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 flyboyprowler - 2014-10-21 9:16 PM What about a different route? How do you work out the maximum towing weight? A Gross Train weight minus Gross weight. Your van is 3880kg if your gross train weight is 5000kg your max towing weight will be 1120kg. The gross train weight should be the highest figure on the weight plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 flyboyprowler - 2014-10-21 9:16 PM So here's an update on today's findings. Le Voyageur can't help as I have a 3500 kg chassis, SV tech can only raise the max weight to 4000 kgs, which is not a lot of use, so we are at a conundrum!! :'( What about a different route? How do you work out the maximum towing weight? Maybe if we had a small trailer with a box and maybe a scooter to carry, then we could move some of the heavier stuff to the box, which would lower our on board weight? However we would have to add in the weight of the tow bar----DOH. I really like this MH, and at the end of the day, if nothing can be done, we will sell it on and get one with a heavy chassis. (?) A Motorhomes often tow luggage trailers and you can usually tow quite a bit of extra load that way if you need to. The fuel cost of towing a box van type trailer doesn;t seem too bad with a MH either, presumably because it's tucked behind the MH and doesn't create much extra drag. I've towed a GoldWing motorcycle and lugage in an Ifor Williams BV105, as pictured below. SVTech being able to re-plate to 4,000 kg (from 3,500 kg?) sounds worthwhile to me, but check that it won't come off your towing capacity. I sopke to my Mercedes man again yesterday, to try to chase him up. He's on the case but I'll have to be patient. He's not hopeful of a means of upgrading; he reckons that the limitation will be something like a different back axle ratio for the auto gearbox, with no option to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 flyboyprowler - 2014-10-21 9:16 PM So here's an update on today's findings. Le Voyageur can't help as I have a 3500 kg chassis, SV tech can only raise the max weight to 4000 kgs, which is not a lot of use, so we are at a conundrum!! :'( What about a different route? How do you work out the maximum towing weight? Maybe if we had a small trailer with a box and maybe a scooter to carry, then we could move some of the heavier stuff to the box, which would lower our on board weight? However we would have to add in the weight of the tow bar----DOH. I really like this MH, and at the end of the day, if nothing can be done, we will sell it on and get one with a heavy chassis. (?) A Before you do, I'd suggest you check the loads on the axles, to see how much capacity each has. I assume that info is also in the MoT information. I'd also suggest taking the van to a weighbridge for a second opinion. There just may be an error somewhere. The point is that vans tend to run out of payload on one, or other, axle before they run out of MAM. There would be little point in adding the loads of a towbar plus trailer noseweight (about 150kg, depending on rear overhang) to a rear axle that is already near, or at, its limit. Has someone added a lot of accessortes to your van, so increasing its kerb weight? I'm just puzzled that you said it was virtually empty when tested, yet had almost no payload. But, it seems some of them have had unfeasibly slender payloads to duck under the 3,500kg driving licence limit. Just seen one on a Merc with only 360kg payload. Le Voyageur have always tended to be quite large vans, though they have made a few shorter models in the past, and with length inevitably comes weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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