AlanMos Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 As you might have seen from another post I am purchasing a Ducato PVC. I have seen other posts about the pros and cons of the Comfort Matic but am still unsure. I will be using it as my daily transport and parking in a designated place on the road outside my house. Therefore, I ask will the C M make the to and fro manoeuvres more complicated/less precise? I have read about some if the system's idiosyncrasies and opinions seem to be mixed. Is the progress through the gears smooth and how does the acceleration compare with a normal manual. Best wishes, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have a 2014 6.36m PVC with the 150 engine and Comfortmatic gearbox and would wholeheartedly recommend it. I have not encountered any problems with slow speed manoeuvres - no jerkiness or unwanted surges. The gearbox performs very well under most circumstances and the changes are very smooth, much smoother than I could manage with a manual. The gearbox will change down automatically if it senses you are going downhill so you get some engine braking. The only slight issue is that the gearbox can be slow to change down when going uphill so you can lose a bit of momentum. This is easily dealt with by using the 'nudge' facility to manually drop a gear before the engine starts to labour - not a problem. If the road is quite hilly or winding I will tend to switch to manual as this provides better control and drive through bends. I would do this on my auto car as well and it does not mean that there is a problem with the Comfortmatic. I quite enjoy using the manual mode actually and the advantage of not having to use a clutch still applies. Overal I find that the Comfortmatic really adds to the pleasure of driving the van as it makes for a much more relaxed drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Read my reply and noticed that I did not mention anything about acceleration. The Comfortmatic is just the manual gearbox with a robotised actuation of the clutch so the acceleration is the same. The only issue is when moving off quickly at a roundabout say as it is a bit slow to change up into second which could leave cause a problem if you are not careful. I don't really have a major issue with this myself as I just pick my gap to suit. I find it helps if you don't absolutely floor it but instead start off a bit more gently, allow the van to get into second then go for it. I have not tried going into manual in this situation to see if this helps but it might. During normal driving the acceleration is great and I can easily keep up with fast flowing traffic. I have only briefly driven a van with the 130 engine but I am sure that the 150 is noticeably more powerful and I have read that the 150 is recommended with the Comfortmatic. Great combination as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Alan This longish recentish forum discussion discussed ComfortMatic http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-comfortmatic/36250/ It used to be possible for anyone to download Ducato Owner Manuals (including a ComfortMatic supplement) from the Fiat Camper website https://www.fiatcamper.com/en/home without actually needing to own a Ducato. Nowadays there appears to be a requirement to provide a valid vehicle VIN-number to access such services. If you’d like the ComfortMatic supplement, I could probably e-mail you a .pdf file (262KB) containing it if you send me a “PM” message with an e-mail address to send it to. I also have a .pdf file containing the latest Ducato X290 Owner Handbook (21.2MB) and I could send that to you as well if you wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-01-21 8:32 AM It used to be possible for anyone to download Ducato Owner Manuals (including a ComfortMatic supplement) from the Fiat Camper website........ As I've posted before, Fiat Manuals and supplements are easily downloadable from here by model type and year (wait for the pop-up window), or by VIN number. (For current and many past models including the Ducato). http://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Home.aspx?brand_code=77&id_language=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The Comfortmatic is a brilliant gearbox. The only negative comments you will hear are most likely to be from those who have not owned one but think they know better than those of us who have driven many thousands of miles in all conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksob Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Alan, I've been driving a 3litre with comfortmatic on a 6.36 pvc max weight 4000kg and in holiday trim about 3700/3800kg for about 18 months. No mechanical/electronic faults at all (fingers crossed!), great in traffic or when all your attention needs to be on the road. For slow speed maneouvers, parking, moving from reverse to first and back etc, you do need to be quite slow and deliberate or you get bings and flashing lights!! Easy to get used to. Good on hill starts etc and would thoroughly recommend it. I previously had a Mercedes with 3 litre and 5 speed true auto, with Fiat much better fuel consumption and quieter but less smooth changes and obviously no creeping. Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Robinhood - 2015-01-21 8:54 AM Derek Uzzell - 2015-01-21 8:32 AM It used to be possible for anyone to download Ducato Owner Manuals (including a ComfortMatic supplement) from the Fiat Camper website........ As I've posted before, Fiat Manuals and supplements are easily downloadable from here by model type and year (wait for the pop-up window), or by VIN number. (For current and many past models including the Ducato). http://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Home.aspx?brand_code=77&id_language=2 Excellent - though I don’t think that’s where I got my Ducato documentation from originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-01-21 9:15 AM The Comfortmatic is a brilliant gearbox. The only negative comments you will hear are most likely to be from those who have not owned one but think they know better than those of us who have driven many thousands of miles in all conditions. Totally agree, I'm on my second Comfortmatic. Those owners who have never had one don't know what they're missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Our last van was a manual this one is a Comformatic, I would never go back to a manual the Comformatic is a brilliant box. The only quirk is the slow change from 1st to 2nd if you floor it, easily overcome by pulling away slower until it's changed to second then you can floor it, or flip it into manual mode. No problems at all with slow maneuvering, I reverse up to within a couple of inches of my garage gutter without difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you think it might be a little slow from 1st to 2nd when flooring the accelerator the brain box will sense it and will be protecting the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Absolutely right. When it comes to moving away quickly; less is definitely more! The slow change from 1st to 2nd can be avoided if you are not flooring the accelerator. Take your foot off the gas a s you would in a manual as you feel it begin to change. The moment you feel it has gone into 2nd you can gun it! This sounds complicated but it becomes second nature very quickly unless you only drive a conventional auto at other times then you will find it a bit strange. The only other time you can catch the box napping is when you approach a junction slowly and don't stop completely. If you decide to move away smart-ish it might well still be in 2nd and decide you need 1st which will involve a delay and a bit of a thump when 1st engages with you having the throttle wide open. You learn to not do that as well! Otherwise; lovely, lovely gearbox and makes the 3.0 engine a wonderful drive indeed. A 2.3 with 150hp should also be a great match. There is no better drive-train available today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have mixed feelings on the Comfort-Matic in that whilst I wholeheartedly agree it is a great combination, I'm not sure whether I'd pay the extra for it - it came with my van. It will make manoeuvres more complicated because you have to go through a set procedure when using the box. Get it wrong, and you set the buzzer off and the van won't move until you do go through the right procedure. In the first week I had it, I had to go through a campsite barrier to come out of the site. Got out of the van, scanned the pass, put the pass in the return box, got back into the van, fired up, found the first auto gear and saw the barrier come down. Went to the wardens who watched me get into the van, then they raised the barrier, by the time I was in auto gear, the barrier was down again. Third time was lucky. You will learn the procedure much quicker than I did - I still get it wrong occasionally through not paying attention. You can easily switch into manual and that might suit you better when parking. However, despite the problems I've had, and they are caused by me not the box, I still use the Comfort-matic for manoeuvres because it does give precise control and it is very easy to creep. On the open road and in traffic, the box works well. On winding roads that go up and down dale, such as the Pennines, it can get caught out and you end up in the wrong gear. However, switch it to manual and everything is OK. The slow first to second gear makes for an interesting entry into fast traffic from a standing start. However, in most cases, you can look ahead and stay in second or higher gear to make joining fast traffic easy. I feel the gear changes, my passengers do not. There is an 'Up' button to help the van go up and down steep hills. Useful. If you have the money available, go for it. You can always use it in manual for the trickier bits. Manual is engaged simply by sliding the gear lever across. In manual, you then use it like a sequential gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Day Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Fantastic Box but good luck with the instruction manual, doesn't seem to bear any relationship with what you actually have to do 8-) (and I do have one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think the best advice is to first dispel any idea that it is an automatic. IMO, it is not. As said above, it is a robotised manual gearbox with a conventional clutch. When the going is easy the box works, and changes, perfectly well. What the going gets tougher, particularly on steep, winding, uphill roads, it gets its knickers in a twist, and wrong slots continually unless you take over. The delay in changing from 1st to 2nd has been mentioned. Ours (150) has improved after nearly 11,000 miles, so part of the problem seems to have been initial tightness and no "running in" program in the software, but although all other changes are quick and slick, there is still a puzzling lag from 1 to 2. My take on it is that it is a clutch-pedal-less transmission with an automatic option. Sometimes it makes me smile, sometimes it makes me roar. On balance, I'd say that unless you have trouble with your left leg, or just find clutch control difficult, the benefit over a manual is marginal overall and, IMO, not worth the extra cost. There are other things to spent £1,600 odd on, that would bring me greater pleasure. So, slightly impressed, but not convinced! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The Comfortmatic system is excellent unless you are stuck on a muddy field. The ability to rock the van backwards and forwards does not exist. That is the only 'fault' with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 In that case you could put it in manual mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 peter - 2015-01-23 8:22 PM In that case you could put it in manual mode. Nope, won't help much, if you are in reverse you can not select first without putting it into neural with your foot on the brake then it will allow you to put it into first, do it too quickly it beeps at you and you have to start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-01-21 7:40 PM On balance, I'd say that unless you have trouble with your left leg, or just find clutch control difficult, the benefit over a manual is marginal overall and, IMO, not worth the extra cost. There are other things to spent £1,600 odd on, that would bring me greater pleasure. So, slightly impressed, but not convinced! :-) Nar can't agree on that one, as a percentage of the price of a van the price is negligible, it just makes driving much more pleasant and in manual mode the changes are just so slick worth the money just for that. I've never been a fan of the manuals with there cable operated selectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The following link is to a USA 2013 thread that reviews a European-spec Ducato with 3.0litre motor and ComfortMatic gearbox http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/review-2013-fiat-ducato-cargo-van-video/ The large gap between 1st and 2nd gear-ratios is highlighted and would explain why ‘automatic’ shifts from 1st to 2nd can be slow. It’s not a matter of protecting the gearbox - it just takes more time to match engine revs when the ratio difference is wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Very many thanks for all the excellent information and advice. Unfortunately, I'm still undecided. As I parallel park on the street I'm most concerned about manoeuvring for that when space is tight. For info; I have a Westfalia Nugget and I'm buying a Hymercar Sydney - must be mad but they are different and should suit needs. Best wishes, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 There is no problem at all manoeuvring in tight spaces, there is no creep like on a standard auto and you do have to put your foot down to make it move. First time you drive one is seems daunting but in practice the van moves off slowly in a controlled maner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If you are not convinced, don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I agree with Lenny as I have not experienced any problem with slow speed manoeuvres and the van will creep forward under control as you can balance accelerator and brake if necessary. Does anyone out there own a Comfortmatic who thinks differently? Honestly, the Comfortmatic is brilliant and only enhances the overall driving experience. Yes, it has some very minor idiosyncrasies that you get used to but these are absolutely not the issue some people make out. You can't get into any real trouble with it if you know what you are doing. For instance, those who go on about the moving off experience perhaps don't have sufficient understanding of how the mechanics of these things work and/or a lack mechanical sympathy to appreciate what is required. They simply floor it and can't understand why it won't go. A number of us, including myself, have given sound advice on this. I recently owned a large powerful Volvo with FWD and If I floored it from a standing start at a roundabout it would spin the tyres, the traction control would cut in and I would be going nowhere. The solution was the same as for Comfortmatic - ease off a bit, get it into second then let the torque get you going. Same as people out in the snow who floor it and can't understand why it is going nowhere, and this includes some 4x4's I have seen caused by people who fail to understand that choice of tyres is actually more important the number of driven wheels. As far as I am concerned Comfortmatic makes the van more fun to drive - the auto bit takes a load of stress and hassle out of driving 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time I really enjoy the way the manual function works as I get more control when I think I need it and I still don't have to bother with a clutch - win, win all round. Also the changes in auto or manual are far smoother than I could get close to in a full manual, which makes the driving experience smoother and more enjoyable for my wife in the passenger seat. A 3500 kg van is never going to be a race car and the auto really suits the more relaxed motorhome approach. In saying that a Comfortmatic + the 150 engine can really shift when you need it to. Bottom line - do you want a van where you do not want to or cannot use a clutch? If the answer is yes and you can afford it, get one. If the auto function is not really that important to you I.e. You have no problem operating a clutch, even in stop, start traffic then save £1500 and don't get it, simple as that. If you are in any way frightened of an auto, again don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Thanks to you all for the excellent advice which has made the pros and cons clearer. I have now had the opportunity of taking a test drive which, along with the various views on here, has led me to opt for the full manual box. Main reason being that I want to be in full control rather than having to second guess the foibles of the Comfortmatic. Those include the poor take-off between first and second, quite slow kick-down, more complexity in close manoeuvres and parking, relatively slow changes in manual mode, etc. Fortunately, I have no physical reason not to have a clutch and though I have enjoyed driving full autos, with a C6 and latterly 540, I think the Comfortmatic is a compromise that loses features of a manual without all the benefits of a comprehensive auto. I'm sure the Comfortmatic is great for very many but not for me on this concession. Once again, many thanks. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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