New "All the Aires" Edition 5 Thoughts?.

[Curtisden]

Well the new All the Aires edition 5 dropped through the door this morning and at first glance Vicarious Books have done a great job with the new twin volume and larger format offering.

But then a few questions started to appear as I looked through the volumes and thought of using them in transit as we all will?

First the new 2 volume layout is near A4 in overall size and is divided into separate volumes for north and south France which may work but means a thinner binding.

This will mean that the book has to be opened wider to reach a page and resulting in a book overall size being not much short of 2 A4 pages on your lap side by side?

As so it's not as strong a spine and considering the failure of this in the last 4 edition a worry maybe.

The book will need to open 180 degrees to lay flat something the old edition could not do.

Then as its thiner and larger overall it can not stand up in the normal way and will have to be laid flat in storage. If you can find a space large enough. It most certainly will not fit in the under dash storage shelf or overhead locker standing on edge?

So overall good book but pity about the design changes?

 

[StuartO]

They have included more Aires of course, but we've now got two A4 volumes of about the same thickness replacing one A5 volume, so it's got nearly four times heavier. The Location Map is a smaller scale, which means a smaller map to unfold but more difficult to see where the Aires are in areas where there are a crowd of them. The lsitings are very similar, so the only additional information is a second photograph - which will sometimes but not always be useful. And of course the price has gone up quite a bit.

 

For reaction is that I would rather have done without the second photo and stuck to A5 but It's still good value for those of us who tour predominenty in France and use Aires, so I'll reserve judgement until I have had experience of using it.

[Charles Chodkowski]

It's a bit big!

[Guest Had Enough]

Mine arrived today and I love them. They've got many more aires than previously so sticking to one book would have been a problem and I like having photos.

 

The size isn't a problem when the book is open on the navigator's lap and most atlases are that size and usually larger and we manage with those.

 

 

[Guest Joe90]

Can't understand anyone using French Aires, rough car parks in undesirable locations, populated with undesirable cheapskates, and where you're likely to get robbed or gassed........give me a fully featured site any day of the week............ :D

[Guest Had Enough]

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 11:30 AM

 

Can't understand anyone using French Aires, rough car parks in undesirable locations, populated with undesirable cheapskates, and where you're likely to get robbed or gassed........give me a fully featured site any day of the week............ :D

 

Intelligent people mix and match. I use aires when in transit, if they're good ones. I use them occasionally if they're not crowded and where I want to be for a couple of days. But if they're a jam-packed car park I'll use a nice municipal or private site in preference.

 

Unintelligent or tight people are the ones who'll use aires that are rubbish and where they're packed like sardines, when there's a lovely, reasonably-priced site nearby. And it's clear that there are many people on here like that.

 

Having an open mind about where to stay is the secret. I hope that helps for your next trip.

[Guest Joe90]

Intelligent people probably wouldn't moan on a forum about having to wait to get water either.....

 

probably can't work it out that instead of moaning they could just as easily get supplies elsewhere if it was such a hassle to wait a few minutes.

 

I hope that helps for your next trip ;-)

[dora_ex]

With the ever increasing number of aires maybe the time is getting closer for a Sat Nav version (is that called a POI download?).

 

Our current Snooper has a Camperstop facility and does pick up many, many of the aires, shows photos, gives details etc. Not sure its as complete as the VB All the Aires but it covers most countries in Europe.

 

Rather than books we would happily buy a download version if it were available. Sure some would rather the books but it could be a move with the time to offer both?

[Guest Had Enough]

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 1:25 PM

 

Intelligent people probably wouldn't moan on a forum about having to wait to get water either.....

 

probably can't work it out that instead of moaning they could just as easily get supplies elsewhere if it was such a hassle to wait a few minutes.

 

I hope that helps for your next trip ;-)

 

Perhaps you could tell me where I could get water in the city of Cologne? As you well know, I wasn't moaning, simply highlighting a big problem with aires, which is that they often have only one water point and, if you're in a hurry to leave, and there are three 'vans queuing up you're in trouble. I wasn't in a big hurry fortunately as I had to wait nearly half an hour before I could fill up.

 

On a site I top up regularly from taps that are never more than a few yards away.

 

But I ask you again, you're on an aire in Cologne, there's a big queue for the only borne and you need to move but you also need water. Where would you get it? I'm sure you'll have another smart-alec response which will mean absolutely nothing, as usual when you're found out. One thing I know you won't supply is an intelligent answer.

 

It really is time that you grew up and acknowledged that aires aren't perfect and have some drawbacks, water supply being one. A regular sight on aires is a queue of 'vans at the borne, sometimes for a long time. You know it, I know it and so does any other person who uses busy aires.

 

 

[Curtisden]

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 3:08 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 1:25 PM

 

Intelligent people probably wouldn't moan on a forum about having to wait to get water either.....

 

probably can't work it out that instead of moaning they could just as easily get supplies elsewhere if it was such a hassle to wait a few minutes.

 

I hope that helps for your next trip ;-)

 

Perhaps you could tell me where I could get water in the city of Cologne? As you well know, I wasn't moaning, simply highlighting a big problem with aires, which is that they often have only one water point and, if you're in a hurry to leave, and there are three 'vans queuing up you're in trouble. I wasn't in a big hurry fortunately as I had to wait nearly half an hour before I could fill up.

 

On a site I top up regularly from taps that are never more than a few yards away.

 

But I ask you again, you're on an aire in Cologne, there's a big queue for the only borne and you need to move but you also need water. Where would you get it? I'm sure you'll have another smart-alec response which will mean absolutely nothing, as usual when you're found out. One thing I know you won't supply is an intelligent answer.

 

It really is time that you grew up and acknowledged that aires aren't perfect and have some drawbacks, water supply being one. A regular sight on aires is a queue of 'vans at the borne, sometimes for a long time. You know it, I know it and so does any other person who uses busy aires.

 

 

Not wishing to get involved in this name calling scrap but as being the OP of this subject may I offer my 5 pennyworth?

I use Aires but I also use wild camp sites in rural areas. Municipals now and again but rarely large sites. Reason has nothing to do with cost but getting away from my fellow campers.

I visit many remote locations in Europe following my interests with the Great War and tracing SOE sites and find wild camping suites my needs fine in these locations

Re water and dumping grey water the answer is simple.

On my TomTom I have all aires listed as POI and have them set up to warm me if we pass within 2 miles of my route, That way I can fill up and dump on mainly deserted Aires during the day on our travels when the bell sounds.

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Curtisden - 2015-01-20 5:51 PM

 

 

Not wishing to get involved in this name calling scrap but as being the OP of this subject may I offer my 5 pennyworth?

I use Aires but I also use wild camp sites in rural areas. Municipals now and again but rarely large sites. Reason has nothing to do with cost but getting away from my fellow campers.

I visit many remote locations in Europe following my interests with the Great War and tracing SOE sites and find wild camping suites my needs fine in these locations

Re water and dumping grey water the answer is simple.

On my TomTom I have all aires listed as POI and have them set up to warm me if we pass within 2 miles of my route, That way I can fill up and dump on mainly deserted Aires during the day on our travels when the bell sounds.

 

 

I think that's what many of us do although I confess to not having bothered loading POIs but we often stop when passing rural aires and fill up.

 

In my case though and the one that Joe90/One foot keeps banging on about I was on an aire just two miles from Cologne city centre. For reasons I won't bore you with I'd taken the 'van to a large trade fair to which I'd normally fly.

 

This aire, which cost about €10 a night had about sixty or seventy places and one borne. I had no choice when it came to filling up. One morning I really needed water and, as I said, it took nearly half an hour to get it. I mentioned this as one genuine disadvantage of an aire, but for some reason this has upset him and he's never stopped going on and on about me 'moaning' about it. I've asked him what he would have done but I'm not expecting a sensible answer.

 

On another point, I've a Garmin sat-nav. Where can I get a file of aires POIs please?

 

 

 

[Curtisden]

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 6:43 PM

 

Curtisden - 2015-01-20 5:51 PM

 

 

Not wishing to get involved in this name calling scrap but as being the OP of this subject may I offer my 5 pennyworth?

I use Aires but I also use wild camp sites in rural areas. Municipals now and again but rarely large sites. Reason has nothing to do with cost but getting away from my fellow campers.

I visit many remote locations in Europe following my interests with the Great War and tracing SOE sites and find wild camping suites my needs fine in these locations

Re water and dumping grey water the answer is simple.

On my TomTom I have all aires listed as POI and have them set up to warm me if we pass within 2 miles of my route, That way I can fill up and dump on mainly deserted Aires during the day on our travels when the bell sounds.

 

 

I think that's what many of us do although I confess to not having bothered loading POIs but we often stop when passing rural aires and fill up.

 

In my case though and the one that Joe90/One foot keeps banging on about I was on an aire just two miles from Cologne city centre. For reasons I won't bore you with I'd taken the 'van to a large trade fair to which I'd normally fly.

 

This aire, which cost about €10 a night had about sixty or seventy places and one borne. I had no choice when it came to filling up. One morning I really needed water and, as I said, it took nearly half an hour to get it. I mentioned this as one genuine disadvantage of an aire, but for some reason this has upset him and he's never stopped going on and on about me 'moaning' about it. I've asked him what he would have done but I'm not expecting a sensible answer.

 

On another point, I've a Garmin sat-nav. Where can I get a file of aires POIs please?

 

 

 

http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/

 

http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/

[Guest Joe90]

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 3:08 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 1:25 PM

 

Intelligent people probably wouldn't moan on a forum about having to wait to get water either.....

 

probably can't work it out that instead of moaning they could just as easily get supplies elsewhere if it was such a hassle to wait a few minutes.

 

I hope that helps for your next trip ;-)

 

Perhaps you could tell me where I could get water in the city of Cologne? As you well know, I wasn't moaning, simply highlighting a big problem with aires, which is that they often have only one water point and, if you're in a hurry to leave, and there are three 'vans queuing up you're in trouble. I wasn't in a big hurry fortunately as I had to wait nearly half an hour before I could fill up.

 

On a site I top up regularly from taps that are never more than a few yards away.

 

But I ask you again, you're on an aire in Cologne, there's a big queue for the only borne and you need to move but you also need water. Where would you get it? I'm sure you'll have another smart-alec response which will mean absolutely nothing, as usual when you're found out. One thing I know you won't supply is an intelligent answer.

 

It really is time that you grew up and acknowledged that aires aren't perfect and have some drawbacks, water supply being one. A regular sight on aires is a queue of 'vans at the borne, sometimes for a long time. You know it, I know it and so does any other person who uses busy aires.

 

 

Aires are far from perfect, that's why I use municipals or commercial sites as well, did I ever say they were perfect ? ;-)

 

Some tips that you may find useful, always keep an eye on your water levels, don't let them get down to the last mug full as you obviously did, I normally I fill on arrival when you should have all the time in the world to wait, not that I ever have ever come across long lines waiting,

 

but just in case you think that many be the case DON'T wait until morning when most folk are departing as you did, but if your really stuck Lidl or similar have gallons of the stuff for peanuts, hope those tips are useful answers for you. ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

dora_ex - 2015-01-20 2:56 PM

 

With the ever increasing number of aires maybe the time is getting closer for a Sat Nav version (is that called a POI download?).

 

Our current Snooper has a Camperstop facility and does pick up many, many of the aires, shows photos, gives details etc. Not sure its as complete as the VB All the Aires but it covers most countries in Europe.

 

Rather than books we would happily buy a download version if it were available. Sure some would rather the books but it could be a move with the time to offer both?

If you want to take full advaitage of the thousands of POIs for aires, campsites, supermarkets or w.h.y. that are freely available via the net, I'd suggest moving away from Snooper when you next renew your sat-nav. For most other makes, POIs can be downloaded to the device at will, and edited, created, or deleted as you choose. Nothing against Snooper, but they have a somewhat "closed" system that does not facilitate what you seem to want.

[Guest Had Enough]

Curtisden - 2015-01-20 6:49 PM

 

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 6:43 PM

 

Curtisden - 2015-01-20 5:51 PM

 

 

Not wishing to get involved in this name calling scrap but as being the OP of this subject may I offer my 5 pennyworth?

I use Aires but I also use wild camp sites in rural areas. Municipals now and again but rarely large sites. Reason has nothing to do with cost but getting away from my fellow campers.

I visit many remote locations in Europe following my interests with the Great War and tracing SOE sites and find wild camping suites my needs fine in these locations

Re water and dumping grey water the answer is simple.

On my TomTom I have all aires listed as POI and have them set up to warm me if we pass within 2 miles of my route, That way I can fill up and dump on mainly deserted Aires during the day on our travels when the bell sounds.

 

 

I think that's what many of us do although I confess to not having bothered loading POIs but we often stop when passing rural aires and fill up.

 

In my case though and the one that Joe90/One foot keeps banging on about I was on an aire just two miles from Cologne city centre. For reasons I won't bore you with I'd taken the 'van to a large trade fair to which I'd normally fly.

 

This aire, which cost about €10 a night had about sixty or seventy places and one borne. I had no choice when it came to filling up. One morning I really needed water and, as I said, it took nearly half an hour to get it. I mentioned this as one genuine disadvantage of an aire, but for some reason this has upset him and he's never stopped going on and on about me 'moaning' about it. I've asked him what he would have done but I'm not expecting a sensible answer.

 

On another point, I've a Garmin sat-nav. Where can I get a file of aires POIs please?

 

 

 

http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/

 

http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/

 

Thanks very much.

[Guest Joe90]

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 6:43 PM

 

Curtisden - 2015-01-20 5:51 PM

 

 

Not wishing to get involved in this name calling scrap but as being the OP of this subject may I offer my 5 pennyworth?

I use Aires but I also use wild camp sites in rural areas. Municipals now and again but rarely large sites. Reason has nothing to do with cost but getting away from my fellow campers.

I visit many remote locations in Europe following my interests with the Great War and tracing SOE sites and find wild camping suites my needs fine in these locations

Re water and dumping grey water the answer is simple.

On my TomTom I have all aires listed as POI and have them set up to warm me if we pass within 2 miles of my route, That way I can fill up and dump on mainly deserted Aires during the day on our travels when the bell sounds.

 

 

I think that's what many of us do although I confess to not having bothered loading POIs but we often stop when passing rural aires and fill up.

 

In my case though and the one that Joe90/One foot keeps banging on about I was on an aire just two miles from Cologne city centre. For reasons I won't bore you with I'd taken the 'van to a large trade fair to which I'd normally fly.

 

This aire, which cost about €10 a night had about sixty or seventy places and one borne. I had no choice when it came to filling up. One morning I really needed water and, as I said, it took nearly half an hour to get it. I mentioned this as one genuine disadvantage of an aire, but for some reason this has upset him and he's never stopped going on and on about me 'moaning' about it. I've asked him what he would have done but I'm not expecting a sensible answer.

 

On another point, I've a Garmin sat-nav. Where can I get a file of aires POIs please?

 

 

 

Here's what I would have done.

 

Aires are far from perfect, that's why I use municipals or commercial sites as well, did I ever say they were perfect ?

 

Some tips that you may find useful, always keep an eye on your water levels, don't let them get down to the last mug full as you obviously did, I always aim to have a minimum quarter of a tank, then I normally I fill on arrival when you should have all the time in the world to wait, not that I ever have ever come across long lines waiting,

 

but just in case you think that many be the case DON'T wait until morning when most folk are departing as you did, but if your really stuck Lidl or similar have gallons of the stuff for peanuts, hope those tips are useful and sensible answers for you.

[Guest Had Enough]

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 7:12 PM

 

Aires are far from perfect, that's why I use municipals or commercial sites as well, did I ever say they were perfect ? ;-)

 

But a couple of tips that you may find useful, always keep an eye on your water levels, don't let them get down to the last mug full as you obviously did, I normally I fill on arrival when you should have all the time in the world to wait, not that I ever have ever come across long lines waiting,

 

but just in case you think that many be the case DON'T wait until morning when most folk are departing as you did, but if your really stuck Lidl or similar have gallons of the stuff for peanuts, hope those tips are useful to you. ;-)

 

You really are dumb sometimes aren't you? I've tried to explain it to you before and I'll do it again as simply as I can.

 

I did fill on arrival. It was very late at night and I didn't have to wait.

 

I was on the aire for five days attending a trade fair.

 

I had to be suited up during the day and and at night when we went for dinner with suppliers.

 

Consequently I like to shower regularly.

 

Driving to Aldi to buy a few massive bottles of water would take longer.

 

I had no choice to but to use the borne. The borne was frequently busy because of the aire residents and it was also used by passing 'vans. Anyone who knows this aire will also know that the borne isn't on the aire but on a car park adjacent to the main road and is popular with passing motorhomers.

 

Next time I'll use a proper site and not have this hassle. I hope that you can take it all in this time, although I won't hold my breath as I know that you love stringing things out as long as possible by asking stupid questions.

[Guest Joe90]

So in short you were there for five days, filled up on day one, but only attempted to fill up again when completely empty. :D

 

sorry but if that's not dumb I don't know what is. :D

 

I'm logging off now, thanks for the laugh. ;-)

[dora_ex]

Brian Kirby - 2015-01-20 7:13 PM

 

dora_ex - 2015-01-20 2:56 PM

 

With the ever increasing number of aires maybe the time is getting closer for a Sat Nav version (is that called a POI download?).

 

Our current Snooper has a Camperstop facility and does pick up many, many of the aires, shows photos, gives details etc. Not sure its as complete as the VB All the Aires but it covers most countries in Europe.

 

Rather than books we would happily buy a download version if it were available. Sure some would rather the books but it could be a move with the time to offer both?

If you want to take full advaitage of the thousands of POIs for aires, campsites, supermarkets or w.h.y. that are freely available via the net, I'd suggest moving away from Snooper when you next renew your sat-nav. For most other makes, POIs can be downloaded to the device at will, and edited, created, or deleted as you choose. Nothing against Snooper, but they have a somewhat "closed" system that does not facilitate what you seem to want.

 

 

So is All the Aires available as a download for other Sat Navs? this would certainly make us think on which Sat Nav to buy when we next renew

 

[Curtisden]

dora_ex - 2015-01-20 7:55 PM

 

So is All the Aires available as a download for other Sat Navs? this would certainly make us think on which Sat Nav to buy when we next renew

 

All the aires is not available as a POI download.

That would be giving away the crown jewels.

[Solomongrundy]

Let's see, it's one day after Bastille Day in France 2014, and we approach the Aire.

 

“What's that? It's in 'All the Aires' you say? It's a free Aire is it? And the hook-up is free as well? And the water free? And the parking bays are marked out for different lengths of Motorhome? Shall we have a barbecue because those French Motorhome owners are, aren't they? And there's the Chateau over the road to see and walk in the grounds, isn't there? Was that a SuperU just down the road? Should be okay for baguettes and croissants in the morning, shouldn't we? And plenty of spaces for us to choose. Waste water and cassette emptying facilities are over there, aren't they? I'll put out the table and chairs on the grass and we can have a glass or two of the red stuff if you like in the late evening sun.”

 

“Bl**dy good job there's no more unintelligent Brits on site, they're probably on that expensive overcrowded camp site we passed a couple of miles back, so let's make the best of a bad job and have a quiet restful sleep overnight on this Aire”

 

“What's that? Yes, funny you should remember that Aire yesterday, I know it was a car park, but with the Band playing, family entertainment and games to watch and the free drinks and food the French locals were handing out helped to dull the pain, didn't it? Yes, it was lovely little village to walk around and the chat we had with that Dutch family, and the French couple, were very enlightening I thought. Still only another 27 days to go and we have to head back to Blighty, Yes, I will have another glass, thanks for asking.”

 

“Pass me the Aires book when you've finished reading it will you, please”

 

“Nice wine!”

 

The less who like Aires - the more room on them for the rest of us!

 

[Curtisden]

Solomongrundy - 2015-01-20 8:05 PM

 

Let's see, it's one day after Bastille Day in France 2014, and we approach the Aire.

 

“What's that? It's in 'All the Aires' you say? It's a free Aire is it? And the hook-up is free as well? And the water free? And the parking bays are marked out for different lengths of Motorhome? Shall we have a barbecue because those French Motorhome owners are, aren't they? And there's the Chateau over the road to see and walk in the grounds, isn't there? Was that a SuperU just down the road? Should be okay for baguettes and croissants in the morning, shouldn't we? And plenty of spaces for us to choose. Waste water and cassette emptying facilities are over there, aren't they? I'll put out the table and chairs on the grass and we can have a glass or two of the red stuff if you like in the late evening sun.”

 

“Bl**dy good job there's no more unintelligent Brits on site, they're probably on that expensive overcrowded camp site we passed a couple of miles back, so let's make the best of a bad job and have a quiet restful sleep overnight on this Aire”

 

“What's that? Yes, funny you should remember that Aire yesterday, I know it was a car park, but with the Band playing, family entertainment and games to watch and the free drinks and food the French locals were handing out helped to dull the pain, didn't it? Yes, it was lovely little village to walk around and the chat we had with that Dutch family, and the French couple, were very enlightening I thought. Still only another 27 days to go and we have to head back to Blighty, Yes, I will have another glass, thanks for asking.”

 

“Pass me the Aires book when you've finished reading it will you, please”

 

“Nice wine!”

 

The less who like Aires - the more room on them for the rest of us!

 

I agree some are but a some are not as well.

Its a question of horses for courses.

But in passing its against the law that controls Aires in France either to get chairs out let alone a BBQ.

Aires are parking sites and not camp sites. Hence the local By laws that are in place to make the difference.

Hence you don't see caravans or tents on aires, unless you know better?

 

BBQ's now there is a odd thing. Rarely seem the french using them only brits and the odd dutch campers.

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 7:36 PM

 

So in short you were there for five days, filled up on day one, but only attempted to fill up again when completely empty. :D

 

sorry but if that's not dumb I don't know what is. :D

 

I'm logging off now, thanks for the laugh. ;-)

 

Where did I say I was completely empty, and what difference would it have made if I was half full? I'd still have had to wait half an hour for the borne.

 

Are you OK? You're not taking things in these days. I really don't understand your logic here, does anyone else?

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Solomongrundy - 2015-01-20 8:05 PM

 

Let's see, it's one day after Bastille Day in France 2014, and we approach the Aire.

 

“What's that? It's in 'All the Aires' you say? It's a free Aire is it? And the hook-up is free as well? And the water free? And the parking bays are marked out for different lengths of Motorhome? Shall we have a barbecue because those French Motorhome owners are, aren't they? And there's the Chateau over the road to see and walk in the grounds, isn't there? Was that a SuperU just down the road? Should be okay for baguettes and croissants in the morning, shouldn't we? And plenty of spaces for us to choose. Waste water and cassette emptying facilities are over there, aren't they? I'll put out the table and chairs on the grass and we can have a glass or two of the red stuff if you like in the late evening sun.”

 

“Bl**dy good job there's no more unintelligent Brits on site, they're probably on that expensive overcrowded camp site we passed a couple of miles back, so let's make the best of a bad job and have a quiet restful sleep overnight on this Aire”

 

“What's that? Yes, funny you should remember that Aire yesterday, I know it was a car park, but with the Band playing, family entertainment and games to watch and the free drinks and food the French locals were handing out helped to dull the pain, didn't it? Yes, it was lovely little village to walk around and the chat we had with that Dutch family, and the French couple, were very enlightening I thought. Still only another 27 days to go and we have to head back to Blighty, Yes, I will have another glass, thanks for asking.”

 

“Pass me the Aires book when you've finished reading it will you, please”

 

“Nice wine!”

 

The less who like Aires - the more room on them for the rest of us!

 

Yes, they're all like that aren't they? I bet the locals came out and gave you free croissants and played the piano accordion whilst you admired the string of onions around their necks.

 

I like the one at St. Jean de Luz, in between two busy roads, or the one we looked at at Aix le Bains last year before driving swiftly off so as to avoid the scrap yard in front of it.

 

I must admit though, that one thing I miss on the uncrowded municipal campsites that we like is leaning out of our window and chatting to the next 'van that's close enough for us to shake hands with the guy.

 

I really miss that. ;-)

[Guest Joe90]

Had Enough - 2015-01-20 8:20 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-01-20 7:36 PM

 

So in short you were there for five days, filled up on day one, but only attempted to fill up again when completely empty. :D

 

sorry but if that's not dumb I don't know what is. :D

 

I'm logging off now, thanks for the laugh. ;-)

 

Where did I say I was completely empty, and what difference would it have made if I was half full? I'd still have had to wait half an hour for the borne.

 

Are you OK? You're not taking things in these days. I really don't understand your logic here, does anyone else?

 

I'm back, so you said further up the thread quote

 

"One morning I really needed water"

 

Your words not mine. I think anyone with a half a brain would concede that sounds as if you REALLY did need water...... :D

 

Oh I forgot that's what you did say. :D

 

Here's that tip again, don't leave it so long next time. ;-)

 

And I really am logging off now for the night, if you want any more tips PM me, I'll check my inbox tomorrow.