Engine Size for 7 Berth Motorhome

[jeffo]

Hi.

 

I have made an offer on a 7 berth Rimor Katamarano Sound.

 

The layout is perfect for my family of 4, with the occassional use of 6 seats.

 

The van is 6.83 m long, with a 140 hp 2.2l engine. It is a ford base.

 

will this be sufficient?

 

thanks

Jeff

[JohnP]

Because your family of four are considering taking two family friends. One question, does it have six seat belt fitted?

[StuartO]

2.2 litres sounds small but 140 hp is actually quite a lot, so apart from having to change gear on hills if you are fully loaded, it will probably be OK.

 

But check the payload of the vehicle carefully. Six people is potentially nearly 500 kg, more if they are fat adults, so you might have very limited load carrying capacity. Towing a luggage trailer might solve that problem but you could also have a very limited towing capacity or even a chassis which won't take a towbar at all, so check before you buy.

[Steve928]

StuartO - 2014-10-24 8:45 AM

Six people is potentially nearly 500 kg, more if they are fat adults, so you might have very limited load carrying capacity.

 

Google suggests that this a 3500Kg. chassis with a MIRO of around 3150Kg. so please do as Stuart suggests and carefully check that you understand the various weights, including individual axle limits, to ensure that it will indeed be possible to put bums on all those seats.

[Robinhood]

The 2.2 140 is more than adequate in my 6.75 metre 'van, BUT, travelling 3-up begins to challenge the 3500kg GVW, despite a very decent initial payload.

 

As per above, I would be wary of the capability to legally carry 4-people with belongings on an extended holiday (especially if the 'van has aftermarket accessories eating into the payload, and/or you plan to carry "toys" such as bicycles, etc.), let alone 6.

 

 

[jeffo]

What happens if you inadvertently exceed the 3500kg limit?

 

I appreciate that the limit exists for a reason, but why would they put 7 seatbelts in the van if there is no possibility of carrying that many people?

 

I have had a hard time searching for a sub 7m 7 berth home, so finding this one seems to be ideal.

 

We will be carrying bicycles, and the motorhome currently does not have an awning which I will be looking to add. Presumably all of this adds to the weight limit.

 

a longer motorhome is not an option. the only option seems to be a larger engine, but presumably a larger engine also means more weight.

 

Since all motorhomes have the 3500kg limit unless they are twin axle and uprated, it would be inclined to not get hung up on that value. If I do I am not going to find ANY motorhome that meets my needs.

 

So back to the original question, and thank for for all of the information here, I am thinking that a 140hp 2.2l diesel should be ok in all but the most extreme circumstances for me.

 

thanks

[Steve928]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:28 AM

What happens if you inadvertently exceed the 3500kg limit?

 

You would be both breaking the law and driving uninsured.

[jeffo]

Steve928 - 2014-10-24 9:30 AM

 

You would be both breaking the law and driving uninsured.

 

So what do other people do? Presumably everyone else has this same problem.

 

As I said 99 times out of 100 we will carry 4 people, bikes, clothes. and a bit of food.

[terry1956]

Hi.the ford 2.2 engine is also fitted to the landrover defender and a few jags.its not the bhp you need to look at.the torque figure is the important one to see. Its the torgue that makes the engine suitable for pulling the weight or not.check that figure out and also how wide the power band is.in the landrover I had the engine was a total nightmare for pulling as the power band was far to narrow. Michael

[lennyhb]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:28 AM

 

 

We will be carrying bicycles, and the motorhome currently does not have an awning which I will be looking to add. Presumably all of this adds to the weight limit.

 

a longer motorhome is not an option. the only option seems to be a larger engine, but presumably a larger engine also means more weight.

 

Since all motorhomes have the 3500kg limit unless they are twin axle and uprated, it would be inclined to not get hung up on that value. If I do I am not going to find ANY motorhome that meets my needs.

 

So back to the original question, and thank for for all of the information here, I am thinking that a 140hp 2.2l diesel should be ok in all but the most extreme circumstances for me.

 

thanks

 

I don't believe the engine will be a problem with a 140 bhp it has plenty of grunt.

 

As others have said payload will be your problem, 350kg is not enough for 2 people let alone 4. Awning weight approx 10kg per metre so a 4 metre awning about 40 kg, 4 bikes about 55-60kg, bike rack 6kg.

 

Most 3500kg van can be uprated to 3850kg athough depending what tyres are fitted you may not get the full benefit as you will be limited by axle loading. If it's on a maxi type chassis may be possible to uprate to 4250kg.

To drive a van over 3500kg your license needs to have group C1.

There are lots of vans around with single rear axles with a gross weight of 4250kg.

[pepe63xnotuse]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:36 AM

 

Steve928 - 2014-10-24 9:30 AM

 

You would be both breaking the law and driving uninsured.

 

So what do other people do? Presumably everyone else has this same problem.

 

As I said 99 times out of 100 we will carry 4 people, bikes, clothes. and a bit of food.

 

Hi jeff

 

Yes,many others have the same problem. Some do choose to do something about it...ie "uprate/replate" the van(if feasible), just carry less clobber or choose a van with a better payload...

 

Some however are either, a) oblivious to the fact that their van, or an axle, is overloaded

or b) Know about it , but just don't think about it or if they do, they think the laws doesn't apply to them anyway. :-S

 

I would "guesstimate" that even with just the four people and their clobber, plus bikes(x4, hanging off a rear rack?), plus an *awning of sorts, it would be close, if not over, your limit...

(*as payload is an issue, then I'd forget all about a wind-out awning to be honest)

 

If you're really careful with what you carry and where in the van you load it, you may be able to manage...?

 

BUT it really does need checking thoroughly before you hand over your cash!

 

Get the dealer/seller to take it to a local weighbridge to get real-world axel weights..

 

(We had a 3-4 berth 7mtr low profile Chausson MH and with the two of us, once loaded in "going away mode" we were over the 3500kg limit and that was without any bikes etc...luckily, unbeknown to us at the time, it had already been "plated" at 3850kg)

 

As for the engine, it will be fine...many MHs trundle around with far punier units... ;-)

 

Sorry lenny, crossed your post :$

[Southender]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:28 AM

 

What happens if you inadvertently exceed the 3500kg limit?

 

 

thanks

 

You will be prosecuted and rightly so.

[Guest Peter James]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:28 AM

 

What happens if you inadvertently exceed the 3500kg limit?

 

The chances of being caught are statistically very small, but not negligible, and certainly more of a concern than the engine size.

If you are caught it sounds like you would be substantially over your licensed weight, resulting in a fine, penalty points, and having to offload the excess weight before continuing. It will not invalidate your legal minimum (third party) insurance, but may well invalidate any additional cover you have (comprehensive)

[AliB]

Southender - 2014-10-24 10:29 AM

 

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:28 AM

 

What happens if you inadvertently exceed the 3500kg limit?

 

 

thanks

 

You will be prosecuted and rightly so.

 

You will not be able to continue driving the vehicle if it is found to be over weight. You will either have to ofload items until you are below the required weight or have the vehicle recovered to a garage or your home. I doubt the testers would take too kindly to you leaving items on the roadside.

I have a 6 berth 6 seater on the Fiat Maxi chassis, 4000Kg with the 130BHP. Enough power for me. A downward gear change can be required on motorway hills but it is easy to maintain 60mph + on motorways. I have to concentrate hard to avoid the speed on German Autobahns creeping up to 80.

[Wasnt Me]

Hello

 

I have 2007 7 berth, Ford Transit mhome. With a 140bhp lump and twin wheels.

 

It has a maximum weight of 3850kg, which we got up to this year.

 

We took it over to the alpes and it was no problem at all and a pleasure to drive.

 

The commercial vehicle base and chassis is perfect for a mhome and its weight.

 

Enjoy it , just be careful not to go over the weight limit.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[StuartO]

jeffo - 2014-10-24 9:36 AM

 

Steve928 - 2014-10-24 9:30 AM

 

You would be both breaking the law and driving uninsured.

 

So what do other people do? Presumably everyone else has this same problem.

 

As I said 99 times out of 100 we will carry 4 people, bikes, clothes. and a bit of food.

 

There is also a significant risk of a tyre blowout if you are overloaded.

 

Our first MH blew out a rear tyre on the motorway. I assumed it was a freak tyre failure, then it happened again and I learned about payload. It only took about a minute of speed building up going downhill on the motorway to cause the blow out because the tyres were already overloaded, although I didn't realise it.

 

VOSA are now checking MHs randomly (or because they looklike they might be overloaded) because they are aware that lots of them are. But a fr more likely scenareo is being wieghed by the police (using portable equipment) after an accident, in which case if you turn out to be overloaded your insure would disown you and repudiate any claim.

 

Lots of motorhomes are manufactured and sold by dealers with seriously inadequate payloads and then loaded up with fixed accessories (like awnings, TV system etc) which eat into it. It's shameful that newcomers get misled into buying MHs which are unsuitable for the purpose but it happens, so beware.

[rolandrat]

If you think you will be overweight then get a tow bar fitted and put a box trailer on the back.

[Robinhood]

Wasn't Me - 2014-10-24 11:53 AM

 

Hello

 

I have 2007 7 berth, Ford Transit mhome. With a 140bhp lump and twin wheels.

 

It has a maximum weight of 3850kg, which we got up to this year.

 

We took it over to the alpes and it was no problem at all and a pleasure to drive.

 

The commercial vehicle base and chassis is perfect for a mhome and its weight.

 

Enjoy it , just be careful not to go over the weight limit.

 

Hope this helps.

 

...this, however, will be the RWD Transit, with a different 2.4 140 "lump".

 

This was fairly routinely uprated to 3850kg (from 3500kg) at the factory. The 2.2 140 was fitted in the FWD version, and (though I believe this may have been uprated under certain circumstance to 3650kg - with modifications) I don't believe any further is possible for the FWD.

 

 

[Guest Peter James]

StuartO - 2014-10-24 12:20 PM

if you turn out to be overloaded your insure would disown you and repudiate any claim.

Vehicle insurance has to meet the legal minimum (third party) standards or they are not allowed to sell it.

As I understand it they still have to cover you the legal minimum (third party) if you are overloaded.

Just like any vehicle insurance policy sold in the EU has to cover you the legal minimum (third party) throughout the EU for the full duration of the policy (although they don't advertise that fact because they like to sell you extra cover when you go abroad)

PS: I think you are getting confused with the additional voluntary cover (Comprehensive) They may well be able to get out of that if there is is something illegal about your vehicle. But think where it would lead if they could get out of paying any third party claim on a technicality like an (illegal) cracked tail lamp lens...

[Guest Peter James]

rolandrat - 2014-10-24 12:22 PM

 

If you think you will be overweight then get a tow bar fitted and put a box trailer on the back.

 

A 7 berth motorhome weighing in at 3150kg must be built no heavier than it needs to be. Are you sure the rear end is strong enough to take a towbar?

[pepe63xnotuse]

rolandrat - 2014-10-24 12:22 PM

 

If you think you will be overweight then get a tow bar fitted and put a box trailer on the back.

 

 

But this as a van that Jeff(the OP)doesn't yet own...so IF the usable payload turns out to be unworkable for his needs, then I would've thought the obvious course of action would be to not purchase the van in the first place....

 

As Peter implies, there's a chance that the rear end configuration and limits on the rear axle loading, doesn't leave much scope to take a tow bar and additional framework anyway...

[Derek Uzzell]

Details of a 2008-model Katamarano Sound’s layout and specification (plus photos) can be found here

 

http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/2008rimor/katamarano/katamaranosound/index.htm

 

As has already been advised, the Sound with 2.2litre motor was built on a 3.75m-wheelbase FWD Ford Transit chassis. The photos of the 2008 vehicle strongly suggest that Ford’s platform-cab chassis was employed rather than the Transit special ‘camping-car’ ladder-frame chassis and, if all FWD Sounds have that chassis, it’s unlikely that there would have been a Rimor upgrade above 3500kg.

 

The layout shows that the Sound can sleep 7 and the specification indicates that the vehicle was homologated to carry 6. No MIRO weight-figure is provided in the specification, but the 3150kg Steve928 mentions sounds about right.

 

The Sound was also built on a Transit RWD chassis and this probably could be obtained with a 3850kg maximum weight, or could be uprated to that weight fairly easily. This would (in my opinion) be much more suitable for ‘family’ use than the FWD version. An example is here:

 

http://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/rimor-katamarano-sound-ford-transit-7-berth-motorhome/1083460180

[StuartO]

Peter James - 2014-10-24 1:08 PM

 

StuartO - 2014-10-24 12:20 PM

if you turn out to be overloaded your insure would disown you and repudiate any claim.

Vehicle insurance has to meet the legal minimum (third party) standards or they are not allowed to sell it.

As I understand it they still have to cover you the legal minimum (third party) if you are overloaded.

Just like any vehicle insurance policy sold in the EU has to cover you the legal minimum (third party) throughout the EU for the full duration of the policy (although they don't advertise that fact because they like to sell you extra cover when you go abroad)

PS: I think you are getting confused with the additional voluntary cover (Comprehensive) They may well be able to get out of that if there is is something illegal about your vehicle. But think where it would lead if they could get out of paying any third party claim on a technicality like an (illegal) cracked tail lamp lens...

 

I was trying to be concise, because this thread isn't about insurance cover, so I didn't spellout precisely which parts of a policy might be repudiated.

 

Third party cover might indeed be retained (but only might) but you would certainly be at risk of waving goodbye to any prospect of recompense for damage to your own vehicle.

 

An insurance contract is a "contract of ultimate good faith" so it can be repudiated completely if you have seriously broken good faith for example by lying on the proposal form. If you thereby turn out to be an unisured driver, a damaged third party might be able to get something from elsewhere (for example in UK from the Motor Insurers' Bureau) but abroad that might be uncertain and they might get a lawyer to come after your house instead.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-10-24 2:09 PM

 

As has already been advised, the Sound with 2.2litre motor was built on a 3.75m-wheelbase FWD Ford Transit chassis. The photos of the 2008 vehicle strongly suggest that Ford’s platform-cab chassis was employed rather than the Transit special ‘camping-car’ ladder-frame chassis and, if all FWD Sounds have that chassis, it’s unlikely that there would have been a Rimor upgrade above 3500kg.

 

 

I previously noted that I thought this 3500kg chassis (which is the base vehicle for my 'van, in platform cab form) could be uprated to 3650kg.

 

In the case of my Hobby, I was wrong, the handbook specifically details that it can be uprated to 3850kg subject to the addition of Goldschmitt pneumatic springs.

 

Can't say I would relish the idea, though, unless a good proportion of that additional weight was acting on the front axle - it's quite light enough in use on there without even further cantilever effect!

 

I managed reasonably well 4-up in previous 'vans with a 3850kg GVW (but the payload was high, the kids were relatively light, and we travelled with minimum water).

 

 

[Brock]

The engine will be OK, giving steady progress.

 

From my experience 350kg will not be a sufficient loading margin for a family of 4. Five passengers may account for most of that before anything else is added. An average size adult with the correct Body Mass Index is said to weigh a tad below 80kgs so allowing for three adult passengers and two children, you might be talking of 320kg in passenger weight before other things are included.

 

The risk of being caught is low but slowly increasing as various traffic measures are targeting overloaded vehicles. The consequence of overloading is not just about the fines and penalty points you might incur, but the carnage should you have an accident through overloading.

 

Look elsewhere.