LordThornber Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm sure someone out there is going to answer this and make me look daft. Our Bailey 740 has the Alde 3010 system and has two bench seats up front which form a bed, between them and immediately before the "step up" into the cab are two heating vents. Our first winter trip has really tested the heating system, it is superb. However, the two vents between the seats hardly got warm. Every other outlet, radiator and vent was warm. I thought this odd as presumably the water flows in a circle. Here's the mad bit. I lifted one and then the other seat/bed and whoosh, the vents warmed 8-) Lowering the seats stopped the heat again. For the life of me I cannot think of an explanation. It didn't spoil the trip, the van's plenty warm enough. Our dealer is closed for Xmas so I couldn't get a solution there. Over to you boys and girls as ever Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The problem is lack of airflow over the 2 radiator units - I've seen the same thing myself. The water passing through the radiators/heat exchangers is the same temperature as in the units behind the seat backs (which they are between in terms of the heating circuit) but there is no airflow to allow the heated air to rise. They are fed from the airspace beneath the seat bases and this air is also being heated by the much larger radiators that heat the air rising up behind the seat backs, so it's never going to work; it's likely that there is actually a downward flow over them. Opening the flaps beneath the bunks or lifting the bunk baseswill allow more air in and help with the problem, as you've seen The solution is to give these 2 radiators their own independent air feed - something on my job list to look at. I don't think that there is an easy solution and it's unlikely that the dealers will be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hi Steve, thanks for your response and explanation. However, and I really do mean that - I'm not suggesting you're wrong, the vent as you enter the habitation door is even lower and is lovely and warm!! Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Yes, but look 6" below that vent and you'll see another vent down in the habitation step well. That is the input vent allowing a free circulation of air over the heat exchanger, hence plenty of warm air rising. The 2 saloon vents have no such arrangement so they just can't work, they are trying to draw air along a narrow wooden tunnel from below the seat bases against the suction of the larger heat exchangers below the seat backs. No air circulation = no heat. There must be a solution, but as standard they are never going to be up to much sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thanks again Steve, as soon as I wrote that last post I thought, ahh but there's a space to let air through (using your previous excellent explanation). Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 An update for those interested.. I emailed Bailey on this subject and they politely responded with contact your dealer. A procedure I am aware of but I thought they'd have at least forwarded my queries on this subject to their design or tech department. So I spoke with the excellent Joe in service at Campbells (now Prestons ), he explained that the coolness is possibly a mechanism for cooling the system. Hmm I thought, 2 vents in an area that is unheated, it seems odd but who am I to argue? Anyway I've put this to Bailey and we'll see what happens. I'd just like a definitive solution if there's one out there. And no disrespect to your answers Steve either 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The Bailey response sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 rolandrat - 2015-01-14 1:35 PM The Bailey response sounds about right. Right in the sense of contractual obligations but it seemed sensible to ask Bailey first as of course they built it. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 You would think that a company as big as Bailey would have technical department that could deal with customer queries/questions over the phone. From experience Auto-Trail are very good in that area you are never stone walled with a negative answer, they will always try to give good guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 I emailed customer service thinking they'd forward the queries to tech support (or an equivalent). Part of Baileys response was "as we cannot see the area of concern for ourselves" Just walk onto your production line and you'll soon see it - or is that too much like hard work/ not my job/insert as appropriate? Sorry Bailey - but you ain't shining here. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That's precisely why I would never buy a British built van. They could learn valuable lessons in customer service from the likes of Pilot, Frankia, LeVoyageur, Burstner, Hymer et all. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 peter - 2015-01-15 9:18 PM That's precisely why I would never buy a British built van. They could learn valuable lessons in customer service from the likes of Pilot, Frankia, LeVoyageur, Burstner, Hymer et all. :-) Likewise (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Not sure it helps to turn this thread into an exercise ring for hobby horses about British versus German/French manufacturers - and anyway Hymer have recently withdrawn access to their previously excellent technical response service in favour of contact via dealers only. I'm not familiar with Baileys but the Hymer S Class of 2001-2006 had a couple of radiators under the front seats as part of the "background" heating provision and I saw a similar arrangement on the Alde Stand at the NEC Show last November, so it must be a pretty standard arrangement. Clearly if a radiator is boxed in it will need airflow both in and out of the box in order to release warm air, so unless the design aim was purely to heat the underside of the seat or mattress on top of the box, more than one hole on each box will be needed to allow warmed air to flow. You can buy a variety of vent grills so your dealer should be able to cut a hole for you and trim it if necessary if you don't fancy doing the job yourself. The positioning of the extra holes won't be criticla as long as there is some vertical spacing from the original holes. As long as you avoid cutting into the radiator or water pipes, it shouldn't be a difficult job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well Bailey have now responded about this, and it has to be said it really isn't very useful.. Except for Bailey that is, as they're grateful for my valuable feedback 8-) In essence the response is if you put your hands under the vents (a physical impossibility) you wouldn't feel much heat. Lifting the seats/beds allows heat to flow because of air flow. I would've preferred them to say, the vents are a miserable failure of design. What on earth is the point of fitting 2 vents that cannot generate heat? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Any chance you post photo(s) of these vents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can sort of understand Bailey's point of view here. They've produced a very well insulated van that is heated very well by its Alde system and haven't given any assurances that vent X will perform as well as vent Y etc. Sure the output of these 2 heat exchangers could be improved upon,and I probably will modify them on mine just because it can be done, but as they are the van gets amply warm enough so I can see why they wouldn't consider this a big problem. We turned our heating on about an hour before leaving home on Friday and only turned it off when back home on Sunday. It just works away even while driving (although it doesn't have much to do because the cab heater alone seems to keep the hab area at around 18 degrees while freezing outside) and is near silent. Very impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Martyn Having looked at Bailey's 360 view of the van on their website, I'm sure Steve's diagnosis is correct. These vents compete with others for the same air source and, as they are low mounted, they lose, and in all probability serve mainly to feed air to the other, competing outlets. If, as seems the case, the source of air to all these vents is from within the under-seat lockers, it follows that a route for air to enter the lockers is required. In short, the system is trying to create a partial vaccuum in the under-seat lockers. It also seems, perhaps unsurprisingly, that your dealer does not have a member of the Institute of Heating and Ventilating Engineers on their staff. :-) A low sited grille, or even just a airgap, to feed air to both seat boxes seems to be required for the system to function optimally. My suggestion would be for this to be cut into the under-seat locker end panel, just behind the driver's and front passenger's seats, so that it is both unobtrusive and reasonably safe from knocks. I think you are correct, this is a design defect that Bailey need to rectify on all their vans of this series before they make too many more. They should supply modification kits to the dealers for the vans already sold. It should be an inexpensive fix, so it won't break them. I'd suggest you draw this to the attention of someone more senior at Bailey. It'll come back to bite them if they don't sort it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilreeves Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I never knew all foreign built vans had perfect customer services and never gave a reply what was not what the customer wanted to hear. Mercedes are German and have the worst customer services of any company I have ever had the pleasure in dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 ilreeves - 2015-01-19 3:52 PM I never knew all foreign built vans had perfect customer services and never gave a reply what was not what the customer wanted to hear. Mercedes are German and have the worst customer services of any company I have ever had the pleasure in dealing with. Welcome to the Forum ilreeves. Pity you had to start by indulging in sarcasm and off-topic comment but perhaps you'll learn that resisting that temptation will gain you more respect than trying to be a smart-arse, even if other people have irritated you with their off-topic comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Martyn, I did eventually get around to looking at this and the solution is quite simple. You'll need 2 blocks of foam approx 150mm x 150mm x 100mm. I had some upholstery foam which worked fine. Remove the 2 covers, 1 each side, at the forward end of each under-seat storage compartment. They cover the floor/cab joint and the upper part of the chassis rails, the loom and the Alde pipes. 5 screws each side beneath the circular plastic discs. Insert the foam into the end of the compartment that houses the Alde heat exchangers. Push it firmly in to make a good seal. Slot the foam to make a good seal around the loom and pipes. Replace the covers and the 2 vents will now draw their air through the shoe compartment above the battery box; both bulkheads are already slotted at floor level to allow air through. I may get one of the silver Alde vents and insert it into the front face of the step up to increase airflow, but the 2 vents now work well enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thanks for this Steve, all noted. In the meantime I'd taken to using nothing more technical than a elastic band around thelocker release button and its latch. Not very elegant but it works a treat, the heat flows through perfectly. Right, foam time!!! Thanks again. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Hmm? Sounds like designer "No Think", The ethos of any heating system is to convey the maximum of the heat output to the area needed. Air flow patterns are (should be) designed to maximise the flow. Which in real terms, means that the Inlet to any Heat exchanger Should be At least the same cross sectional area as the outlet(s). Then of course like everything, you have Losses. EG: We currently have the Caravan, hopefully not for much longer, The heater the Truma "Wafted Air" system, uses the Cream Aluminium ducting. To the rear of the `van Not bad, to the front of the `van (Closer) poor (to say the least!). What I suspect is that the section which goes to the front also has to cross the doorway. The designer(s) in their wisdom have routed it UNDER the floor Outside for about a Metre!!. So underneath the `van where it`s damned cold at all times the heater is actually needed. there is a 1metre "Radiator", heating the camp-site!!. I am currently trying to get my hands on some 3inch foam pipe insulation, and with that and a good "dollop" of that "Foam in a tin" I may be able to make a "proper" Job. So if anyone knows off a source of 3" (75mm/) foam pipe insulation?. At the last count it did not figure on any website I Found. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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