Heating Motorhome up while parked

[Peewee_Pete]

Hi Guys

 

I know there has been a lot of questions already about winterising, which I have read, i wanted to ask something more specific.

 

I wil be using the van quite regular over the winter, when not in use its parked on the drive with a hook up in it.

 

I don't want to winterise it and drain it all off so my plan was when its really cold to leave an oil filled radiator on inside. I am not too fussed about the small amount of extra electricity it will use.

 

However I am now wondering if it will just be easier to put the electric heating on in the van, just put it on the 500 watt setting and leave the thermostat on quite low,

 

Any advice on that? should i go with the radiator or van heating on very low?

 

 

[Tracker]

It depends on how winter resistant your water system is. and as you have not told us your van make and model nobody can answer with any certainty.

 

Are the outside tanks and water pipes - if so no amount of heating inside the van will stop them freezing, although leaving the water heating on should protect the very expensive to repair or replace boiler.

 

You might be able to fit low wattage tank heating elements to protect the tanks but I don't know whether that will protect the pipework?

[Brock]

According to my manual, you should not leave drinking water more than four days in the fresh water tank and the toilet should be emptied when the van is not being used. Therefore, twiddling a few knobs to drain water is what I do even though we use the van through the winter and park it up with a hook up. Ours lives through the winter with no additional heat.

 

It will depend on what sort of protection your water system has. My van has a double floor with the heating pipes and tanks enclosed and thus using the van heater would be beneficial if I wanted to leave in water. If you have a water heater in your tanks or excellent insulation of the tank, I'd be tempted to use an oil filled heater unless seriously low temperatures were likely - then I definitely would drain.

 

Have a look in your manual, or on your manufacturers website [unlikely to say anything], or dealer website or Owners Club forum to see if there is any guidance.

 

Please to read you'll be using the van through the winter. It's a great time to get out and about even if the nights are dark and mysterious. Just avoid staying on farms that breed turkeys - I made that mistake pre-Christmas once and the noise from the birds was deafening all night long!

[Peewee_Pete]

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I am sorry I didn't name the make and model

 

Its an Elldis Autoquest 180 2006, its the older shape with the more square body and the last year of the old style cab. I am very happy with it so far, even though I believe its considered a budget Van.

 

From having a rummage inside the fresh water tank is inside under one of the rear seats, I haven't found the waste tank so assume thats underneath it, not sure the route of the pipework,

 

to be clear on my thoughts,

 

If i was to leave a site on a Monday for instance I would drain off the waste and fresh water tanks with the taps underneath, but not drain the hot water, go home park it on drive and plug it in and leave as it is, come to use it the friday after off again and fill tanks up, so was thinking during the week while its on the drive some kind of heat inside it

 

I was trying to avoid doing a full drain down and emptying the hot water tank unless I had too. One of the reasons being it has a small freshwater tank so I wouldn't lose water refilling the hot water tap.

 

I will be using it for working away in also, so I see us using it very often and i want it ready to go at a moments notice! I was thinking leaving some heat on in it on the drive would allow me to leave the bedding in it, stop it freezing and just generally keep it dry hence the thinking of a small oil filled radiator, however one of the biggest problems with this van is it has a lack of storage for a 6 berth van, so this would leave me with having to find somewhere to store the heater when not in use or have to move it in and out of the house, so I was thinking of just using the onboard heater on low, not sure if there is any negatives using this method, and if the cost of electric would be much more on a low setting

 

thanks again for your help

[AndyB]

Hi,

 

I've got an Elddis as well.

 

Best to drain off the hot water tank and leave all taps open, just in case.

 

If it gets really cold you'll need the heating on full blast.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[colin]

Not sure what heater you have, a combi? if so refilling, at least on my van, is no problem as long as you remember to shut the dump valve :$

But if I did want to heat on a constant basis I'd use a standard household heater, if you wear out the fan on a motorhome heater it's a lot more expensive to replace.

[Patricia]

I always drain my van completely (now did I remember to do it in September I wonder?) and leave the van heating on 500 at about 10 degrees. If weather gets very bad I turn this up a bit more to keep it aired a bit.

[Keithl]

And 500 Watt will do nothing to warm the inside of your MH if the ambient outside drops below freezing. You'll need at least 2 kW to keep the temperature in your MH above freezing. I know from experience as I bought a 500 Watt oil filled rad and had to change to a 2 kW to keep the temp up.

 

Also don't forget to leave the bathroom door and possibly some locker doors open to allow the warmth to circulate.

 

I also agree with the comment on not using your MH heater long term, they can be very expensive to repair, an oil filled rad is cheap by comparison!

 

Keith.

[Peewee_Pete]

Now I have started to read the replies and thinking about it properly, its probably no hardship just to drain it off and refill, each trip, in my head at first it seemed like a bit of a carry on, but now i have chance to think about it sounds simple, think i need to get out and start using it as I still have the caravan methodology in my head from years ago.

 

Its in having a sat system fitted at the moment, and we have our first weekend away booked in it for 5th December, looking forward to it. getting a back storage box fitted also, I read about the lack of outside storage on the reviews before i bought it, but it really is pretty bad for such a big van

 

 

[Retread24800]

My antique has all internal pipework, for the winter I put up the silver screens and plug in a small heater set to 1.5Kw and the thermostat to 15°C, I leave the Wardrobe and Washroom doors and the hatch to the water heater open.

Tiny heaters produce a tiny amount of heat, use a bigger heater and control the temperature with the Thermostat. 

[Brian Kirby]

Peewee_Pete - 2014-11-22 10:30 PM

 

Now I have started to read the replies and thinking about it properly, its probably no hardship just to drain it off and refill, each trip, in my head at first it seemed like a bit of a carry on, but now i have chance to think about it sounds simple, think i need to get out and start using it as I still have the caravan methodology in my head from years ago.................

When you initially fill the fresh water tank and water heater you fill with sterile chlorinated mains water. After a while (usually a only few days) the chlorine, which is naturally a gas, is lost from the water so, unless you add something else to maintain the tanks and pipes sterile, the water will tend to become contaminated. Each time you draw off water you inevitably draw in air, and that air will contain the contaminants. The usual result is the growth of algae in the tanks and pipes, normally noticeable as a slippery, slimy, coating on the internal surfaces. Other things can also enter, sometimes leading to stomach upsets.

 

Few of us completely empty a fresh water tank before we refill, and tend to top up as we go. So, we add chlorinated water to the stored, de-chlorinated, water already there. This is unlikely to introduce sufficient chlorine to sterilise the water already present, so will not suppress any contamination it contains. And so on. Over time the levels, and types, of contaminant can build up - leading to long spells in close company of a toilet. Not much fun in a 'van!

 

I believe your 'van may have a 70 litre fresh water tank and a 50 litre waste tank. Whether it is worth buying a sterilising agent to keep the stored water sterile, will depend largely on the rate at which you consume the water, and what you use it for.

 

If you use the van regularly, don't drink the water or use it for teeth cleaning, but otherwise use the van's shower etc, and do cooking and washing-up in the 'van, you will need to refill fairly often, so will keep replenishing with fresh chlorinated water quite frequently. Probably not worth buying a sterilising agent.

 

OTOH, if your 'van use is less frequent, you mainly use camp site facilities, and particularly if you drink the water, it would be well worth adding a sterilising agent and leaving the water in the tank in preference to draining/refilling every time you go off.

 

You need to choose what you use with care, as I suspect your Truma Ultrastore water heater has a stainless steel jacket, and products such as Milton contain chlorine that, especielly whan heated, will "eat" the stainless steel. So, look for products that do not contain chlorine.

 

We use a product called Elsil, which is made by Elsan, and should be available from caravan/motorhome accessories shops. It is based around sliver iodide and is claimed to keep the water fresh and drinkable (though we only drink it boiled) for up to three months. Using this at the recommended rate we have never experienced taint, algae, slime, or smell in the water or the fresh water tank over the past 5 - 6 years. We tend to travel for 8 -10 weeks at a time spring and autumn, filling and dosing the tank before we leave - after initially sterilising the whole system with another Elsan product, "Fresh Water tank Clean" - and then dosing with Elsil whenever we top-up. We drain the water system completely on our return. We use site facilities, and top-up the tank when half-empty, which is usually every 7/8 days. Hope this helps.

[Peewee_Pete]

Brian Kirby - 2014-11-23 11:51 AM

 

Peewee_Pete - 2014-11-22 10:30 PM

 

Now I have started to read the replies and thinking about it properly, its probably no hardship just to drain it off and refill, each trip, in my head at first it seemed like a bit of a carry on, but now i have chance to think about it sounds simple, think i need to get out and start using it as I still have the caravan methodology in my head from years ago.................

When you initially fill the fresh water tank and water heater you fill with sterile chlorinated mains water. After a while (usually a only few days) the chlorine, which is naturally a gas, is lost from the water so, unless you add something else to maintain the tanks and pipes sterile, the water will tend to become contaminated. Each time you draw off water you inevitably draw in air, and that air will contain the contaminants. The usual result is the growth of algae in the tanks and pipes, normally noticeable as a slippery, slimy, coating on the internal surfaces. Other things can also enter, sometimes leading to stomach upsets.

 

Few of us completely empty a fresh water tank before we refill, and tend to top up as we go. So, we add chlorinated water to the stored, de-chlorinated, water already there. This is unlikely to introduce sufficient chlorine to sterilise the water already present, so will not suppress any contamination it contains. And so on. Over time the levels, and types, of contaminant can build up - leading to long spells in close company of a toilet. Not much fun in a 'van!

 

I believe your 'van may have a 70 litre fresh water tank and a 50 litre waste tank. Whether it is worth buying a sterilising agent to keep the stored water sterile, will depend largely on the rate at which you consume the water, and what you use it for.

 

If you use the van regularly, don't drink the water or use it for teeth cleaning, but otherwise use the van's shower etc, and do cooking and washing-up in the 'van, you will need to refill fairly often, so will keep replenishing with fresh chlorinated water quite frequently. Probably not worth buying a sterilising agent.

 

OTOH, if your 'van use is less frequent, you mainly use camp site facilities, and particularly if you drink the water, it would be well worth adding a sterilising agent and leaving the water in the tank in preference to draining/refilling every time you go off.

 

You need to choose what you use with care, as I suspect your Truma Ultrastore water heater has a stainless steel jacket, and products such as Milton contain chlorine that, especielly whan heated, will "eat" the stainless steel. So, look for products that do not contain chlorine.

 

We use a product called Elsil, which is made by Elsan, and should be available from caravan/motorhome accessories shops. It is based around sliver iodide and is claimed to keep the water fresh and drinkable (though we only drink it boiled) for up to three months. Using this at the recommended rate we have never experienced taint, algae, slime, or smell in the water or the fresh water tank over the past 5 - 6 years. We tend to travel for 8 -10 weeks at a time spring and autumn, filling and dosing the tank before we leave - after initially sterilising the whole system with another Elsan product, "Fresh Water tank Clean" - and then dosing with Elsil whenever we top-up. We drain the water system completely on our return. We use site facilities, and top-up the tank when half-empty, which is usually every 7/8 days. Hope this helps.

 

That was really useful! thank you for taking the time to reply,

[John J Thompson]

We at The Motorhome Tourism Organisation have just received statistics from The Department for Transport (DfT) statistics office.

 

There are as of end of June 250,000 motorhomes registered in the UK 87% of these are available for use at any one time (average of last 5 years data) with only 13% under SORN at any one time. This drops to 10% in quarter 3 (July, August and September). It would seem that unlike caravans most motorhomes are used all year around.

 

 

[Tracker]

John J Thompson - 2014-11-24 9:59 AM

It would seem that unlike caravans most motorhomes are used all year around.

 

Or maybe most of us prefer to keep them taxed and insured all year just in case the fancy turns to a winter trip away or maybe a day out or even just a run out once a month to keep it all working?

[AliB]

John J Thompson - 2014-11-24 9:59 AM

 

We at The Motorhome Tourism Organisation have just received statistics from The Department for Transport (DfT) statistics office.

 

There are as of end of June 250,000 motorhomes registered in the UK 87% of these are available for use at any one time (average of last 5 years data) with only 13% under SORN at any one time. This drops to 10% in quarter 3 (July, August and September). It would seem that unlike caravans most motorhomes are used all year around.

 

 

The number of new registrations has been increasing at about 16%, 2014 compared to 2013.

http://www.e-c-f.com/fileadmin/templates/4825/images/statistics/europazul-4.pdf

 

[Colin Leake]

If you have a wet heating system by all means use that. If you have a blown air Truma system use a separate electric heater preferably an oil filled rad. The blown air system will be drawing freezing cold air in from outside and most of the energy will go to heat that up. It's been freezing here today and I ran the heating system just to check it worked on our new PVC on the two kW setting it struggled to provide better than marginally warm air. With an oil filled rad all the energy will go towards heating the interior.

 

I also agree with some of the above regarding wear and tear on a blown air system.

[Brian Kirby]

Respectfully, Colin, I don't think that is correct. AFAIK, after three Turma Combi type heaters, the system is total recirculation, and not total loss. All the warmed air that is pumped from the outlets is drawn into the system from within the van. The only air drawn into the heater from outside is for combustion when working on gas and that, for obvious reasons, is all exhausted via the balanced flue outlet.

 

I think all you are seeing is the effect of a cold van on the ability of the heater to deliver warm air to the outlets, to do which it first has to heat itself, and then all the delivery ducts, and only then can it begin to start warming the air inside the van itself. It's going to take time with only 1kW to do the work, and may never succeed. I think the electric heater element is intended to be adequate to maintain warmth once the van is up to temperature, but not to heat it from cold. For that the higher output of gas operation is required - or even both in tandem.

[fincrine]

Yes, I think so. the electric heater element is intended to be adequate to maintain warmth once the van is up to temperature, but not to heat it from cold.

[Colin Leake]

Brian Kirby - 2014-11-25 12:26 AM

 

Respectfully, Colin, I don't think that is correct. AFAIK, after three Turma Combi type heaters, the system is total recirculation, and not total loss. All the warmed air that is pumped from the outlets is drawn into the system from within the van. The only air drawn into the heater from outside is for combustion when working on gas and that, for obvious reasons, is all exhausted via the balanced flue outlet.

 

I think all you are seeing is the effect of a cold van on the ability of the heater to deliver warm air to the outlets, to do which it first has to heat itself, and then all the delivery ducts, and only then can it begin to start warming the air inside the van itself. It's going to take time with only 1kW to do the work, and may never succeed. I think the electric heater element is intended to be adequate to maintain warmth once the van is up to temperature, but not to heat it from cold. For that the higher output of gas operation is required - or even both in tandem.

 

I've just been out and had a look for myself and indeed you are correct. But even on two kW it still seems to struggle. When we want to heat ours up quickly to take it out in the winter I stick a 2 kW fan heater in a safe place on a work surface. That seems to do the trick.

 

We don't try to keep ours warm on the drive in the Winter but we do have a dehumidifier which runs around midday for four hours when the van is powered up on a timer thus keeping both the vehicle and leisure batteries charged as well as running the dehumidifier.

 

Incidently one very cold morning on a site we fired up a Truma combi 6 on gas and electric combined. It sounded like Concord taking off buy it certainly heated the motorhome up real quick!

[pheasantplucker]

Has anyone tried sterilising with Camden tablets? They are used in home winemaking and a couple are dropped into a gallon jar of wine before bottling. If I remember correctly, they give off sulphur dioxide as the purifying agent and don't interfere with the taste of the wine.

 

I haven't sterilised the tank as we drink bottled water and only use tank water for washing and dishes. When we see a fresh water tap, the bottles (Tesco 5 litres usually) can be refilled (remove labels from refilled ones so we know which are which) and even used to add water to the tank when wilding, as it can be filled from the top as well as the external filler.

 

For short trips in winter when it isn't worth filling and re-draining the tank (as the van is in storage and difficult to fill there) we just use the bottles and kettle on the gas, which, unless showering, can be cheaper than turning the boiler on every day.

 

Our Truma boiler has a dump valve which allegedly empties the boiler if the temperature gets near freezing automatically.