rob_in Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Greetings all, from sunny Sydney :) My wife & I are thinking of returning to Europe next spring and looking for an adventure. Back in 2012 we bought a small van (Peugeot Partner) in the UK and drove around Europe staying a gites, B&Bs, hotels and a bit of camping. For our next trick we are thinking trying a motorhome would be good. So we want a compact vehicle to travel/live in full time. For at least a year. In for a penny, in for a pound I say! We carry bikes and like to visit the mountains for hiking, etc. so a manoeuvrable vehicle is a must. It's a bit hard being in Sydney because there are no dealers here selling the sort of vehicle we want so are doing research online. We started out thinking something like a 6m long 'full width' (2.35m) home with a drop down bed over the lounge would be good. But then realised that this is no good if one of us wants to sleep in while the other gets up and wants to cook breakfast or use the table to 'work' or read in the lounge. We then discovered the 'trend' in compact (2.1m wide) vans with rear tail gate. Very manoeuvrable, storage under a rear drop down bed. Great! But then decided that while storage under a bed that moved was good, how often would you actually use that space for something else? If that was the case you might as well get a fixed rear bed with garage. So that's where we end up. Looking for a 'slim' van with rear fixed bed and garage big enough for 2 (road) bikes (cycles). The shortlist has become Burstner Travel Van t 590 G/Hymer Exsis-t 414 (Hymer comes fully winterised as standard and has 'L' lounge sometimes). Or in the integrated space, Hymer Exsis-i 414/Exsis-i 504 and maybe a Carthago Compactline 138. There is quite a range in pricing there. We will have to see something in the flesh before deciding if the extra cost of something like a Carthago is worth it. I'd be very thankful for comments on this 'mad' plan ;) Any models we might have missed? I'm almost exactly 6' BTW, but not overly 'round'. My wife is very petite. I think standing or showering in any of these models will be fine which would be my only concern regarding space. BTW, because we are planning to spend much time in Europe are also planning on buying a LHD model from probably a German dealer. I will post more on that process if it pans out, but so far looking promising. Cheers! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Have you heard of the German car/motorhome market website, www.mobile.de? Thousands of used motorhomes to chose from, usually presented with lots of photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hi Rob, although you are looking for compact van around 6 m seems a bit small for full timing. The shorter Hymer Exsis have swing wall washrooms I really don't think they would stand up to full timing. The i654 is the smallest with a fixed washroom. For full timing I would go for the i-Exsis over the t-Exsis, the A class cab gives a spacious environment the whole lounge area feels so much bigger which is quite important in the narrower bodied Exsis also the cab seats are further apart. The newer A class vans are also a lot quieter to drive comparable to cars, our Exsis is quieter than our car at 70mph. To get a van with decent size garage to get 2 bikes plus other kit I think you need to be looking at vans with a minimum length of 6.7 m. On paper the Carthago's are a bit dearer than the Hymer's but in the real would they are a lot dearer on a Hymer expect 12-15% discount on a Carthago 5-6%. Our Exsis is 7.2m I have found compared to our last van of 6.79m (2.35 wide) the narrower width has made maneuvering very easy the width appears more important than length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 www.motorhome365.com ;-) ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 StuartO - 2014-11-11 8:16 AM Have you heard of the German car/motorhome market website, www.mobile.de? Yes indeed. As I said, where this is actually sourced will be a whole other story :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-11-11 8:46 AM The shorter Hymer Exsis have swing wall washrooms I really don't think they would stand up to full timing. Do you think that would also apply to the 414? It's 'wetroom' has no wall but does have that pull down sink. To get a van with decent size garage to get 2 bikes plus other kit I think you need to be looking at vans with a minimum length of 6.7 m. What is this 'kit' you speak of? ;) Like I said, we easily got everything we needed (and more!) for a year in a Peugeot Partner van. Are you telling me a 6m van like the Hymer 414 would have less storage spage? Even with a bike rack or storage box on the back? BTW - I see something like a rack or box hanging off the back as OK as it doesn't affect the vehicle's departure angle as it's up the rear wall. Our Exsis is 7.2m I have found compared to our last van of 6.79m (2.35 wide) the narrower width has made maneuvering very easy the width appears more important than length. This is why I was looking at something 'slimmer' so glad for the confirmation. As I mention, we like mountains. If you can't drive it up tight hairpin bends it's a non-starter. So would a 7.2m vehicle really be OK in that environment? Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hi rob_in Have a look at the Adria Compact or Coral range. Compact start @ 6m to 6.6m with large Garage http://www.adria-mobil.com/at-at/2015/motorhomes/specialist/compact/ They also do a budget range (Sun Living Lido, see MMM Roadtest April 2014- like Hymer having their Carado range) which appear to have the same body shells but lower spec equipment. Others that come to mind are Burstner, Knaus & Dethleffs (German) or Rapido (French) again Dethleffs also have a budget range under the Sunlight banner. All should be available on mainland Europe with LHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Rear overhang influences departure angle enormously. Unlike Australia where acording to my extensivly travelled son crossing gullies off the tarmac is the real worry the main concern in Europe will be ferry ramps Its overall length compared with wheelbase and effective tail ground clearance that is critical. Some of the latest extended wheelbase PVC conversions easily ground in the middle. More and more European towns restrict access to 3.5 tons GVW and speed is also widely restricted above this weight. Our first spec for a van was the smallest we thought we could live in for a month without risking divorce. Our Clubman was fine for eight years and then grandaughter wanted to come. Set your own spec.You sound pretty adaptable. If you have S Devon roots I have done the local guide but for ozzie cousins before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 rob_in - 2014-11-10 10:32 PM Do you think that would also apply to the 414? It's 'wetroom' has no wall but does have that pull down sink. Not seen one in the flesh, but I would think it would be more durable than the swing wall although cabinet/storage space would rather limited. What is this 'kit' you speak of? ;) To start with with a small garage under a singe bed or narrow double you will struggle to get 2 bikes in easily, as for the kit, jack, spare wheel (I would never use a Motorhome without one), hoses, cycle helmets, tools, ramps and all the other bits you don't want cluttering up the inside of the van. Like I said, we easily got everything we needed (and more!) for a year in a Peugeot Partner van. Are you telling me a 6m van like the Hymer 414 would have less storage spage? Even with a bike rack or storage box on the back? BTW - I see something like a rack or box hanging off the back as OK as it doesn't affect the vehicle's departure angle as it's up the rear wall. A van is a great big empty box, when traveling with a Motorhome you don't want to be heaving stuff out the garage to find things, it's supposed to be a pleasant experience(lol) You said you wanted a garage for the bikes so I assumed you did not want a bike rack. This is why I was looking at something 'slimmer' so glad for the confirmation. As I mention, we like mountains. If you can't drive it up tight hairpin bends it's a non-starter. So would a 7.2m vehicle really be OK in that environment? Only had ours a few months not been up any mountain roads yet but did visit a couple of hilltop villages with tight hairpin bends on narrow access roads, no problems easier than the last van (Hymer Tramp T654SL). Edit: Are you looking at buying the van for the long term or is it just for touring for a couple of years? If just for a couple of years a Hymer would be a better bet as easy to sell with good residual values, Carthago's hold their value quite well but being more expensive you will loose more cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 flicka - 2014-11-11 11:14 AM Have a look at the Adria Compact or Coral range... Burstner, Knaus & Dethleffs (German) or Rapido (French) again Dethleffs... Yeah - the Adria Compact will be worth a look. Coral is wider though. The Knaus Van ranges look very good too. Burstner is on the list already. We'd seen Dethleffs and although the EVAN looks interesting just think it's too much of an in-between vehicle for what we'd need. Maybe should go back and check the shorter Globebus models. EDIT: Ah yes, the Globebus I 1 has tiny garage doors. The I 11 is longer. It has rollershutter link wardrobe door though (less robust?) and don't think they are winterised by default (you always loose more money on options). I don't think Rapido have anything 'slim' though. Thanks for the suggestions. Yet more searching... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 George Collings - 2014-11-11 9:01 AM Some of the latest extended wheelbase PVC conversions easily ground in the middle. I'm puzzling over this one, what vans are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-11-11 8:10 PM To start with with a small garage under a singe bed or narrow double you will struggle to get 2 bikes in easily, as for the kit, jack, spare wheel (I would never use a Motorhome without one), hoses, cycle helmets, tools, ramps and all the other bits you don't want cluttering up the inside of the van. ... A van is a great big empty box, when traveling with a Motorhome you don't want to be heaving stuff out the garage to find things, it's supposed to be a pleasant experience(lol) You said you wanted a garage for the bikes so I assumed you did not want a bike rack. I did a little test the other day and the bikes stand in a space approx 155x55x99(h). I think this will leave a nice space to pile up storage boxes and tie down under any double (we are only considering models with double at the back). I hear what you're saying about 'pleasant experience' but it's all about compromise. It's really not a big deal to spend an extra 10 minutes getting kit ready if that means being able to drive up hairpins easily. I mean... 10 minutes before and after each ride... it's not like we won't have the time ;) Are you looking at buying the van for the long term or is it just for touring for a couple of years? If just for a couple of years a Hymer would be a better bet as easy to sell with good residual values, Carthago's hold their value quite well but being more expensive you will loose more cash. 1 year? 2? Who knows! ;) I'm in agreement about a more common model though. Hymer seem to be almost a commodity on mobile.de so should be easy to shift when we're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 A model with a double at the rear, you won't have any storage problems. When we were looking we were quite interested in the i578 being a bit shorter at 6.75m the two things that sided against it were as already mentioned the swing wall washroom ( we both use the van's shower every day when away). The other item that steered us away from a shorter van was the lounge, with the stepped floor the passenger seat was near to the edge of the step and no side seat for feet up lounging. We felt the compromises in a shorter van were too much for us. In our i678 we had the fold up seat (box seat is a no charge option) as gave much easier access around the cab seats and you still have feet up lounging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Long whelbase PVCs with an additional slide out step below the sliding door or mid mounted low slung tanks have been known to ground on speed humps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I would caution against storing two bikes in a garage. Bikes in a garage are a very wasteful use of space as most of the space taken up is air. You're going to need your garage for the chairs, table, barbeque, food and drink storage, walking boots and all the other things that will make full-timing more enjoyable. Go for a bike rack, either rear mounted or one that goes on a towbar. If you go for a rear-mounted rack push the boat out a bit and get one that will lower, so that loading the bikes and, more importantly, putting a cover on them, will be much easier. If you're going to be using it through the winter it's essential that the bikes are covered. In a modestly-sized motorhome you'll have limited storage for full-timing, so the available garage space will be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 rob_in - 2014-11-10 9:10 P We started out thinking something like a 6m long 'full width' (2.35m) home with a drop down bed over the lounge would be good. But then realised that this is no good if one of us wants to sleep in while the other gets up and wants to cook breakfast or use the table to 'work' or read in the lounge. Rob In our Rapido 987M 6.5 long we could do exactly that, the cooking and eating were separated enough to allow both very easily Not to sure that model would suit though, it has two beds one fixed and one over the driver. Cannot comment on the Compact. We had two beds for individual comfort Will85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 another vote for adria compact..or have a look at the 636 maxi chassis panel vans, Possl/Globecar a good balance of quality and value. LA Strada better and plenty of other decent vans around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-11-11 11:23 AM I would caution against storing two bikes in a garage. Bikes in a garage are a very wasteful use of space as most of the space taken up is air. You're going to need your garage for the chairs, table, barbeque, food and drink storage, walking boots and all the other things that will make full-timing more enjoyable. ...................... Not necessarily Frank! We carry two full sized bikes in the rear of our Exsis-i 578. They are strapped against the rear wall. Both are equipped with MKS XP Ezy pedals, which are removeable in a trice. Both have QR wheels, and stack against the rear wall of the van, one with one wheel popped out, the other with both removed. Both upside down, and with bars and forks rotated 90 degrees so they are parallel with the frame. Wheels carried separately inside. This way, no-one knows they are there, so the van can be parked more or less at will, and they don't get plastered with crud in bad weather. The rest of the garage easily takes tables, chairs and the other clutter, but it is fitted out for that. That is my next thought. To get the best out of the space, some fit-out seems to me desirable. You'd probably need to do that before you sally forth. Is this feasible for you? If you buy in Germany, will you just fly in and try to make a deal, or would you then take the van to UK to get it registered? I assume you solved the insurance problem last time around, so know what to expect! However, unless you can arrange insurance through the German dealer, which I think may prove difficult without a German address, you may find you need to get it registered in UK before you can get insurance (in Germany the driver, not the vehicle "owns" the registration plates, so the plates go with the driver and all vehicles, new or used, are sold without plates). I have heard of one Australian couple who persuaded a German dealer to service, register and insure the vehicle, so that all they needed to do was advise when they wanted to fly in, and he did the rest. I think there was even some kind of buy-back arrangement in the scheme. Bit like a lease. I assume this is a fairly costly option but, if you can find a dealer willing to do it (I imagine they won't all be able to do this), you may find you gain easier access to non-EU countries on German insurance than with UK issued insurance. If all this seems too complicated from the other side of the world, the alternative may be to get the van imported into UK to order (at least a couple of firms will do this for you) when you can pay them in Sterling rather than Euros, and the vehicle will be delivered to you fully registered and taxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Agree with Brian about the bikes we have a couple of Specialized RockHoppers, no fancy peddles that come off and leave the wheels on. Took quite a few attempts to get them in using least space, got it sussed now. Bikes against the back wall, spare loo waste container on floor behind bikes below peddles, on top of container up are the bread crate bases for soft ground, between front wheel & jack/tool box (mounted on rear wall) are the ramps , table and chairs vertical on the other side in the centre & 2 20Lt water containers in front of them. On the other side of the garage bike rear wheels rest on spare wheel other side keep fairly clear so gas locker door can be opened without moving too much stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 ...on the same 'van as Frank's late-departed one, our two E-bikes are strapped to the rear wall (which has fixing rails top and bottom) with strong bungees. I do turn the handlebars 90 degrees before loading, and they are kept apart (removing risk of paintwork damage) by attaching each end of an old Fiamma bike block to the respective seat stays. Like Brian, I have fitted removable pedals (though a different design) which means the first bike can go flush to the rear wall (padded with pipe insulation at the few points it makes contact). I use the ramps to chock that bike from sideways movement whilst travelling. This leaves ample space for chairs, table, silver screens, BBQ and charcoal, fresh and waste water carriers, and three large stacked "really useful" boxes stuffed with walking boots, bike stuff, and all the little "spares" I carry for every eventuality. Since the garage has a bit of a "lip", it takes a little effort to remove the bikes (and I have to remove the boxes to do so - but this is easy). The upside is that they are clean and secure. I could get considerably more in the garage, but I'm wary of the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Robinhood - 2014-11-11 3:12 PM ...on the same 'van as Frank's late-departed one, our two E-bikes are strapped to the rear wall (which has fixing rails top and bottom) with strong bungees. I do turn the handlebars 90 degrees before loading, and they are kept apart (removing risk of paintwork damage) by attaching each end of an old Fiamma bike block to the respective seat stays. Like Brian, I have fitted removable pedals (though a different design) which means the first bike can go flush to the rear wall (padded with pipe insulation at the few points it makes contact). I use the ramps to chock that bike from sideways movement whilst travelling. This leaves ample space for chairs, table, silver screens, BBQ and charcoal, fresh and waste water carriers, and three large stacked "really useful" boxes stuffed with walking boots, bike stuff, and all the little "spares" I carry for every eventuality. Since the garage has a bit of a "lip", it takes a little effort to remove the bikes (and I have to remove the boxes to do so - but this is easy). The upside is that they are clean and secure. I could get considerably more in the garage, but I'm wary of the weight. I found it a bit of a pain. We strap two recliners to the back wall and I found that putting bikes in the garage was a struggle, which usually involved moving others stuff. Perhaps we carry more in our garage than others? We have a barbeque and plastic boxes with food and drink, plus a table and windbreak etc. I can't be bothered removing wheels etc. and so far have found it preferable to put the bikes on my fabulous, low down, Thule 916 towbar-mounted bike rack. Anyway I pick up my Hymer Behemoth Juggernaut at the weekend and that has a bigger garage, so I'm always open to suggestions. Oh, and I've just remembered the other big problem. Latterly, we carried a spare wheel, which was just laid flat on the garage floor, which made carrying bikes even more difficult. I'm going to have to research spare wheel carrying for the new 'van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Had Enough - 2014-11-11 3:55 PM Anyway I pick up my Hymer Behemoth Juggernaut at the weekend and that has a bigger garage, so I'm always open to suggestions. ....mind the low bridge on Debdale Lane as you drive away. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-11-12 1:15 AM That is my next thought. To get the best out of the space, some fit-out seems to me desirable. You'd probably need to do that before you sally forth. Is this feasible for you? Yes indeed - some arrangement of the garage would be a must. The bikes would be stored with front wheel off and front fork locked into QR axle fitted to the floor. As I said, we could hang the bikes on a rack at the back if necessary. They would absolutely have to be covered. I ride a lot of proper mountains so the bike is not the kind of machine you want hanging outside for the world to see. I'm sure you know what I'm saying. If you buy in Germany, will you just fly in and try to make a deal... That would be the plan. I have already been in contact with a few dealers who could help. We plan to narrow it down, call ahead, show up and look at a few options and make a choice. Give them some money and drive off. How hard could it be? ;) Rhetorical question - please don't go into it here, like I said, will write about that separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Have look at Frankia 640sd. Drop down bed extends out so you can sleep any way round you want, and still use table and kitchen. We've got one and it's brilliant. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_in Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 peter - 2014-11-12 8:54 AM Have look at Frankia 640sd. That's nice, but I don't think it's for us. It's 'fat' and has no garage :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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