Guest Joe90 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Currently got the old Michelin camping tyres on, seems Agilis is the newer version camping tyre, anyone had them fitted at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Infinitely better than the older Michelin XC camping tyre. They are Mud and Snow rated, therefore legal for Winter touring abroad and give much better traction on grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I replaced my original Michelin X Camping tyres this Summer with Michelin Agilis Camping, the current equivalent. As mentioned these are marked "M+S", which means they qualify as winter tyres in Countries where they are a legal requirement over winter months. No complaints so far, they perform as advertised. I did shop around a bit and there are cheaper alternatives but you need to check load factors etc and since you only replace MH tyres once in a blue moon (mine still had plenty of tread after nealry nine years) I decided to go for the Michelins again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilmac Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Had them fitted as and when needed on my last van and our current van already has them fitted. Very good tyres :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Replaced mine this year at 45000 so can't complain. Avoided any compatible problems and went with the new version and have had no problems. Shopped around and the best price I got was from Black Circles who supplied to local tyre fitter to fit. Price was very competitive, got double Tesco points which tripled for the tunnel which means I got across for nothing ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Heard reports of many satisfied customers of Black Circles. One word of caution when buying this way (long distance selling) from ANY supplier. Ask for confirmation in writing of the date of manufacture stamped on the tyres. It is a 4 figure number showing the week and year of manufacture. You could end up with old stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I don't think mine had a chance to cool down from the press, 1414 is the number and that was being fitted in April. Thanks for the tip. The tyres are still hot as its about 28° here in Benidorm. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugga Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 We have them too and are very pleased with them. No problems so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Promobil magazine’s 2013 comparative test of six different 215/70 R15 tyres, using Boxer/Ducato panel-vans as the test vehicles, rated Continental’s “VancoCamper” pattern above Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” (respectively 7.9 out of 10 against 7.0 out of 10) with the Michelin tyre being significantly inferior when braking on both dry and wet asphalt surfaces. However, if a “CP”-marked tyre that is also “M+S”-marked is a prerequisite, then only “Agilis Camping” will meet those criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Slightly off topic, what I find strange is that Fiat appear to have done a deal with Contental and all the Fiat camper chassis now leave the factory with VancoCamper's on them. I find it odd as the majority of those chassis end up in Germany, where M&S tyres are required for winter use. I tried to order my Hymer with Michelin tyres for that reason - not possible they all come with Vanco's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm happy with mine. Not always easy to get hold of though so ensure you check availability and do not leave it until the last minute. I bought mine when ATS had a Michelin offer so although I had to wait two weeks for the tyres, I did get 5 for the price of 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Had some fitted as replacements to our last van. Specialist supplier filled them with nitrogen as he does with all the tyres he fits. I asked him what the advantage was and he told me with a grin that I would realy notice the difference on track days! He explained that because the nitrogen from his generator contained no moisture the tyres would hold a more consistent pressure no matter what temperature they were running at. Think you sometimes have to wait for camper tyres to be available? He told me one Lambo owner had to wait 16 months to,get a set of replacement rear tyres! I nearly forgot in answer to you question we were very impressed with the improvement over the original Michelin camper tyres. Having said that our present motorhome has Conintal Vanco Camper tyres and we've been very impressed with them as well. On a par with the agilis I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-24 2:51 PM Slightly off topic, what I find strange is that Fiat appear to have done a deal with Contental and all the Fiat camper chassis now leave the factory with VancoCamper's on them. I find it odd as the majority of those chassis end up in Germany, where M&S tyres are required for winter use. I tried to order my Hymer with Michelin tyres for that reason - not possible they all come with Vanco's. Slightly more OT (apologies) but I think that arrangement applies to Fiat chassis supplied to German converters. I'd expect chassis supplied to French converters to be Michelin shod, and probably those to Italian converters to be Pirelli shod. As we no longer have much of a tyre industry, those supplied to UK converters will, of course, be shod with whichever is cheapest. :-) The Germans are used to the idea that they need two sets of wheels and tyres (summer and winter), so won't spot the subterfuge, the French will claim that the majority of French motorhomers need M+S for their skiing holidays, so must have Michelin (otherwise this insistance would flaunt EU competition rules), and I have no explanation for the Italian preference, if true, except that someone must buy them! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Colin Leake - 2014-10-24 4:53 PM Had some fitted as replacements to our last van. Specialist supplier filled them with nitrogen as he does with all the tyres he fits. I asked him what the advantage was and he told me with a grin that I would realy notice the difference on track days! He explained that because the nitrogen from his generator contained no moisture the tyres would hold a more consistent pressure no matter what temperature they were running at. Think you sometimes have to wait for camper tyres to be available? He told me one Lambo owner had to wait 16 months to,get a set of replacement rear tyres! I nearly forgot in answer to you question we were very impressed with the improvement over the original Michelin camper tyres. Having said that our present motorhome has Conintal Vanco Camper tyres and we've been very impressed with them as well. On a par with the agilis I'd say. Thanks to everyone for their input, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Perhaps Italian buyers insist on a Pirelli Calendar with their MH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-24 2:51 PM Slightly off topic, what I find strange is that Fiat appear to have done a deal with Contental and all the Fiat camper chassis now leave the factory with VancoCamper's on them. I find it odd as the majority of those chassis end up in Germany, where M&S tyres are required for winter use. I tried to order my Hymer with Michelin tyres for that reason - not possible they all come with Vanco's. That was indeed so, but no longer. Earlier this year, it was reported in a French motorhome magazine that the contract for tyres factory-fitted to the latest X290 chassis destined for conversion into coachbuilt motorhomes had passed from Continental to Michelin. However, the situation seems to be more complex than that as I’ve seen X290-based motorhomes (both in the UK and in France) with VancoCamper tyres OR Agilis Camping. Based on observations at the recent NEC Show, the pattern seems to be that X290 coachbuilts (irrespective of the converter’s ’nationality') with steel wheels have VancoCamper tyres, while those with alloy wheels have Agilis Camping. As all the alloy wheels I’ve seen on X290s have been 16” diameter and all the steel wheels I’ve noticed with VancoCamper tyres on them have been 15” diameter, it may be that the wheel-diameter currently defines which make of tyre is fitted. (Yes, I know that sounds odd, but that seems to be the case.) As far as I’m aware Pirelli’s “Chrono Camper” pattern (that I think is now only offered in 225/75 R16 size by Pirelli) is not original equipment on any motorhome, nor ever has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-10-25 10:17 AM Based on observations at the recent NEC Show, the pattern seems to be that X290 coachbuilts (irrespective of the converter’s ’nationality') with steel wheels have VancoCamper tyres, while those with alloy wheels have Agilis Camping. As all the alloy wheels I’ve seen on X290s have been 16” diameter and all the steel wheels I’ve noticed with VancoCamper tyres on them have been 15” diameter, it may be that the wheel-diameter currently defines which make of tyre is fitted. (Yes, I know that sounds odd, but that seems to be the case.) That appeared to be the case when I picked up my X250 in April, my deal was going to swap the wheels for ones with Michelins but the only van in stock with Michelin's was one with 16" Alloys everything with 15" wheels had Vanco's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Replaced my first set this year after nearly 6 years.......excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-25 11:22 AM Derek Uzzell - 2014-10-25 10:17 AM Based on observations at the recent NEC Show, the pattern seems to be that X290 coachbuilts (irrespective of the converter’s ’nationality') with steel wheels have VancoCamper tyres, while those with alloy wheels have Agilis Camping. As all the alloy wheels I’ve seen on X290s have been 16” diameter and all the steel wheels I’ve noticed with VancoCamper tyres on them have been 15” diameter, it may be that the wheel-diameter currently defines which make of tyre is fitted. (Yes, I know that sounds odd, but that seems to be the case.) That appeared to be the case when I picked up my X250 in April, my deal was going to swap the wheels for ones with Michelins but the only van in stock with Michelin's was one with 16" Alloys everything with 15" wheels had Vanco's. Fiat’s UK brochure for the latest X290 Ducato shows 8 wheel/wheel-trim options, 3 relating to 15” wheels and 5 to 16”. Of the 16” options, 2 relate to the ‘Maxi’ chassis. Of the optional alloy wheels being offered, all-silver Fiat-branded 16” wheels are available for non-Maxi and Maxi chassis, while black and silver “Scorpion”-branded wheels (apparently in 15” and 16” size if Rapido’s brochure is to be believed) can also be specified. All the wheels I’ve seen with Michelin Agilis Camping on have been the Scorpion design. At the NEC Show’s Fiat Professional stand I inquired about the impact of opting for 16” wheels if the vehicle had 15” wheels as standard. The motorhomes I’d seen with 16” Scorpion wheels had 225/75 R16 tyres and, if the vehicle had the usual 215/70 R15 tyres as standard, the larger rolling-circumference of the 16” tyres would raise the overall gearing appreciably. Unfortunately the Fiat technician who might have been able to answer my question wasn’t on the stand at the time and I wasn’t sufficiently interested to make a return visit. I was assured by the lady I spoke to that Fiat would have taken such things into account, but I wasn’t totally convinced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 16" after market wheels would need to have lower profile tyres to keep the same overall circumference. 15" and 16' standard fiat wheels have different stud patterns and are not interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Ordered a 225/70/15 from Kwik Fit online fitted at local branch for £110 all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-10-26 9:45 AM I spoke to that Fiat would have taken such things into account, but I wasn’t totally convinced... Since Fiat deliver the Maxi van as standard with that profile of 16" tyre, I suspect it would be relatively easy for them to reprogram the electronics to take care of such things as the odo and speedo readings. Though the manual Maxi (at least in in 130 and 150bhp form) does have the same gearbox ratios as the "lesser" vans on 15" wheels, it also has a different final drive ratio to deal with that difference. It would be interesting to see if the factory fitting of 16" wheels on the non-Maxi chassis is also accompanied by this change (and from my reading, I suspect not). As an aside, it is only by looking for the above data that it became apparent to me that the Comfortmatic gearbox is not simply 'robotisation' of the manual ratios that would be fitted in the same van, but is a completely different ratio-set. It would be interesting to drive each back-to-back and assess any difference in on-the road characteristics. The picture below sets out the ratios for the 130/150/180 engines respectively. Edited for typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Billggski - 2014-10-26 8:45 PM 16" after market wheels would need to have lower profile tyres to keep the same overall circumference. 15" and 16' standard fiat wheels have different stud patterns and are not interchangeable. Prior to the latest X290 Ducato it was (apparently) possible to opt for Fiat-branded alloy wheels for X250 vehicles having the ‘Maxi’ chassis. In such cases the alloy wheel was 16” diameter and was designed to fit on the hubs used on the Maxi chassis. The tyre size was the same as used on the 16” steel wheel. That alloy wheel could not, of course, be fitted to non-Maxi-chassis Ducatos as those vehicles’ hubs were different. With the X290 16” Fiat-branded alloy wheels are now available for vehicles with Maxi or non-Maxi chassis. Presumably the hubs used on each of those two types of chassis continue to be different, in which case the 16” wheel would also have to match the hub. This would similarly be true for non-Fiat-branded wheels - the wheel would need to be appropriate for the hub. It was the tyre-size thing that intrigued me and why I sought to obtain information from Fiat at the NEC Show. New coachbuilt Ducatos are almost always factory-fitted with ‘camping-car’ tyres, with non-Maxi chassis models getting the 215/70 R15CP specification. If the 15” wheel is replaced with a 16” one, to maintain exactly the same gearing would require a tyre with the same rolling circumference - but there is no such camping-car tyre. Michelin and Continental both market a 225/65 R16CP size, but that still has a larger rolling circumference than the 215/70 R15CP. In any case, none of the X290 coachbuilt motorhomes with 16” wheels that I saw at the NEC had the 65-profile tyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Robinhood I assume those ratio data relate to the latest X290 Ducato? They bear some resemblance to the ratios quoted on the italiaspeed website for the X250 back in 2006 and I note that all the reverse-gear ratios are still higher than bottom gear. It was reported that Maxi-chassis X290s with 3.0litre motors would have a lower final-drive ratio than before and the figures reflect that. (Incidentally, I think the ’tooth-count’ in the final column should read 73/15 not 73/16.) Returning to the 16” wheel/tyre issue, the X290 Owner Handbook quotes just two wheel/tyre sizes for ‘recreational’ vehicles built on non-Maxi chassis - 15” wheels with 215/70 R15CP tyres or 16” wheels with 225/75 R16CP tyres. Rapido’s 2015 brochure supports this limitation by advising that opting for 16” Fiat alloy wheels for models with non-Maxi chassis will increase the motorhome’s height by 4.5cm. This is what one would expect if a 225/75 were used on a 16” wheel instead of a 215/70 R15 tyre on a 15” wheel. If it turns out that no gear-ratio changes are made when 16” wheels are fitted to non-Maxi chassis, there may be an unwelcome knock-on effect when a heavily-loaded motorhome is manoeuvring at slow speed on steep inclines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Derek Uzzell - 2014-10-27 2:23 PM Robinhood I assume those ratio data relate to the latest X290 Ducato? ...yes. The technical details on the UK site purportedly for the X290, are patently still the X250 ones. The above data is from the Fiat Germany site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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