trevor166uk Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi I've recently posted a thread about my 2010 Ducato needing a new cab battery (Fiat Ducato flat battery - advice please). Well I decided the battery was duff and put a new one on. the result was the van now starts and works and so on, but I've just noticed a funny electrical problem which I'm pretty sure wasn't there before. When I open the drivers door, the interior light comes on as normal, as does the display on the dashboard (The mileage display). But I also get illuminated very faintly 2 warning lights. these are the passenger airbag deactivation light and the low brake fluid level/handbrake on light. Like I say they only illuminate very dimly. When the mileage display illumination goes off a few seconds later these go off too. Also when I turn the ignition on all seems normal, but when I turn it off again, these same 2 lights illuminate very dimly. A short while later they go off totally. Wondering if it was anything to do with the battery I charged the old one up and put it back on, but the same thing happened with that one too. I'm still happy the old one was duff, it won't hold a charge. Has it always done this and I've just not noticed (Doubtful, I'm sure I would have seen it before). Has anyone any thoughts? Is it an early warning of something more sinister. Worried of Yorkshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I don't know about your problem but lights doing strange things often used to be a sign of a bad earth connection back in the old days when things were much more simple and easy to follow? With luck Nick will be along shortly to hopefully shed some proper illumination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yes i thought of bad earth too, but where to start..... It does have a supplementary engine earth strap (on Nick's advice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I believe I've noticed something similar, I think it's only noticeable in the dark or dull weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 colin - 2014-12-16 7:14 PM I believe I've noticed something similar, I think it's only noticeable in the dark or dull weather. Sorry but I don't know that either! Perhaps one of the connections to the ECU which I seem to reacll have been the source of some aggro for a few owners, but care would be needed and I might be inclined to seek the help of a good auto electrician rather than go poking about where I don't know what I'm poking - always dodgy! EDIT Sorry Colin this was meant to be for Trevor but I got me postings crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi Just taken it for a drive in the dark. Firstly it drives just as it should. Secondly the 2 lights I have already described stay on (dimly) all the time whilst driving. It definitely wasn't doing this before. Any suggestions as to the cause or how to investigate gratefully received. And tracker is right, I don't want to poke around with the ECU! Still worried of Yorkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunseekers2 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi This is a common Ducato/Boxer problem. Do a search on here or Google and see what it throws up. Had the same problem on my van and just had a new Instrument cluster fitted and problem gone. My dealer even put me wise to it as they had rejected new vans from the factory with this problem and were advising all their clients to check thier vehicles. Have now got the Radio 'Code Error' message when the radio is switched on. Again cured by opening a door. Seems to be an earthing problem on this one. Another search on here or Google will confirm your not alone on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The usual cure for this one, as reported several times on the FIAT Forum is to change the instrument panel. Have a look at: http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/347250-warning-lights-malfunctions.html and http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/295479-faulty-dash-warning-lights.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I shudder to thing what a new panel and fitting costs but that is not an issue if under warranty. However it's far less humourous if it isn't under warranty so maybe there is a different answer that is less traumatic on the wallet. Maybe a used panel from abreaker - but it might show the same problem and will almost certainly have an incorrect mileage - assuming the panel includes the odometer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi Its 4 years old so well out of warranty. Any idea on cost anyone?? Even more worried of Yorkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunseekers2 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Regarding warranty I would take a good punt and take it back especially as yours is fairly new. It's a well documented problem within Sevell built vans as Google will tell you. When I took mine back (within warranty) the dealer I dealt with looked rather perplexed at it and said we'll see but there was no problem or resistance to changing the instrument cluster under warranty. I did however have the problem photographed and videoed on my phone to show them, even then the manafacturers to them denied any knowledge of a problem. I think its a batch problem with a dry joint earthing problem within the instrument panel so unfortunately no work around it's a panel change. Regarding mileage I think it takes it from the ECU but when they put mine in the panel was in Kilometers and they cocked it up in the change over so keep your mileage to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 As there has been mentions of "when I open the door", I don't suppose there's a chance it's a dodgy wire in the door-loom-bridging section?.... (.I seem to recall Nick(euroserve)mentioning that breaks in there were the cause of other odd and seemingly unrelated faults). :-S It'd be cheaper to check that, before going doing the "...you need the dash out and a whole new instrument cluster mate!.." route 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunseekers2 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The 'opening of the door' works with the 'Code Error' message for the radio.See here http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/X250-Peugeot-Boxer-2013-model-radio-problem/34982/ The lights on dim in the instrument panel I'm afraid is a new panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you can live with the, 'lights on dim' aspect, is there any reason to change the panel? Changing the panel sounds like an expensive operation and if nothing else is affected and the lights are not acting as heralds of doom, perhaps let sleeping dogs lie? Does anyone know what will happen if the problem is ignored; will it go away (or at least not lead to anything worse happening)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I have to wonder how many people have braved the cold, the rain and the wind to go and check their van's dashboard warning lights! Not me - if it ain't broke don't worry about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 This recent discussion relates to faintly glowing instrument-panel lights on a 2014 Peugeot Boxer http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Peugeot-Boxer-Battery-Fuel-Heater-Light/36516/ Received wisdom seems to be that, for an instant ‘fix’, the complete instrument cluster will need to be replaced. However, the following company may be able to provide a cheaper solution http://www.clusterrepairsuk.co.uk/ Minor electrical problems like this don’t usually heal themselves. Having said that, a couple of years ago my 2005 Transit-based motorhome’s LCD odometer display began to ‘break up’ but would return to a full read-out after a while. The fault worsened over time until, by June 2014, a complete odometer read-out never appeared. Then, when turning on the vehicle’s ignition prior to exiting the Brittany ferry on arrival at Portsmouth, I was startled to see that the fault had gone. Being pessimistic by nature, I anticipated that this would be a temporary respite and the fault would soon return, but the display remained fully functional until I sold the motorhome in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 A bit late to the party but here's my two pence worth... We had a similar issue with a 2007 van a couple of years ago. We assumed it was a faulty instrument set and because we had a spare one lying around; we swapped it. Made no difference. In the end we sold the vehicle to the trade before finding out exactly what was wrong but we had tried every obvious solution. I came to the conclusion that there must be a common power supply and or earth for the instrument set and the interior lights. When the driver's door is opened, the mileage display wakes up. In the same way; our phantom glowing lights were extinguished after 20 seconds or so (interior light time-out) or when the door was opened. Now I am thinking about it; there must be a body control module that contains the timer for the interior lights including the one for the inside of the cargo area on vans (20 minutes) that could be at fault. In any case, there were never any other issues with our vehicle and I doubt you will encounter any with yours as a result of this. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboymentalhealth Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I too hav3 just noticed this problem and am tempted to leave it but would it pass the mot with said lights on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 We had this problem without even realising it on our 2012 Ducato. The Fiat main dealer changed it with us even asking during a routine service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Jonboymentalhealth - 2014-12-17 6:39 PM I too hav3 just noticed this problem and am tempted to leave it but would it pass the mot with said lights on? There are certain warning lights that cannot be illuminated while the engine is running for the MOT test but since many of them DO come on when the ignition key is first turned, as long as they go off and stay off when started it will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi Thanks for all the advice. I have 2 further thoughts:- 1. I can live with it as the lights are only dim, but because one of them is the 'low brake fluid' warning light is it possible that an MOT tester say its a failure point with that light showing, even though its only dim, and comes on as normal when the ignition is turned on. 2. Just how hard is it to replace the instrument panel? Does it mean dismantling the whole dash or is there a simple way. The piece of dash above the instrument panel looks as though it may come off fairly easily, although I haven't tried. If it does a secondhand cluster is fairly cheap on ebay. Slightly less worried but still not happy of Yorkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Low brake fluid can be checked manually but I'm not aware of MOT rules on false lighting info.. I hold Trackers view if it aint broke don't fix it. Electronics can be subject to spurious behaviour. (My view, I only drive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-18 5:07 PM Hi Thanks for all the advice. I have 2 further thoughts:- 1. I can live with it as the lights are only dim, but because one of them is the 'low brake fluid' warning light is it possible that an MOT tester say its a failure point with that light showing, even though its only dim, and comes on as normal when the ignition is turned on. 2. Just how hard is it to replace the instrument panel? Does it mean dismantling the whole dash or is there a simple way. The piece of dash above the instrument panel looks as though it may come off fairly easily, although I haven't tried. If it does a secondhand cluster is fairly cheap on ebay. Slightly less worried but still not happy of Yorkshire Although I have read accounts of folks that have had their instruments changed under warranty; please bear in mind (if spending your own money) that when we swapped one IT DID NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. It is more likely that dealers have erroneously changed panels and have found that this was not the problem; fixed the actual problem and not owned up to their mistakes! It happens. Some dealers may have figured this out for themselves and done a simple repair and claimed for a panel that they have not fitted? That happens too! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 A quote from the AA website about the most recent MOT changes:- 'Warning lights As well as electronic parking brake and electronic stability control warning lights (where fitted) the MOT test will also include checks for the correct function of the following, where fitted; Headlight main beam warning light Electronic power steering warning light Brake fluid level warning light Seat belt pre-tensioner warning light' As the warning light I have illuminated dimly is the brake fluid level warning light there is therefore a danger of the vehicle failing an MOT. Because of this I am not inclined to just ignore the problem. Incidentally the brake fluid level itself is okay. Nick, can I ask, was it the same warning lights you had illuminated on the van you experienced this with? My vehicle is well out of warranty so I want to try to identify the issue myself. I appreciate your van wasn't cured by a replacement instrument panel, and am open to alternatives. How might I find out more about this 'body control module' which you speak of? I am still curious about how to remove the instrument panel though. I have a friend with a similar van and if its easy I could swap them over temporarily to see if that 'cures' it. I really am grateful for any advice. I'm also thinking of taking it to my MOT garage on Saturday to see what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 trevor166uk - 2014-12-18 10:52 PM I really am grateful for any advice. I'm also thinking of taking it to my MOT garage on Saturday to see what they think. That would be my chosen route, as they're the ones that'll be testing it, they're the ones you have to satisfy. My concern would be that in Nick's case, he said replacing the cluster didn't fix the fault..?.. (and he really knows his stuff when it comes to X250s..)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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