nowtelse2do Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 You won't read too much of this before the elections. >:-( Dave A FAIR DEAL FOR THE MOTORIST ROAD PRICING - BACK FROM THE DEAD? A QUICK SUMMARY KEY ISSUES AND LINKS Government ambitions National road pricing is certainly controversial. Previous governments have considered initiatives but dropped plans in the face of public opposition or technical issues. In November 2011, the Government released an ‘independent’ report on the stewardship and financing of major roads in England (‘the Cook report’). Analysis showed that the intention that Government should largely privatise the operation, if not the ownership of England’s Strategic Road Network (SRN), with ministers largely washing their hands. The SRN would be sweated for maximum economic return, with perks for the commercial managers. In its response in May 2012, the government overwhelmingly accepted the report. It identified follow-up actions, such as discussing ‘route based strategies’ to consider and sell the idea of tolling routes that are currently free. This would be a policy shift - see the article on plans for the A14 in Cambs, being discussed at the same time. The Government has also committed to bring in a lorry road user charge, ‘LRUC’, in England. This has been controversial and there is speculation that it will lay the foundations for wider road pricing. The 2012 Budget showed that the Treasury wants more income from drivers. Other interested parties The Government is not the only interested party. The EU has a vision of compulsory road pricing for all vehicles on all roads, which it wants to pursue from 2015/6. (The 2014/5 timescale for its vehicle tracking Galileo satellite matches that proposed for the LRUC). The EU also seeks to manage major routes as a ‘Trans European Network’ under a common approach, and wants a large increase in infrastructure investment to meet economic growth targets. Its own road pricing consultation was launched in August 2012. The Government has set up a controversial Motorists’ Forum – in the name of representing motorists. However the range of interests represented are commercial, government and lobbyist rather than the voice of Britain’s 33 million motorists, and it amazingly includes a representative of an anti-motorist group. In 2014, the Government launched the Infrastructure Bill, seeking to turn the Highways Agency into a company (‘Highways England’) with road tolling powers. For some reason, its Press Release on the Bill’s progress was less than open about the latter ambition. It is also proposing to extend the Passenger Focus group into ‘Transport Focus’, covering major roads users. Wider issues Other issues that may be relevant include: * public acceptability, social equity and fairness * propping up stressed public finances, * the Government’s overall spending priorities, * addressing congestion, * avoiding having to build more capacity * pushing drivers onto public transport to appease that lobby * whether road user demand is actually increasing * links with infrastructure expansion (e.g. housing) and population growth * 'the environment' / carbon emissions, * population surveillance * commercial opportunities (e.g. selling travel data, at least at aggregate level), * rake-offs for vendors of road pricing technology (under the guise of ‘Intelligent Transport Systems’, ITS), something also promoted by the EU. Recommended resources Alliance of British Drivers (ABD) National Association Against Tolls (NAAT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 MMM, nothing that hasn't been thought of before : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/05/roadpricing_trials_under_way/ Note the Date !! the technology is too easily fooled , any black box ;Compulsorily fitted into folks cars can easily be wrapped in thick tin foil, ANPR is likewise easily fooled with strips of reflective tape. Our roads have been bought and paid for Ten times over, since the Motor vehicle was invented. I don't object to a fixed 'Road Tax' or Fund/licence or whatever they like to call it, but would set about avoiding activily paying any Private Company, trying to charge us to use something we already own. And I expect many others would too, we are governed by Consent. NOT private enterprise. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm all for it. Why should people who never use motorways or don't even have one near their homes subsidise those who do? Ignore any nonsense about cheating, people already cheat and even drive without insurance, and the technology is there to find out the ones who are avoiding paying. Obviously if we have road tolls then there should be lower road tax or lower fuel tax to compensate, but we don't give most people free travel on buses or trains so why should we give them free access to our expensive motorways? The French have the right idea and they also have the brains to let private companies run their motorway tolls' system. Private enterprise will do the job more cheaply and more efficiently than any monolithic, over-bureaucratic state organisation. My God, have we all forgotten British Telecom when you waited a year for a party line, or British Steel or the shambles that was British Leyland? Have we forgotten the poverty of countries such as the USSR and DDR where socialist command economies kept the population in the dark ages? Bring it on, please! We'll get more and better roads and the motorways won't be as congested because loads of the stingier people will struggle along minor roads rather then pay tolls, just like in France! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 So that's the answer. The rich can afford to pay so the serfs can use the back roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 nowtelse2do - 2015-01-06 6:16 PM So that's the answer. The rich can afford to pay so the serfs can use the back roads. If they can afford to pay high prices for fuel and higher road tax than in France then, if these are lower, as in France, they'll be able to afford tolls. It's quite simple really. That way, just like buses and trains, those who use a service pay for it and those who don't, don't. That seems simple to me as well, and fairer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 What on earth made you think our motorways are free. The road tax was originally the road fund licence brought in to pay for new roads and the repair and maintenance of existing roads until that is the treasury realised how much unused finance was available to steal in the name of tax. Since then fools have been brainwashed into believing that our roads were subsidised by general taxation and what makes you think that there would be any reduction in existing taxation of the cash cow motorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-01-06 5:37 PM I'm all for it. Why should people who never use motorways or don't even have one near their homes subsidise those who do?...................... It seems quite unreasonable to suggest that those who don't directly use motorways (or presumably other publicly funded services) gain no benefit from their existance. How do their goods get delivered? How do their service providers travel? We all use, all roads, all the time. Some more than others, but I'd be interested to hear of anyone whose life is conducted without the use, directly or indirectly, of roads - or pretty much anything else that is publicly funded for that matter. After all, is the greater collective economic benefit of such provisions not the main reason they were first publicly funded? We used to have turnpikes with toll cottages spread along them. If that had proved such an enduringly good idea, it would surely have survived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Absolutely correct Brian and.......... I'm trying to work out why folk like myself who drive a bog standard Ford Focus pay road fund duty, yet many do not pay any road fund duty at all, perhaps their cars have zero impact on the wear and tear of the road network.........seems to me the dash to be seen to be green by making some cars zero rated, and some only £30 was a little ill thought out, the irony being of course they all impact on road wear, and many of them being diesel are now being regarded as public enemy number one when it comes to pollution, despite all the under engine technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The M6 Toll road has been branded a ‘basket-case’ after 10 years of losses left the UK’s only pay to drive motorway facing a bleak future. Operators Midland Expressway Ltd announced that the road chalked up pre-tax losses of £32.5 million in 2013 – despite benefiting from roadworks and endless delays on the M6 ;-) :D As for France, there is normally an equally viable and for the most part traffic free alternative, I can just imagine folk flocking on to the A5 instead of the M1 if it was a toll road.........oh hang on a minute, many do, and it's still gridlocked on both. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 The government is already considering raising the duty on fuel, they are losing revenue because of the price of fuel falling at the pumps. Don't expect anymore vehicle licence tax to come down neither. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 There are now countless numbers of cars not paying any "road tax" at all, the range of manufacturers and models is mind boggling, it seems more than a bit bonkers to me, they all use the bloody roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 We have a house in SW France, and just occasionally have to go to the nearest "big" town, Toulouse, for shopping. We can choose between a motorway or an N route, the motorway costs about €40 each way and takes 75 mins, the N route is free but takes over 2 hours, more in the rush hour. Because we have a clever car I can tell that we use more fuel on the N route, and it is a most frustrating journey, whereas, even in the rush hour the motorway is quick and easy, with no stress. I am retired, I have all the time in the world, and I really love just pottering about, especially away from the major road systems, but travelling along N routes is not my idea of fun. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 nowtelse2do - 2015-01-06 6:16 PM So that's the answer. The rich can afford to pay so the serfs can use the back roads. That's unfettered capitalism for you ;-) ................They get the taxpayer to pay to build the road through some PPI scam, then charge the taxpayer to use them *-) ...............It's partly why the NHS is up sh*t creek :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-01-06 8:03 PM There are now countless numbers of cars not paying any "road tax" at all, the range of manufacturers and models is mind boggling, it seems more than a bit bonkers to me, they all use the bloody roads. 15 years time Horace will be road tax free B-) ..............I've also discovered he'll be LEZ compliant :D .........anyone know any campsites near Trafalgar square I can book for 2030? (lol) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think we can all guess who's funding your lifestyle, no doubt you're looking forward to April when the benefits are uprated. ;-) Paid for by all those capitalists, and folk like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-01-07 12:19 PM I think we can all guess who's funding your lifestyle. Pouffes & Pelmets.........but mostly the government via er in doors pensions :D .............. My toyboy investment has paid out after 30 years B-)........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Pouffes & Pelmets three months of the year, but always boasting of not paying any tax...................yes.......sure. You can fool some of the people some of the time blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-01-07 12:30 PM Pouffes & Pelmets three months of the year, but always boasting of not paying any tax...................yes.......sure. You can fool some of the people some of the time blah blah Your welcome to check my accounts ;-) .................If you don't spend it you don't need to earn it B-) ......... Although running your own business does mean a lot of stuff is tax deductible, like this computer :-> ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 10k a year nett before you're into taxation, sure you can can live on that...........pull the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The government has to raise a certain of amount in tax. It's like a bubble under wall paper, you move it around but it won't go away. Income tax, VAT, fuel duty, VED, road tolls who cares. Now when all vehicles are chipped so their mileage is logged and charged accordingly we should all be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Intresting point. I wonder how long it will be before humans are chipped to track and tax their movments :-S The technology is already here. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 nowtelse2do - 2015-01-07 2:41 PM Intresting point. I wonder how long it will be before humans are chipped to track and tax their movments :-S The technology is already here. Dave The smart phone + GCHQ + link to HMRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Muswell - 2015-01-07 2:58 PM nowtelse2do - 2015-01-07 2:41 PM Intresting point. I wonder how long it will be before humans are chipped to track and tax their movments :-S The technology is already here. Dave The smart phone + GCHQ + link to HMRC I was thinking more on the lines of a chip placed in the neck from birth. I could throw the smart phone into a container heading anywhere in the world. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-01-07 12:57 PM 10k a year nett before you're into taxation, sure you can can live on that...........pull the other one. Correction 20k a year as a couple ;-) ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yer slipping, on benifits you get £25k, you might get some more if you claim for Horace as a carer :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.