Generator/inverter

[RVI46]

Hi, Can anyone advise on these two things which I think I need: 3000 Ti Kipor and a small inverter or a 1000 Ti with a large inverter? I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[olley]

Hi RV146, depends what your needing the power for, a 3000 genny will provide lots of noisy power for as long as you keep filling the tank. An inverter will do the same quietly, but will quickly deplete the battery bank. My 1800 watt inverter draws 150amps approx. on full chat, but used continuiously for lights, telly, boiling a kettle, hairdryer and the like my 600amp battery bank last's about 4-5 days. So it really depends on how much power you need and whether your battery bank can supply it for a usable period. If not it's got to be a genny. Olley

[Guest peter]

3000TI Genny definately, as it is more flexible and will charge your batteries as well running a fan heater on those cold winter nights to heat up van until gas heating is up to speed. I've got one of these and it's brilliant and not too heavy either. Gives out 2600 watts continuously. You can also plug it into your house mains when you get a power cut. Not forgeting to switch off your power from the grid first. For those that are not familiar with doing this you need a 13 Amp plug on the end of the lead from the genny and plug it into one of your wall sockets. Don't try and run anything which needs more power than the genny can continuously put out. I know it should be obvious, but do not start genny before plugging in as the pins will be live and could kill you if you touched them. Sorry about the longwinded reply but just pointing out alternative uses for a genny.

[Clive]

Sorry but PLEASE do not take Peters advice on how to connect a generator to your houses domestic supply in the way he describes. Using a flying lead from the generator with a 13 amp plug on one end and connecting this into the domestic ring main is plain dangerous. It relies on you remembering to disconnect the mains initially and also enables you to have a live plug in your hand. If you want to run your house from a generator in an emergency get a qualified electrician to fit a propper double pole change over switch or contactor properly wired in your fuse cupboard and have a blue 16 amp caravan type connector fitted near to where you might place the generator for the purpose. You might also want to have a pilot indicator to tell you when the mains supply is restored. DONT TAKE RISKS WITH MAINS VOLTAGES. Here endeth the lesson. C.

[spartan3956]

Im sorry Peter but i agree with Clive its a very dangerous thing to do and wouldnt advise anyone to to connect directly to the ring main Ive used a generator when we had frequent power cuts to run a few lights and the TV but it was alway seperate from the mains wiring. Why because Ive had consumer boards still live when they are supposed to be switched off never presume anything with electricity it can KILL! A switch over as Clive states is the safest way. Pete

[RVI46]

Hi, Thanks for your replies but I still need a bit more advice. My wife and I are hoping to do some/lots of wild camping when possible and I need to know exactly what's needed to run a T.V, laptop, toaster and such like. I have an 80 watt solar panel fitted and I believe that only tops up my leisure battery, so do I just buy the generator or just the inverter, or both and if both: big generator with little inverter/ big inverter and little generator. olley, How many batteries make up 600 amp? As you can tell (I'm clueless) Many thanks

[olley]

Hi RV146 it depends on their size, mine are 100amp gels, so I have six of them. but lots of other sizes are available. 80,100,120,200 etc. If you fit more than one, they should be of the same size, and type. Unless you have an RV, (RV146?) weight and storage will be a problem for more than two. At a guess mine weigh at least 40kg each. I also have a genny but the noise and smell puts me off using it unless we need to run the aircon. of EHU. Olley

[RVI46]

Hi olley, No our Motorhome is a Bessacarr 750. My name "RV146" was just something picked at random, maybe I'll let it drop and rejoin with another name as it confuses some. Thanks.

[olley]

Hi RV146, I have a better idea don't change your name, change the motorhome, get an RV. (lol) (lol) To work out power consumption divide the watts by the voltage to give you the amps consumed ie. 20watt 12volt bulb=1.6amps 20watt 240volt bulb .08 amps Its only practical to power 240v appliances for short periods, and then only if you have a large battery bank. If you powered an 800watt 240volt toaster through an inverter then the drain on the 12volt batteries would be at least 66amps, even for short periods ie 5mins this will kill an 85amph battery. An CRT telly will draw depending on size 10-20 amps, an LCD one is much more practical for a motorhome with maybe only a 5 amp current draw. So for a small telly, computor and some lights a couple of batteries will last 2-3 days. for anything else get a genny. By the way solar panels rarely produce on average much more than half their rated output, and then only in direct sunlight. which when screwed to a motorhomes roof, unless you are on the equator is unlikely. Olley

[smifee]

hi RV146 i have 4 125Ah batteries, 2 75W solar panels, a sterling battery to battery charger and a Mobitronic inverter (3Kw peak 2Kw for 30 mins & constant 1.6Kw). it's wired so that when i press a button inside the van all the van mains sockets have 240v. the inverter shuts down when it detects hookup is connected. if your proposed wild camping is 1 or 2 nights & move on then the sterling charger will charge your batteries properly from the alternator. if however you want to stay in one place for days on end then i think you need a generator. i take a small Honda generator but only use it to do the laundry. i use a lot of mains only equipment and haven't run out of power yet. longest spell without starting the engine is 6 days. that was way down south in italy. the sun was shining but the days were short. mike

[RVI46]

Olley, I've only just started motorhoming and the Bessacarr is plenty big enough for me at the moment. I last drove something big, forty four years ago when I was in the army. Mike. Thanks for your input. Cheers.

[Clive]

It is most likely that should you fit the same batteries as Olley your Bessacar will be overloaded and most lockers full before you put one foot in the cab or load your clutter. Yes an inverter ( and solar panel) is an environmentally friendly way of providing some mains power for items that need it. But LCD TVs can frequently run directly from 12 volts or if not a quite small inverter, as can the Laptop computer. If you want toast light the grill! Did I hear Microwave??? What,s the hurry? you are on holiday light the Oven if you need to! Using battery derrived mains to supply heating equipment, even if only a kettle, is a waste of a scarce resource. Heating of all types should come from either your gas or diesel tank, preferably gas as diesel heaters also eat battery amps and like generators make noise. If you (like us) are fair weather campers then our lifestyle IS supported by an 80 watt solar panel. That,s running either the LCD tele or our ham radio gear of an evening plus lights. We survived quite well at York arriving Thursday and leaving Monday with awning lights and others on every evening. Battery capacity 160 AH. (2 X 6 volt 160AH batteries connected in series) Take it easy - but take it! C.

[Guest peter]

[QUOTE]Clive - 2006-10-03 10:55 PM Sorry but PLEASE do not take Peters advice on how to connect a generator to your houses domestic supply in the way he describes. Using a flying lead from the generator with a 13 amp plug on one end and connecting this into the domestic ring main is plain dangerous. It relies on you remembering to disconnect the mains initially and also enables you to have a live plug in your hand. If you want to run your house from a generator in an emergency get a qualified electrician to fit a propper double pole change over switch or contactor properly wired in your fuse cupboard and have a blue 16 amp caravan type connector fitted near to where you might place the generator for the purpose. You might also want to have a pilot indicator to tell you when the mains supply is restored. DONT TAKE RISKS WITH MAINS VOLTAGES. Here endeth the lesson. C. [/QUOTE]I stand thoroughly chastised by Clive. Who's going to pay an electrician hundreds of pounds for something you may never need?. I don't think so. All I was suggesting is something that costs nothing and with common sense is safe. No more tips from me in future. >:-)

[spartan3956]

I have 4 x 85amp batteries connected to a 1600watt inverter i have carried a small 650w Honda generator but seldom use it unless i am away without moving or hook-up for 5 days. Althougth i only use the inverter to power a vacum cleaner 400 watt the sky box phone charger and a 14" 230volt TV. One thing i will say that some inverters are not pure or modified sine wave and TV`s dont fair well when powered by them suffering lines on the screen. All other large power drain items are left at home plus refillable gas bottles are cheaper to fill. Pete

[Clive]

Hi Peter, I was not trying to chastise anybody and apologise if I offended you. I am aware of the method you posted has been used by others. This does not mean it,s OK though. If someone got hurt or even killed because they were not carefull enough then someone would be looking for compensation. Where would they look perhaps? this forum and this thread. In todays climate one has to be so carefull to ensure that any advice given is both technically and legally sound. My words were as much as to protect you as anything else. Best regards Clive

[V6Jim]

[QUOTE]RVI46 - 2006-10-04 1:36 PM Hi, Thanks for your replies but I still need a bit more advice. My wife and I are hoping to do some/lots of wild camping when possible and I need to know exactly what's needed to run a T.V, laptop, toaster and such like. I have an 80 watt solar panel fitted and I believe that only tops up my leisure battery, so do I just buy the generator or just the inverter, or both and if both: big generator with little inverter/ big inverter and little generator. olley, How many batteries make up 600 amp? As you can tell (I'm clueless) Many thanks[/QUOTE] Lots of good (and bad) advice on this thread! Firstly you'll have to ascertain what mAh your leisure battery is. Most likely just 85 - 100mAh. This info will be found on the battery itself. Do you know where it is? Mine is under the drivers seat. (Bessacarr E435) If you have just one leisure battery of approximately 100mAh then a generator is the way to go. It needn't be huge, but if you can afford a digital one with a 'pure' output then all the better. (£500!) The ordinary cheap ones (like mine for £60!) tend to give a bit of a messy output which can cause some problems with the TV's picture quality. Still quite watchable though.... Inverters are tricky things that can be made to work, but are quite difficult to install properly...especially the bigger (750w+) ones. They should not really be used for powering anything that involves heating elements unless you are equipped with a small power stations worth of leisure batteries! That includes microwaves! By all means use a small inverter as long as it's only for powering small things of up to 300w. Much more than this and you'll kill your leisure battery very quickly. So, a combination of a small digital Gennie and a small 300 - 400w inverter should see you OK. Jimmy

[RVI46]

Hi Jimmy, Your advice is just what I was looking for. Many thanks.

[Dave Newell]

Sorry to be picky but you need to watch your units there Jimmy. Leisure batteries are rated in AH not mah. mah is milliampere hours and is a unit used to measure the capacity of small batteries, AA, AAA, PP3 etc. A 100mah battery will provide 100 thousandths (or one tenth) of an Ampere for one hour (in theory) which won't be much use in a motorhome. Leisure batteries are rated in AH which is Ampere Hours, a 100AH rated battery will provide 1 Ampere for 100 hours or 10 Amperes for 10 Hours etc. (in theory). Otherwise your advice is ok. D.

[Guest peter]

Glad you cleared that up Dave. I was going to buy an extra 100Mah leisure battery. :D (lol)

[Clive]

100 mAh - One advantage though is that you could carry it in your shirt pocket!!

[V6Jim]

[QUOTE]Dave Newell - 2006-10-05 7:52 PM Sorry to be picky but you need to watch your units there Jimmy. Leisure batteries are rated in AH not mah. mah is milliampere hours and is a unit used to measure the capacity of small batteries, AA, AAA, PP3 etc. A 100mah battery will provide 100 thousandths (or one tenth) of an Ampere for one hour (in theory) which won't be much use in a motorhome. Leisure batteries are rated in AH which is Ampere Hours, a 100AH rated battery will provide 1 Ampere for 100 hours or 10 Amperes for 10 Hours etc. (in theory). Otherwise your advice is ok. D.[/QUOTE] Well noticed! Just testing..... Actually that mistake comes about after years of racing model cars and being heavily involved in the intricacies of charging NiCad batteries! Sorry....feel like a right twit now! Jimmy

[derek500]

We're getting ready for our two month trip to the UK in July. We've got two 100ah leisure batteries and a 300w invertor. We will be using aires in France and CLs in the UK. Our budget doesn't stretch to using campsites. My wife and daughter are worried about the lack of power for using hairdryer and straighteners. Although the straighteners run at less than 170w, when they are switched on there is a surge of 700w, that in the past has caused the fuse in our MH to blow. We have a hair dryer that runs at 670w but the split second it turns on it surges at 973w. It seems that a generator is the only answer and, will soon pay for itself in the savings of upgrading to a campsite with facilities. I can get hold of a 700w (800w maximum) for 68 Euros and was wondering what would happen when I plug in the hairdryer when it surges? I understand about the noise etc. but it's only going to be used for max 15 minutes every three days or so.

[Clive]

It sounds to me like something like an 1800 watt inverter will do your peak loads with a big margin and simply coast along once the ladies equipment is up to temperature. I picked this figure simply because MMM Road test editor Dave Hurrell has one and Suzanne uses it to run both the hair dryer and the Tesco toaster. As these are only short time heavy loads they are able to maintain the 2 X 110 ampere hour batteries with an 80 watt solar panel in the summer. I would emplore anybody considering a generator to think again. Its an emotive subject and I plead that if you have one park at least half a mile away from me. Hear endeth the lesson.

[derek500]

I understand what you're saying Clive, but it's not as though I will be running it all day for air-con or whatever. BTW I was just reading on the pay forum (thread 'quasi or true sine?') where someone is saying it's not a good idea to run a 700w toaster from an inverter unless you have a huge bank of batteries. The poster is quoting 'Peukert's Formula'.

[Guest peter]

Just get a 3000TI and keep well away from Clive. The only people who moan about Gennies are the ones who either camp only in Summer, don't have one, or only stay on commercial sites. If you really want to be independant it is a must have. As even if you do have Solar panels, the Sun can be very elusive on occasions. Probably when you batteries are getting really low.