pepe63xnotuse Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 rolandrat - 2015-01-15 2:01 PM Just looking at the latest picture of your roof there appears to be a lot of roof space taken up with extras that could affect the free flow of rainwater depending on how level the motorhome is when parked up.. ...and check out the bulbous overcab and narrow run off channels, shown in the photo I re-posted up thread... The overall design certainly doesn't make run-off easy, to start with..... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Michele I am not being disrespectful but trying to help find the way through the problems you have had with respect to the damp you have found on the mattresses. Correct me if I am wrong but reading all your posts including the ‘OhHeki’ one you have had 3 occasions where you have had ‘water issues’. The first was in 2012 where you had a problem with the front Heki whereby there was a deluge of water whilst you were on holiday. You have stated clearly that this was repaired to your satisfaction and Autotrail replaced furnishings etc. The second occasion was in February 2013 whereby you state “ Last Feb we arranged to meet a man at the camper in storage to come fit a wheelchair tracking system for us. When we realised the back two matresses were soaked & an additional Ikea matress. We brought them home and told the guy we would be back in touch with him as soon as we sorted this out . We checked every where you could think of and no wet from anywhere could we find ...Since then its had hab checks etc etc”. Note that this was in winter and over the rear transverse bed. The third occasion is on the 08 January 2015 whereby you state “today I went to check on it and put in new Humidifiers check it all over for winter and the back beds are soaked again . Soaking wet ” Note again that this is in winter and over the transverse bed again. On the last two occasions you have said that you cannot see any evidence of water staining anywhere and in fact on the second occasion (Feb 13) you had it inspected by a local guy and all OK, yet you say that you think there is “water by the bucket load is getting in”. You have also said that “all serviced each year by approved dealerships. And both habitation checks done by approved dealerships. All present and correct . ...... Actually the first hab and service was done by the dealership . The second we didnt make it because we wound up in LIMP home mode and had to find a recognised garage at this end . BUT we did call the dealership and had this one recommended”. You have been away in the motorhome on other occasions and went away in the motorhome to Brugge in December 2014 and you said that “a week in Brugge just me and him down time. No water no leaks and it rained .Matter of fact i couldnt sleep expecting water to come in and get me”. 2014 was one of the wettest years we have had yet you have had no water penetration during that time. I suggested to you before that the problem could be condensation on the ceiling of the rear bedroom during times when we have air with quite a high moisture content and then plunging temperatures in the night. I have seen this with mine and explained it to you and no it is not just surface damp, but water hanging in globules on the surface of the ceiling panel – this will drop off onto surfaces below. It doesn’t happen that often but I experienced it this only a few weeks ago. I did ask whether you closed the rear habitation door as you do need good air circulation and opening up the motorhome from time to time to help prevent this happening – I know that this can be a problem especially if you have it in storage. I am sorry for what seems to be a forensic examination, but if you are going up against the likes of AutoTrail (or any manufacturer for that fact) or your dealer, this is what they will do before they undertake to commit to any works. On another point – why did you pay for the works to the engine when it went into ‘limp home mode’ ? The AutoTrail 2012 models came with a 2 year warranty with a further 1 year insurance backed warranty on both the Fiat side and the habitation part. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Insurance backed warranties can be a minefield to negotiate, there are so many inbuilt barriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi Michele Can you explain something? Your van is, I think, an AT Chieftain DD with a transverse rear double bed. However, you said BOTH rear mattresses were wet. Is the rear double bed mattress split into two parts, or are we back with the front beds under the big Heki again? If the problem is with the rear double mattress getting wet, and you can't see any signs of water staining or damp on the ceiling, I'm beginning to think the moving finger points to the rear Heki. The volumes of water you've described (even if you're exaggerating a bit :-D) are heroic. I just can't see that volume coming from anywhere other than the roof. Were the wet areas more or less under the Heki? Is it possible that when the van is in storage it is angled so that water builds up on the rear part of the roof, in the way it seemed to be doing at the front? I think you said the original front Heki was changed by AT when they repaired the van? Did you ever find out from them exactly what they found was the problem? Might it have been a defective Heki, and might the rear Heki have the same defect? Why? Because if water is getting in through, or over, the Heki upstand, as it seemed to have at the front, it wouldn't leave any trace on the ceiling. It would just tip in around the Heki and land on the bed. There would be a few drips around the Heki frame, but those would dry off quite quickly to leave no trace at all. This seems to coincide with your experience. Incidentally, just checked the Met Office weather summaries for January/February 2014. Exceptionally wet and stormy, as we all probably remember. Same this past few weeks. So, with high winds and heavy rain prevalent around both occasions you discovered the mattress wet, this seems even more to point to the Heki as the source of the problem. Is water being driven by wind against the Heki upstand, and just tipping over it's top edge? If this can be established, it is water ingress as I understand it, so should be covered under AT's water ingress warranty and not under their general warranty. I assume there is no chance whatever that the rear Heki had been left unlocked, or that the lock is ineffective, so that the wind just sucked it open, and it later slammed shut? Sorry, lots of questions! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Possible pooling, due to insufficient run off, and overflowing the Heki upstand, was something that I'd guessed at up thread(and in Michele's OH HEKI! thread) .. If it was seeping in through "strata" of the roof, you'd expect it to leave obvious staining, wouldn't you?.. especially in the volumes that are being talked of.... Until it's sorted, I'd be parking one end on quite high blocks..although the problem being, looking at the photo of the roof(with it's lips, clutter and poor run off channels), which end?... 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 As Brian has pointed out, it can and does happen. My Auto-Trail 634 had to have the roof light modified at the factory as water was getting over the lip. A rubber strip was placed over the edge which improved the situation and also reduced the cold airflow when travelling along the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 In my case there wasn't any noticeable staining to trace back to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Except that there does not appear to be any obstruction to water run off from the rear of the roof. However, if the van were parked tail to the wind, I just wonder what might happen in heavy rain and gales. That would result in quite strong eddies over that tail end spoiler moulding, which is on the latching side of the acrylic dome. Might that flex it sufficiently to open a gap, or just blow the water under the dome and over the upstand? Just thinking aloud! Does anyone have access to an AT roof with a Heki in a similar position? Twice in 12 months, both times during really bad weather, seems a bit much for mere coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just looking at the picture of the roof the small roof light to the right of the sat dish, the seal looks very suspect. Usually they have a ribbon seal which looks quite neat, that seems to have had some extra sealant put round it and not smoothed off. Maybe there could be a leak there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-01-16 3:16 PM However, if the van were parked tail to the wind, I just wonder what might happen in heavy rain and gales. That would result in quite strong eddies over that tail end spoiler moulding, which is on the latching side of the acrylic dome. Might that flex it sufficiently to open a gap, or just blow the water under the dome and over the upstand? Yes, as them swapping the previous "leaking" vent for one with seals, supposedly fixed that, it'd be worth just trying to block up any gap in the rear one(strips of foam? some cut up pipe lagging?), just to see if it helps.. ..and there does seem to be a slight ridge along the rear edge, so even if it held just a few mm of water on the roof, that may be enough to get whipped up by the wind.... (Re: Little Heki/messy sealant. That's the loo and Michele said in the original thread that it wasn't leaking in through that one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 rolandrat - 2015-01-16 3:34 PM Just looking at the picture of the roof the small roof light to the right of the sat dish, the seal looks very suspect. Usually they have a ribbon seal which looks quite neat, that seems to have had some extra sealant put round it and not smoothed off. Maybe there could be a leak there. The small roof light you are referring to is the omnivent extract over the kitchen area which is well away from the bedroom. They are a different plastic to the Hekis and do look 'dirty' and muck sticks to the base where the mastic squeezes out, although the bit to the left of it looks odd or is it a build up of leaf material. I have the large panoramic window over the cab roof on my 2013 AT plus 2 smaller Hekis and the omnivent over the kitchen. On the forward facing edge of my Heki's there is a small aluminium angle in front of them which defects driving rain from pushing up and under the roof light. I do regularly clean the roof of my motorhome and use a hose to jet away the leaves from under the edge of the roof lights and have never got a drop of water past them. Like Brian I too thought about whether the motorhome was parked level in storage or not but then I hark back to 2 incidences in almost 2 years ( Feb 2013 and December 2014) but nothing in between yet our weather is / has / can be wet at any time of the year and certainly 2014 proved that to be the case. Thee roof on my AT looks cluttered too and the only pooling of water occurs near the front over cab part but we have not had any issues with that apart from if we set off in the rain, the water shots off the top when I stop sharply. I can see onto the roof of our motorhome outside our house and have watched it in very heavy rain and apart from the front as described above, the water finds its way off the roof with little trouble. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 AlanS - 2015-01-16 6:33 PM........................Like Brian I too thought about whether the motorhome was parked level in storage or not but then I hark back to 2 incidences in almost 2 years ( Feb 2013 and December 2014) but nothing in between yet our weather is / has / can be wet at any time of the year and certainly 2014 proved that to be the case...................Alan Alan, I think that first leak onto the bed was probably Feb '14. Michele (writing in Jan this year), said it was last Feb, which I took to mean Feb '14, which was especially wet and wild. Doubtless she will clarify when she's next on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-01-16 7:01 PM AlanS - 2015-01-16 6:33 PM........................Like Brian I too thought about whether the motorhome was parked level in storage or not but then I hark back to 2 incidences in almost 2 years ( Feb 2013 and December 2014) but nothing in between yet our weather is / has / can be wet at any time of the year and certainly 2014 proved that to be the case...................Alan Alan, I think that first leak onto the bed was probably Feb '14. Michele (writing in Jan this year), said it was last Feb, which I took to mean Feb '14, which was especially wet and wild. Doubtless she will clarify when she's next on. Brian Michele clearly stated Feb 2013 in one of her posts so that is why I quoted it. Yes, perhaps she can clarify but irrespective of this I am still not convinced about the driving rain forcing under and over the roof light upstand. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 As I said, just thinking aloud, Alan. The Heki is above the bed, and it is the bed that has got wet. The volume of water Michele describes seems far too much for condensation inside a reasonably insulated, unoccupied, motorhome. It seems the water is clean and has not caused stains, tending to point to a fairly short path from the point of entry. The ingress is sporadic, and not every time it rains. Re February, you're right, Michele quoted "Feb 13" in a later post, when she found the mattress very wet. From the Met Office Jan/Feb 13 were neither particularly wet or windy, just cold and a bit snowy. So one leak when cold and not so wet or windy, the other, two winters later, when it was relatively mild but quite wet and windy, and the intermediate winter, when it presumably didn't leak, was when it was exceptionally wet and windy. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 When I was experiencing major water ingress with my Auto-Trail 634 the factory removed ALL the roof lights to try and source the problem which included the toilet one as well. If you have seen one removed the supporting surround between the roof and lower roof lining is timber so if any water had back tracked it would show in that particular area. On one occasion after being told our motorhome was ready for collection we travelled from Lancashire to Grimsby where it was handed over to us. Without checking their work we returned home and parked it in it's usual place where my wife decided to put some of our gear back in. A short time later my wife shouted that I'd better have a look inside the toilet as the roof light was on the floor. I couldn't believe it, there it was, on the floor. I immediately rang the Auto-Trail workshop and the response was as you can imagine quite blue with shock. I was told that a fitter had forgot to refit it and that a fitting team would be at our property early the following morning to put it right. True to his word the fitter arrived and fitted a brand new roof light. It was a genuine mistake and was sorted to our satisfaction. I mentioned Micheles toilet roof light because although it isn't directly over her bed as has been pointed out, it could still be a source of water ingress. Maybe a dealer wouldn't want to go to the trouble of removing all the roof lights, but if her situation has to be investigated further then that might have to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 And don't forget the Truma flue. The locking nut inside against the ceiling had come loose on ours and we now have a water stain on the ceiling in the wardrobe. I only found it after having water drip through a light fitting over the door nearby :-( Keith. Edit to add: There was no sealant on it, only the rubber grommet pulled down onto the fibreglass roof. I have now sealed it with a non-setting Sikaflex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 rolandrat - 2015-01-16 3:34 PM Just looking at the picture of the roof the small roof light to the right of the sat dish, the seal looks very suspect. Usually they have a ribbon seal which looks quite neat, that seems to have had some extra sealant put round it and not smoothed off. Maybe there could be a leak there. My Savannah is exactly the same, The standard 'MK' obscured vent on mine is over the Shower, Finish on the roof is very messy,as Michelle's is, but it doesn't leak. My Rear Heki is also in Roughly the same place, but mine is over the Aisle in between the twin rear beds. I have never had any condensation, or leaks from our rear Heki. My van is always parked with a distinct 'Tail Up' on our steeply sloping driveway, and the amount of water that cascades down over the Windscreen into the Scuttle is almost 'Biblical', sometimes overtopping the scuttle, and I always make sure that all the scuttle drains are unblocked (not so hard now that the leaves have stopped falling). There isn't a lot of space for 'Pooling' of water on Michelle's roof, once the Air Conditioner,Heki's and 2 aerials, + vent for the gas fire, taken into consideration. I can quite see how a slight 'Nose up' attitude whilst stored could result in the rear Heki being 'Overtopped'. I have looked at my rear spoiler moulding, and it would act as a Dam for water falling on the roof, that wasn't able to drain off to the front. Both Sides are likewise high lips, basically forming a fishpond on the roof. Not a very intelligent design. (IMHO). Drain Offs on both Sides should have been incorperated, to allow water to drain away better. Ray ps. Michelle is a VERY busy lady,I think that her Dealer needs to 'step up to the plate' to sort her problem AND QUICK, perhaps with Autotrails boot up their Bum !! She obviously types on here quickly in between her carers reponsiblities, wouldn't think she has much time for 'Testing' the van. Or trying to 'prove' anything.She just needs HELP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 That's a very good point about the Truma flue, it has been mentioned some time previous and it's good to remind us. The flange can become brittle and crack with age as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydeco Joe Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hi Michele, so sorry about all your problems. Is that a roof mounted Air Con unit you have on your van ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Michele, we had a leak in our Tracker earlier this year when it was in storage. It turns out that in a downpour the water on the roof doesn`t run off quickly enough, pools around the Heiki then eventually overflows into the van and drips through the little vent looking things. When we park it up now we put the levellers under the front wheels so that the front is higher making a better run off angle. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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