Leisure battery

[Chausson driver]

Last year we bought our first motorhome, a 2009 Chausson Welcome 76 LHD. It's great except for the leisure battery which was replaced by the dealer when we bought it. We also have a solar panel. We usually stay on camp sites but a few weeks ago stayed on an aire. The battery was full when we arrived and we were very careful with lights in the evening. After one shower (quick one!) the next morning the battery was empty. It is now at the dealers, probably having a new battery put in. If I understood his French, he said it was 'dry'. What are we doing wrong? Any tips would be very welcome.

[terry1956]

Hi, looks like you are over charging the battery. If you are leaving your motorhome parked up for weeks on the mains you will depending on your zig unit type cook the battery. My autotrail as a very basic zig unit unlike the hymer I had before.so I use a good pair of battery keepers.one for the main battery and one for the leisure ones.this as worked for me for years now.michael

[Robinhood]

...on an otherwise good battery, finding it "dry", i.e. with low or no electrolyte left, is often a sign of overcharging.

 

It sounds like your charging circuit needs checking out, but, given that you have a solar panel, I'd first check that this is working though a solar regulator, rather than direct to the batteries (which is unlikely, but could cause the problem you have).

 

....of course, you could just have a duff battery, but I wouldn't fit a new on without doing checks.

 

With the engine running, check the voltage at the leisure battery terminals. Then, without it running, but on hook-up, do the same. Anything above 14.2 to 14.4v would indicate a problem, in either the engine charging circuit or mains charging circuit respectively.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

terry1956 - 2014-10-29 11:33 AM

 

Hi, looks like you are over charging the battery. If you are leaving your motorhome parked up for weeks on the mains you will depending on your zig unit type cook the battery. My autotrail as a very basic zig unit unlike the hymer I had before.so I use a good pair of battery keepers.one for the main battery and one for the leisure ones.this as worked for me for years now.michael

 

Michael

 

I hesitate to say this (and, hopefully, you won’t take it amiss) but the term ”zig unit” will be meaningless/confusing to many motorcaravanners nowadays.

 

The Caravan Club’s glossary of caravanning terms

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/glossary

 

defines “zig unit” as

 

"Zig Unit - The tradename of a popular brand of electrical control panel often fitted to caravans. Sometimes used as a generic terms for all such devices, irrespective of actual make.”

 

Zig Electronics (I believe the company is still up and running) produced separate control panels and battery chargers, and also control panels with an integrated charger.

 

(By “battery keepers”, do you mean lowish-output maintenance chargers of the type shown here http://tinyurl.com/mbyboj2 or something else?)

 

I believe a 2009 Chausson Welcome 76 would have an electrical system based around Italian-made CBE-branded equipment that (probably) included a PC-150 control panel and separate CBE-516 16A ‘switch-mode’ battery-charger.

 

The CBE-516 unit has a switch allowing selection of a charging regimen suitable for either ‘wet acid’ or ‘gel’ batteries. If the gel regimen were chosen when the battery being charged is ‘wet acid’, overcharging could well occur if the charger is operated regularly for long periods of time. It would be wise to check that the Chausson’s charger’s switch is appropriately set for the type of battery fitted to the motorhome.

 

http://www.cbe.it/sites/default/files/CB510-516.pdf

[terry1956]

Dont you have anything better to do.re the zig unit. It makes no odds if there is 13, 14 or 14.5 amps across the battery.its the type of charger thats important, and how long the battery is being charged for.batterys work and remain in good condition if they are working, not remaining on charge for days or weeks on end.michael

[Derek Uzzell]

terry1956 - 2014-10-29 5:37 PM

 

Dont you have anything better to do.re the zig unit. It makes no odds if there is 13, 14 or 14.5 amps across the battery.its the type of charger thats important, and how long the battery is being charged for.batterys work and remain in good condition if they are working, not remaining on charge for days or weeks on end.michael

 

Yes, of course it’s the type of battery-charger that’s important, but a “zig unit” is a control-panel not a battery-charger.

 

I began motorcaravanning in 1998 with a Herald motorhome that had a Zig-made control panel and a separate Zig-made battery-charger. I’m familiar with the term 'zig-unit' and I’m aware that it’s used indiscriminately and often inaccurately on UK leisure-vehicle forums (usually, it would seem, by ex-caravanners). Consequently I’m able to mentally translate your advice "If you are leaving your motorhome parked up for weeks on the mains you will depending on your zig unit type cook the battery” into "If you are leaving your motorhome parked up for weeks on the mains, you may (depending on the type of battery-charger fitted to your motorhome) cook the battery.

 

Suzanne (who asked the question) said that their Chausson was bought last year and was their first motorhome. If she is unfamiliar with the term ‘zig-unit’ (as I suspect may well be the case) your well-meaning advice may have been wasted.

 

If Suzanne’s Chausson has a CBE-516 switch-mode battery-charger (and the appropriate charging regimen has been selected) having the charger run for long periods - or even continuously when the vehicle is parked at home - should not harm the battery.

 

Personally, I’d rather not leave a battery-charger running continuously, but you’ll see from this 2010 discussion that others are happy with that practice.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Using-onboard-charger-for-long-periods/21522/

 

 

[terry1956]

Zig sag who the hell cares.over charging over a prolonged period is the course of the battery going dry. My old hymer looked after all the batterys over many months of none use.the autotrail unit is useless at most things.so using good battery keepers will sort the problem out.end of,

[sshortcircuit]

terry1956 - 2014-10-29 8:38 PM

 

Zig sag who the hell cares.over charging over a prolonged period is the course of the battery going dry. My old hymer looked after all the batterys over many months of none use.the autotrail unit is useless at most things.so using good battery keepers will sort the problem out.end of,

 

So are you saying Auto trail are fitting a charger that is not fit for purpose? I doubt it and have never heard of "good battery keepers" so am a bit bemused by your advise.

[Derek Uzzell]

terry1956 - 2014-10-29 8:38 PM

 

Zig sag who the hell cares.over charging over a prolonged period is the course of the battery going dry. My old hymer looked after all the batterys over many months of none use.the autotrail unit is useless at most things.so using good battery keepers will sort the problem out.end of,

 

Many motorcaravanners leave their motorhome connected to a mains power-supply when the vehicle is parked at home and it’s commonplace for motorcaravanners staying on campsites to have their motorhome connected to an electric hook-up (EHU) for the full duration of their stay.

 

If the assumptions I made earlier about Suzanne’s Chausson’s electrical system were correct (the control-panel should look something like the photo I’ve attached), the system SHOULD be able to maintain the vehicle’s batteries for long periods without ‘cooking’ them. A CBE-516 battery-charger is a 4-stage ‘IUoU’ type and is designed to manage a leisure-battery’s charge-state over an extended period of non-use as your Hymer’s charger did. Additionally, the CBE system is designed to direct a reduced voltage/amperage maintenance-charge to the motorhome’s starter-battery.

 

As you and Robinhood pointed out, a ‘wet’ battery that has lost its electrolyte is often a sign of it having been overcharged. Unless a motorcaravanner deliberately switches off the motorhome’s onboard battery-charger when the vehicle has been connected to an EHU, the battery-charger will operate continuously until the motorhome is disconnected from the EHU. I suspect that few people switch off the charger when on EHU. Having a solar panel is hardly a novelty and should not result in overcharging if it’s been correctly installed and is fault-free.

 

Suzanne’s Chausson’s leisure-battery (apparently) lost its electrolyte during a year’s usage. Assuming that the battery was new when it was installed a year ago and its electrolyte-level was correct then, that amount of electrolyte loss is not normal and Suzanne (new to motorcaravanning) has asked whether they have being something wrong.

 

I believe you are not suggesting that ‘user error’ has contributed to the Chausson’s battery’s electrolyte loss and the type of electrical system fitted to the Chausson should, if functioning correctly, not result in over-charging. But (as Robinhood advises) it would certainly be wise to have the Chausson’s charging circuit (including the solar panel) checked over to confirm that there’s nothing obviously wrong.

 

I’m doubtful that Suzanne can do a great deal herself to guard against this type of problem, though (if the type of battery being fitted by the dealer allows it) it would be worth checking the replacement battery’s electrolyte-level on a regular basis in future.

[Chausson driver]

Thank you all so much for taking so much trouble. Our control panel looks just like the one in the picture. In the winter we frequently hooked up the van to our mains electricity, believing that we needed to keep the battery charged. Also prior to staying on an aire on our way home from a trip to the Perigord, we stayed on camp sites and used EHU. So it was very frustrating when the battery emptied so quickly. We go to collect the van this afternoon and now have a good idea of the questions we need to ask. Hope my French is up to all the technicalities! I will report back!

[Chausson driver]

Well here I am reporting back after collecting our van from the dealers yesterday afternoon. A different technician from when we bought it told us that the battery was the wrong sort, probably a starter battery! As it had been replaced under the van's guarantee there was no paperwork to prove they had put it in. We managed to negotiate a 25% reduction on a new battery that doesn't need topping up. So we shall see. As an aside, I have to say that the dealership isn't one we will be returning to as service since we bought our van has been appalling. I am so grateful for all the helpful advice. At least we know the right questions to ask etc.

[747]

terry1956 - 2014-10-29 8:38 PM

 

Zig sag who the hell cares.over charging over a prolonged period is the course of the battery going dry. My old hymer looked after all the batterys over many months of none use.the autotrail unit is useless at most things.so using good battery keepers will sort the problem out.end of,

 

I have a European built motorhome which has a Reich ebox system fitted. The recommendation is NOT to leave the vehicle on hookup for long periods without use. Your old hymer possibly had the Electroblock system fitted which was reliable but certainly NOT a 'smart' charger.

 

I would suspect a faulty charger, mainly to someone I know putting his batteries on charge (on his drive). Luckily he was pottering about in the van when he heard a fizzing sound. Both his batteries were ruined in minutes because his CBE unit had developed a fault and was putting out over 17 volts.

[Derek Uzzell]

Chausson driver - 2014-10-31 2:08 PM

 

Well here I am reporting back after collecting our van from the dealers yesterday afternoon. A different technician from when we bought it told us that the battery was the wrong sort, probably a starter battery! As it had been replaced under the van's guarantee there was no paperwork to prove they had put it in. We managed to negotiate a 25% reduction on a new battery that doesn't need topping up. So we shall see. As an aside, I have to say that the dealership isn't one we will be returning to as service since we bought our van has been appalling. I am so grateful for all the helpful advice. At least we know the right questions to ask etc.

 

Suzanne

 

It’s likely that the majority of replacement leisure-batteries fitted to motorhomes are ‘dual purpose’, with the potential to start a vehicle’s motor as well as being able to provide 12volt power when the motorhome is, say, being used on aires where no mains power is available. An example is shown here:

 

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/

 

Although such batteries may not (in principle at least) have the out-and-out ‘leisure’ performance of a specialised product like Banner’s “Energy Bull” range

 

http://www.bannerbatterien.com/banner/produkte/batterien/energy_bull/index2_en.php

 

they should be plenty adequate for most motorcaravanners’ requirements.

 

If the battery that the French technician told you was the “wrong sort” and was, in fact, a ‘pure' starter-battery (not even a dual-purpose battery) I guess that might explain why it died after only a year. It may have developed a fault and that resulted in the loss of electrolyte. If that were the case, then replacing the battery with a more suitable one should provide a long-term solution.

 

However, as you’ll be aware, forum members (with 747 being the latest) have been concerned that your Chausson’s battery-charger may have been overcharging the leisure-battery and the electrolyte loss was due to this.

 

You haven’t said whether the French dealership carried out tests on your Chausson’s electrical system, but even if they did it would be worth you keeping an eye yourselves on what the battery-charger (and the solar panel) is doing, at least until you are sure nothing untoward is happening. As I said earlier, if the system is working properly, overcharging should not occur, but, (as 747 highlights) if there’s a a fault that results in overcharging, a battery can rapidly become irreparably damaged.

 

The following light-reading may be helpful for background

 

http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/power/a-guide-to-leisure-batteries/

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/6552072/technical.pdf

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/13871919/ccmnovtechnical.pdf?type=archive

 

 

To carry out your own tests you’d need to obtain a multimetre (example follows, but cheaper in the UK!)

 

http://www.mr-bricolage.fr/electricite-et-domotique/appareillage-mobile-et-de-mesure/multimetre/testeur-digital-grande-precision.html

 

and check the voltage being delivered to your Chausson’s batteries when they are being charged. With the type of charging system your motorhome has, the maximum charging voltage should not much exceed 14volts and this should reduce as the battery becomes fully charged.

 

It’s not difficult to make basic checks (provided that the batteries are accessible) and, if nothing odd shows up, you can then be confident that you will be able to have lengthy showers without the water-pump suddenly deciding to stop when you are covered in soap.