Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This video may be an advertising puff piece, and what would you expect in a free video. But it does show a new patent pending method of construction, and a very interesting look inside the Swift factory. (The Swift factory is awkward to get to with very little visible from the public road) Link to interesting video: http://www.swifttv.co.uk/video/smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I hope their "Smart" technology performs better than the earplugs they were both using. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks for sharing, Mr James. I did not know there was a Swift TV site. Although the link is primarily about caravans if you search around the site there are several videos on motorhome construction. Interesting to learn that a British company is employing material engineers to look at new construction methods. Stronger and lighter - got to be a winner for motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 As referred to in the video, the use of Polyurethane in construction to replace timber is not new. Using it throws up a whole new set of problems which hopefully Swift have taken into account. One of the biggest problems is structural rigidity, For less mobile uses this is usually overcome by increasing the size and bracing of structures and steel inserts moulded into the Polyurethane, Swift will have had to overcome this by other means or lose payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Have to laugh, their engineer kept going on about the materials being impervious to water & if water gets in it won't be a problem, he seemed to expect Swift vans to leak and of course he knows they do. Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem it may be worth buying one in the meantime I think I will stay well clear, especially as they appear to expect them to leak.! Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-01-02 10:09 AM I hope their "Smart" technology performs better than the earplugs they were both using. :D I think those foam earplugs just reduce the sound to a safe level. I find the wax type earplugs ('muffles' earplugs from Boots) more effective where you want to reduce the sound further for sleeping in a noisy place, because they are more airtight - moulding to the shape of my ear. But I haven't found any earplugs that stop the noise altogether. The wax type seem to reduce high pitched noise much more than low pitched noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 colin - 2015-01-02 10:44 AM As referred to in the video, the use of Polyurethane in construction to replace timber is not new. Using it throws up a whole new set of problems which hopefully Swift have taken into account. One of the biggest problems is structural rigidity, For less mobile uses this is usually overcome by increasing the size and bracing of structures and steel inserts moulded into the Polyurethane, Swift will have had to overcome this by other means or lose payload. In another part of the website they say they have done this by making the material denser in the parts where extra strength and rigidity is required. But since its the same material throughout the wall perhaps it can safely flex more. One of the problems with the traditional aluminum on one side with plastic or wood on the other, was that both sides expanded and contracted at different rates. Leading to bowing of the wall, stress on the joints and seals, leading to water ingress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Have to laugh, their engineer kept going on about the materials being impervious to water & if water gets in it won't be a problem, he seemed to expect Swift vans to leak and of course he knows they do. Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem it may be worth buying one in the meantime I think I will stay well clear, especially as they appear to expect them to leak.! Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. Yep 1978, who is behind the times Lenny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. isn't that what they have done with this new construction lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem They are giving a 10 year water ingress warranty with this new construction lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM they appear to expect them to leak.! Old ones perhaps. But as I said, they are they giving a 10 year water ingress warranty on the new construction. lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. He mentioned that somewhere. The advantage of being late to market is that you can research and develop more fully, and learn from the mistakes of others instead of making the same mistakes yourself. Apparently Swift have applied for patents on some of the solutions they have found to the problems with their competitors timber free construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-01-02 11:24 AM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Have to laugh, their engineer kept going on about the materials being impervious to water & if water gets in it won't be a problem, he seemed to expect Swift vans to leak and of course he knows they do. Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem it may be worth buying one in the meantime I think I will stay well clear, especially as they appear to expect them to leak.! Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. Yep 1978, who is behind the times Lenny? I can't understand their obvious bias against British vans. It seems they won't be happy until there is no British Industry left, and all we have to sustain us is rising house prices fueled by rising debt :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 There are a few purchasers on caravan forums who have observed that their SMART construction caravans are not totally timber free as the floor contains wood. Those who want completely wood free caravans have to opt for SMART HT which is the construction used in their top of the range Sterling and Elegance products and, as you would expect, are more expensive. Presumably the Swift motorhome range is of SMART construction (as opposed to SMART HT) so it would seem that wood is still used in the floor. From a quick read of the Swift website the distinction between SMART and SMART HT is not immediately obvious so anyone thinking of buying a SMART product needs to investigate precisely the kind of construction materials used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Peter James - 2015-01-02 11:39 AM rupert123 - 2015-01-02 11:24 AM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Have to laugh, their engineer kept going on about the materials being impervious to water & if water gets in it won't be a problem, he seemed to expect Swift vans to leak and of course he knows they do. Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem it may be worth buying one in the meantime I think I will stay well clear, especially as they appear to expect them to leak.! Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. Yep 1978, who is behind the times Lenny? I can't understand their obvious bias against British vans. It seems they won't be happy until there is no British Industry left, and all we have to sustain us is rising house prices fueled by rising debt :-( Hope this is not referring to me, if so you seem to have misunderstood my post. My last four vans have all been UK built, none have leaked. I just think it is amusing that Lenny seems to think a van that was designed in 1978 is somehow good. Some people like old stuff, Morgan still have a waiting list for cars, people buy antiques, some like Hymer, probably the same ones that buy Morgan and collect antiques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-01-02 2:27 PM Hope this is not referring to me, if so you seem to have misunderstood my post. My last four vans have all been UK built, none have leaked. I just think it is amusing that Lenny seems to think a van that was designed in 1978 is somehow good. Some people like old stuff, Morgan still have a waiting list for cars, people buy antiques, some like Hymer, probably the same ones that buy Morgan and collect antiques. Having seen & inspected Morgans close to, yet another piece of British junk, how they manage to get type approval is beyond be. I was referring to the fact that Hymer changed to timberless construction in 1978 and they have continually improved their methods over the years, where as Swift have only just woken up to the fact that their vans have been falling apart for the last 20 or 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Peter James - 2015-01-02 11:39 AM rupert123 - 2015-01-02 11:24 AM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 11:06 AM Have to laugh, their engineer kept going on about the materials being impervious to water & if water gets in it won't be a problem, he seemed to expect Swift vans to leak and of course he knows they do. Perhaps they need to spends some money on redesigning the body construction so they don't leak in the first place. Maybe in 10 -20 years time when they have proved they don't have a long term damp problem it may be worth buying one in the meantime I think I will stay well clear, especially as they appear to expect them to leak.! Also they are a bit behind the times, Hymer have been using their timber free PUAL System since 1978. Yep 1978, who is behind the times Lenny? I can't understand their obvious bias against British vans. It seems they won't be happy until there is no British Industry left, and all we have to sustain us is rising house prices fueled by rising debt :-( Easy, I don't want to spend by hard earned cash on a piece of junk that's going to leak, I've had a couple of British caravans, never again. Also I want:- A Class van LHD Hab door on RHS Fully winterised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The best thing about these 'new inventions' is that they show you how that new 'van/MH you bought last year was so poor (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-01-02 2:58 PM rupert123 - 2015-01-02 2:27 PM Hope this is not referring to me, if so you seem to have misunderstood my post. My last four vans have all been UK built, none have leaked. I just think it is amusing that Lenny seems to think a van that was designed in 1978 is somehow good. Some people like old stuff, Morgan still have a waiting list for cars, people buy antiques, some like Hymer, probably the same ones that buy Morgan and collect antiques. Having seen & inspected Morgans close to, yet another piece of British junk, how they manage to get type approval is beyond be. I was referring to the fact that Hymer changed to timberless construction in 1978 and they have continually improved their methods over the years, where as Swift have only just woken up to the fact that their vans have been falling apart for the last 20 or 30 years. Cannot see how they have improved much Lenny, still a few bits of bent ally with some plastic screwed to it. I would have thought you would have approved of Morgan, after all they still use the ancient construction methods like Hymer do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-01-02 2:27 PM Hope this is not referring to me, if so you seem to have misunderstood my post. My last four vans have all been UK built, none have leaked. No, Sorry if I gave that impression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-01-02 2:58 PM I was referring to the fact that Hymer changed to timberless construction in 1978. As I understand it, Hymer still use aluminium frames which creates other problems like a cold bridge which can cause condensation, and different rates of expansion. The new Swift method eliminates most of the metal framing, except at the corners where they have a patent pending insulated join to eliminate this problem. Together with the 10 year warranty and a cheaper van. Would you really have been so negative if a foreign company had come up with this *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Peter James - 2015-01-02 4:44 PM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 2:58 PM I was referring to the fact that Hymer changed to timberless construction in 1978. As I understand it, Hymer still use aluminium frames which creates other problems like a cold bridge which can cause condensation, and different rates of expansion. The new Swift method eliminates most of the metal framing, except at the corners where they have a patent pending insulated join to eliminate this problem. Together with the 10 year warranty and a cheaper van. Would you really have been so negative if a foreign company had come up with this *-) For a start there are no cold thermal bridges in Hymer construction. They use closed-pore PU foam which is impervious to water where as Swift are still using polystyrene which not only gives poor insulation but also allows water to capillary through it. Swift use standard ply for the inner wall Hymer use marine ply, Most of Swifts vans still use wood floors Hymer have been using GRP floors for quite a while now. Doesn't make any odds having a ten year warranty, don't want a van that has to be repaired every year I want one that doesn't leak or fall to bits in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift are still using polystyrene which not only gives poor insulation but also allows water to capillary through it. In the video Swifts Design Director said they looked at polystyrene and rejected it for that reason. So you'll have to think of another one ;-) lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift use standard ply for the inner wall Hymer use marine ply, Most of Swifts vans still use wood floors . Nope. He also says its a wood free construction (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 You need to buy foreign like I did, a Rapido, I only had two leaks last year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Peter James - 2015-01-02 8:00 PM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift are still using polystyrene which not only gives poor insulation but also allows water to capillary through it. In the video Swifts Design Director said they looked at polystyrene and rejected it for that reason. So you'll have to think of another one ;-) lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift use standard ply for the inner wall Hymer use marine ply, Most of Swifts vans still use wood floors . Nope. He also says its a wood free construction (lol) That's where Swift's claim is misleading. The floors are wood unless you pay for a premium caravan with SMART HT construction. Motorhome SMART has probably got a wooden floor. See my earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Peter James - 2015-01-02 8:00 PM lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift are still using polystyrene which not only gives poor insulation but also allows water to capillary through it. In the video Swifts Design Director said they looked at polystyrene and rejected it for that reason. So you'll have to think of another one ;-) lennyhb - 2015-01-02 4:57 PM Swift use standard ply for the inner wall Hymer use marine ply, Most of Swifts vans still use wood floors . Nope. He also says its a wood free construction (lol) I think you may find that the main core for the walls is EPS, Polyethylene is only used in place of the previous timber frame. Also as above styrofoam (thats closed cell EPS) is only used for floors in the higher specc'd caravans. You should also note they are using Ali extrusions in the construction as well. I do hope this system works out, and if properly engineered it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 As Colin says about the SMART only refers to the structural rigidity, if you watch the video properly you can see clearly they are only using basic polystyrene for the wall insulation . Like most manufacturers they still use a plywood inner wall, some upmarket German vans use aluminum for the inner wall N&B & Carthago are a couple, not aware of any British manufacturers doing it. Don't see how they justify their prices either, I paid less for my A Class Hymer than a mid range Swift costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I hope Swift and Elddis {Solid construction] are able to reduce damp in their products. I hope Auto Sleepers and Auto Trail take note although from what I hear, the latter has an overall build quality issue rather than damp. We need a good UK motorhoming manufacturing capability if attitudes to motorhoming in the UK are to change for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.