trevor166uk Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi I have a late 2010 Ducato 2.3 van conversion. I've had it from new and its done 16000 miles. It was made by Fiat in about March or April 2010 as far as I can tell, but not registered until I bought it in November. Its been totally reliable until this morning when it would not start. Investigation revealed the battery was flat, holding 9.6 volts. I last used it a week ago when it travelled about 20 miles. Nothing was left switched on (I've checked). So is it likely that the battery has just failed and needs replacing, or is there possibly some underlying issue? How long do these batteries last as a rule? This one was fitted in the factory so will be approaching 5 years old. I always try to run the vehicle for about 20 miles once a week if we're not going away in it and put it on charge for a few hours every few weeks by plugging in the mains cable. On this m/h that charges both the leisure and vehicle batteries. So can anyone tell me, is it likely to be the battery or should I look deeper? Its got an aftermarket Sony stereo and an on board camera, but hasn't got an alarm. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Very likely to be a failed battery. The battery is at least four years old and the pattern of events suggest a cell failure, so replacement will be necessary. You should however be able to get it started using jump leads, to get yourslef to a battery supplier. Choose a replacement carefully and resist buying purely on price. The Bosch S5 series, which incorporate new technolgy, seem to be a good choie for motorhomes, both as starter batteries and as leisure batteries too - and they come with a five year replacement guarantee. Varta Silver are said to be identical, slightly cheaper and might be more easily available.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My 2010 Ducato also with 16000 miles on the clock had a battery failure while in Spain during the Autumn. It cost me 240 euros to replace. Halfords are selling the identical Yuasa battery (110 amps) for around £175 but it will probably be cheaper elsewhere if you shop around. Unlike in the old days battery failure just happens with no tell tale signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Whilst it sounds most likely to be battery, you do need to make sure the radio and camera are not taking it down, If it's a Sony like ours you need to make sure the display is fully switched off, including time, then remove the front. Some camera systems have been known to leave camera permanently on, so this also needs checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 What you say does suggest a duff battery but my inclination would be to remove it and bench charge it with a decent charger before rushing out to but a new one. BUT before doing so and if you have, or buy, a digital multimeter - a handy bit of kit for every motorhomer - try checking the current drain milliamps with everything switched off just in case you have a fault or something that remains on when it shouldn't. Check with multimeter the battery no load voltage when fully charged should be around 12.8 ish and this should hold without much of a drop when left standing for a week. If it does not hold voltage then as suggested a new battery is probably needed. Digital mutimeters are cheap enough on Amazon and most are plenty accurate enough for the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It is often the first snap of cold weather that finds out a weak battery. Output in any case falls in cold weather, so a battery that already has a deficiency is liable to give up the ghost when the frosts begin. I'd also suggest you check what charge the charger provides when on EHU. Many only supply a maintenance charge, that is not designed for, and is insufficient for, re-charging a depleted battery. They are fine if the battery is already properly charged, as they mainly counter the battery's rate of self-discharge, keeping it "topped up". Further, if you are only using EHU occasionally, I wonder if your battery has been suffering from progressive discharge, in that the 20 mile runs may be insufficient to bring it up to full charge, followed by a charge rate on EHU that is not intended to provide a full charge. You don't say what make/model the conversion is, or what make/model the on-board charger is, so the above may not be relevant to your circumstances. However, I'd suggest a bit of investigation before rushing out for a new battery. For example, have you checked that the charger is, actually, charging the starter battery as it should? I too suspect that the present battery is now beyond recovery, but it would be worth checking, or getting checked, the charging regimes. Otherwise, you risk fitting a new battery, only to find it suffers the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Only to add to the above, Can only say I recently had a Bosch battery with nearly four years of the guarantee left fail, one day it was fine, then a couple of "struggling to start " episodes, then knackered. :-( nothing wrong with the Alternator or charging voltages. Sadly for me Bosch nor the AA who supplied the battery would not honour the guarantee even though I had the receipt as I wasn't the original purchaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Just to add that if there is an underlying problem in any battery powered system fitting a strong new battery might well disguise that issue for a while but sooner or later that underlying issue will make it's presence felt and return to bite you and that is why it is so important to be sure that everything else in the system is perfect before replacing any battery. I too have had issues with battery suppliers finding ways to worm out of alleged guarantees and the distance sellers seem to be worse than the local suppliers at this. Halfords were very good twice with a four year old on a five year warranty leisure battery many years ago but I understand now from friends that they are a lot less forthcoming although I have no personal experience to support that view - plus their batteries tend to be more expensive than the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi again Thanks for all the advice. I have a multimeter, that’s how I knew the battery was holding 9.6 volts. I will investigate as you suggest tracker, what you say seems sensible to me. It is a Globecar with an Electroblock charger. I've had it on all morning and the battery is now showing 12.2 volts, so clearly it is charging it okay. I think I'll leave it for the afternoon and then disconnect the battery fully and leave it a week to see how much it loses. I am confident I have the Sony stereo fully turned off, but even then it must have a little drain, enough to maintain the clock and radio station memories. I don't think the camera is the problem as it is through an ignition controlled power source. I don't think its what Brian calls a progressive discharge, as my pattern of usage has been the same for 4 years and I have also had some long runs in the last few weeks. what I do is take it for a weekend run if I haven't used it for a week or so, but we go away usually once or twice a month. In addition I put it on EHU about every other weekend during the winter when we don't go away. I just want to make sure it is the battery before I spend money! I am a Yorkshireman after all. When I do spend though I won't buy the cheapest, I'll buy a decent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I can recommend Bosch Silver............... :-S :-S :-S (!) Yes of course it makes sense to get a tester to check the alternators output, or get a garage to check it out for you first, but in my experience getting five years of use out of an engine battery is pretty good going ;-) I'd say the OP is on borrowed time all things being equal, nothing worse than the sound of Grrrrr, click click in the middle nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 If you are charging your battery having removed it from your van there is little point in immediately checking the no load voltage, leave the battery to stand for several hours before measuring the voltage. Even then the no load voltage can be misleading if there is an internal fault. The test should be carried out with a "proper" battery tester which measures the voltage under load. Also, when you are charging the battery see if you can feel any hot spots on the side of the casing. These may indicate a problem. You are lucky to have got 4 years use from your battery. The AGM habitation battery in my new m.h. failed after three weeks! I think that it was u/s when I took delivery but had been charged up with an "industrial strength" charger. It then discharged itself over three weeks despite the m.h. being on EHU for most of that time. Both the alternator and the internal charger are working fine. A potent argument for Solar Panels B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 mikejkay - 2014-12-14 2:00 PM A potent argument for Solar Panels With the proviso that the constant daytime trickle charge can flatter the user into thinking that his batteries are all good because they always show a high voltage until he discovers in real world use that maybe their charge holding capability is not so great after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-14 12:37 PM..............It is a Globecar with an Electroblock charger. I've had it on all morning and the battery is now showing 12.2 volts, so clearly it is charging it okay. I think I'll leave it for the afternoon and then disconnect the battery fully and leave it a week to see how much it loses................ Are you possibly measuring the battery voltage with the charger connected and charging? If so, don't forget you are only measuring the chargeer output: not the battery voltage. It needs to be measured at least an hour after the charger has been disconnected. Unless Globecar have modified the switching (unlikely, I think) the Schaudt Electroblock only supplies a maintenence charge to the starter battery. It will not fully charge it, and you may damage the charger by putting the maintenance output into what is, in effect, a completely flat battery. Not sure on the damage scenario, but I think best to disconnect the EHU until some who knows different can advise. You won't want the cost of repair or replacement of the Schaudt unit to add to be cost of a new battery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 When my Bosch silver failed it was taken off and charged in the house, despite it showing around 12.5 after charging it was still knackered when it was put back on the van :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-14 12:37 PM It is a Globecar with an Electroblock charger. I've had it on all morning and the battery is now showing 12.2 volts, so clearly it is charging it okay. I think I'll leave it for the afternoon and then disconnect the battery fully and leave it a week to see how much it loses. The Elektroblock will only deliver a max of 6 amps to the starter battery and it will only divert charge to the starter battery after the leisure batteries are charged, so it could take a day or two to recharge the starter battery. Agree with others with battery volts that low it has seen better days best replace it. Once you get the engine running do check the alternator is charging battery voltage should be 14.2 with engine running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi Brian, no I didn't measure the battery with it connected to the charger - I may be daft but I'm not that bad, I promise!! :-) I saw a thread from Euroserv from 2011 in which he said none of his batteries have failed even on 4 year old vans with 250000 miles on them. Now I realise they are operating under very different conditions, but that is one reason why I want to check it out before assuming it is the battery. Part of my problem is I'm used to the level of reliability Toyotas provide, I'm not used to Fiats and their parts service life. My Avensis is 8 years old and is still on its original battery. I never replaced the battery on my last one in 11 years. I think it probably is the battery, I'm just wanting to make sure and thought I'd ask your opinions. I'm really impressed with the number of replies I've had so thank you all. I will get it checked out and will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm not sure what difference having a Fiat or Toyota makes to the life of an engine battery, but that's neither here nor there, batteries can and do fail prematurely, and my daughters 2002 Avensis has had three, or maybe four, so maybe you were batting above the average......or she's been unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 I would suggest its because Toyota use superior quality parts. The 2nd and 3rd aren't relevant on the one you mention unless they were supplied by Toyota, which I would imagine is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Don't wish to be pedantic but taken from Toyotas own website. http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/articles?id=RSAT1011 Car batteries have an average lifespan of four years. Starting problems If the battery is older than three or four years, look out for these signs and get to a certified Toyota Technician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hi Well that's not my experience. Maybe I've been lucky. Still think Toyota are better than Fiat tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Battery life often has as much to do with the amount and type of use as anything else and a car used regularly daily or a few times a week is more likely to have it's battery last longer than a rarely used motorhome that spends long times standing. Standing and being allowed to go dead flat is the true battery killer and dealers and convertors have a lot to answer for whne a van is left for weeks unstarted, so it is perhaps unfair to compare a car battery with a motorhome battery. That said the original Yuasa battery on our previous Toyota MR2 only expired after 100,000 miles and 8 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-14 4:41 PM Maybe I've been lucky. Still think Toyota are better than Fiat Only a fool would dispute that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Tracker - 2014-12-14 2:05 PM mikejkay - 2014-12-14 2:00 PM A potent argument for Solar Panels With the proviso that the constant daytime trickle charge can flatter the user into thinking that his batteries are all good because they always show a high voltage until he discovers in real world use that maybe their charge holding capability is not so great after all. The biggest killer of batteries is being left discharged. The second is over charging at too high a rate. A solar panel deals with both of these and keeps the battery healthy.but, I agree, it will not cope with a physical/mechanical failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-14 3:39 PM ......Part of my problem is I'm used to the level of reliability Toyotas provide, I'm not used to Fiats and their parts service life. My Avensis is 8 years old and is still on its original battery. I never replaced the battery on my last one in 11 yearsf..... The starter battery on my 2006-registered Fiat-based Hymer failed out of the blue one morning on holiday and needed replacement - but that was in 2013 so it had lasted quite a while. The MH was built to order in late 2005 so it lasted the best part of eight years. The chassis/cowl might have been stored in Hymer's yard for a while before being used because it was one of the later X244 models. My MH lives in a garage and on an EHU when not in use and that has probably helped its service life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 We too had a starter battery fail on the way home from Spain a few years back on an older van so I used one of the two leisure batteries to get us home without drama and we managed on one leisure battery for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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