Generator/inverter

[Clive]

I did have a generator - honest! Used it once in the New forest to prove it worked, carried it around for 2 years then sold it. Nice compact 4 stroke YANMAR. The 80 watt solar panel keeps us totally independant in UK summer. Peterborough last week for example the batteries were up to full voltage and the regulator cutting back the charge rate by midday most days. That,s inside lights, pumps, water heater TV, Laptop etc. No toaster as inverter is 800 watt and it makes more sence to pop the slices under the grill. Carver heater takes zero amps and fridge is gas. On the other hand if you have a Eberspatcher diesel heater, compressor fridge you are already on a hiding to nothing without a generator or hookup, but is that camping?. Over

[derek500]

I've bought a Launtop LT 950 DC (67.50Euros, £47 on E-bay) The noise level is 57db at 7m, which compares favourably with the most talked about Honda 10i which is 52db at 7m. I used some software called Baygenie that puts your bid in three seconds before the end of the auction. Saved staying up 'til 3 in the morning!!

[derek500]

[QUOTE]peter - 2007-05-03 11:33 PM Just get a 3000TI and keep well away from Clive. [/QUOTE] £549 new, although a one year old Kipor 3000ti sold on Ebay for £410. Still out of my budget.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]derek500 - 2007-05-04 9:27 AM I've bought a Launtop LT 950 DC (67.50Euros, £47 on E-bay) The noise level is 57db at 7m, which compares favourably with the most talked about Honda 10i which is 52db at 7m. I used some software called Baygenie that puts your bid in three seconds before the end of the auction. Saved staying up 'til 3 in the morning!![/QUOTE]

Not so!  The Db scale is logarithmic, every 5Db is a doubling of sound pressure.  Your Launtop is TWICE as noisy as the Honda!!  Back to E-Bay with that one then.  What's in a number, eh?

Re Peter's contribution; paints a nice picture of your out of season welcome on an aire, doesn't it?  The beauty of inverters is that they are virtually inaudible inside, give or take the odd cooling fan, let alone outside.  Me: I don't want to sit around inside the van with the windows closed just because some inconsidearte s*d is audibly running a genny!  And I don't care how far away he/she is. 

I just don't want to hear it, period.  I like to be able to hear the sparrows fart, and say pardon!

[derek500]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2007-05-04 11:40 AM

[QUOTE]derek500 - 2007-05-04 9:27 AM I've bought a Launtop LT 950 DC (67.50Euros, £47 on E-bay) The noise level is 57db at 7m, which compares favourably with the most talked about Honda 10i which is 52db at 7m. I used some software called Baygenie that puts your bid in three seconds before the end of the auction. Saved staying up 'til 3 in the morning!![/QUOTE]

Not so!  The Db scale is logarithmic, every 5Db is a doubling of sound pressure.  Your Launtop is TWICE as noisy as the Honda!!  Back to E-Bay with that one then.  What's in a number, eh?

Re Peter's contribution, paints a nice picture of your out of season welcome on an aire, doesn't it?  Me: I like to be able to hear the sparrows fart, and say pardon!

[/QUOTE] That means the 95db one that I was looking at in our local DIY shop must be LOUD!! I've sourced this from Google, it seems that 60dbs is normal talking. Don't forget it's only for a 15 minute hair drying session every three days!! Source of sound Sound level in decibels Threshold of sound 0 Whispering 20 Background noise at home 40 Normal talking 60 Noise pollution level 90 Pneumatic drill - 5 metres away 100 At a disco - 1 m from a loudspeaker 120 Threshold of pain 140

[Brian Kirby]

The sound level normally accepted as reasonable for background noise in office buildings, that is to say the noise from a building and its systems alone, without noise intrusion from outside or occupancy noise, is 35DbA.  Any more, and normal conversations, meetings, etc, tend to become disrupted.  Once all other noises cease, 35Db is quite clearly audible, and most people wouldn't choose to try sleeping with that level of noise.  Unless at work, that is!

Don't know where the 95Db figure came from, but you are right, it would be very loud indeed.  Remember, the scale is a log scale and the sound pressure doubles for every 5Db.  The raw numbers are very misleading, and it is essential to know the spectrum that has been used.  The normal scale is the DbA scale, which attempts to approximate to the sensitivity of the human ear, as perceived by Mr/Mrs average.

However, and notwithstanding all that, on a sunny afternoon, with birdsong filling the air, one lousy generator running for an hour can be totally ruinous for someone else's quiet enjoyment.  On that, I'm afraid, I'm implacable.

[Clive]

Er I think a doubling of anything in decibels is 6 or 3 depending on the base.

[derek500]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2007-05-04 1:02 PM Don't know where the 95Db figure came from, but you are right, it would be very loud indeed. 

However, and notwithstanding all that, on a sunny afternoon, with birdsong filling the air, one lousy generator running for an hour can be totally ruinous for someone else's quiet enjoyment.  On that, I'm afraid, I'm implacable.

[/QUOTE] I was trimming the hedge with my Black & Decker hedge trimmers. They have 90db on the spec label. They are not, in my opinion, excessively loud. I don't intend to have the generator running for an hour in the afternoon!! Maybe 15 minutes or so every third morning for a hair dryer. Mind you, we've booked to stay in several CL/CS sites on our two month trip to the UK and they're all part of farms, so there may be a bit of noise from the owners' farm machinery.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Clive - 2007-05-04 6:53 PM Er I think a doubling of anything in decibels is 6 or 3 depending on the base.[/QUOTE]

Ok Guv, but it's still twice as noisy as the Honda!

[twooks]

seems like a lot of hassle for 15 minutes every 3rd day, I thought [wild] camping was about getting away from it all - not taking everything with you. Much rather hear the sparrows even the pigeons - farting for that 15 minutes. B-)

[Clive]

The problem with decibels is that its only a comparison scale, not a definate level of anything, so just quoting decibels by itself is actually not meaningfull. For example in electrical power terms the units are decibel watts or dbw. zero dbw=1 watt, 3 dbw=2 watts, 6dbw=4 watts, 9dbw=8 watts, 12 dbw=16 watts, 15dbw=32 watts, 18dbw=64 watts 21dbw=128 watts, 24dbw=256 watts, 27dbw=512 watts. Into this you will also see that 10dbw drops in quite nicely at 10 watts and 26dbw at 400 watts. Sound follows similar rules once you have stated the starting point for the zero db figure. Hope that helps.

[livewire]

The problem with generators is the mentality and ignorance of the average user. I was at a site with no hook ups for a few days last summer. Beautiful day to sit outside and enjoy the tranquility. Instead I had to put up with noise and fumes of so called 'super silent' honda generators running in an adjacent group of large new coachbuilts, owned by the kind of people who have to stuff them full of gadgets. I chatted to them about why they were necessary: To watch the cricket on satelite tv Boil electric kettle Charge the mobile phone etc All of this was totally uneccessary if you organise yourself properly. What is wrong with using the gas hob for a kettle? None of them were there for more than a few days. It was the people in the adjacent tents who i felt most for, they cannot escape the noise or fumes.

[derek500]

[QUOTE]twooks - 2007-05-04 10:38 PM seems like a lot of hassle for 15 minutes every 3rd day, I thought [wild] camping was about getting away from it all - not taking everything with you. Much rather hear the sparrows even the pigeons - farting for that 15 minutes. B-)[/QUOTE] Our reason for coming to the UK for two months is because our daughter is playing in three national/international golf tournaments, not to get away from it all. This was one of the main reasons we bought a motorhome. We will be staying at CL/CS for reasons of economy. There is no way we could afford to drive, stay at hotels and eat out for that period of time. My wife and daughter, understandably want to wash and dry their hair every few days. Unfortunately, none of the CL/CS within a short driving distance of the golf courses we are going to have UHUs, so a generator seems to be the most cost effective way of meeting our needs.

[Randonneur]

We used a generator occasionally whilst caravanning but only when we went on a Rally and then we made sure that we put the longest lead on and put it far away from anyone who could hear, usually in a hedge, we had no complaints from anyone. As far as using hair equipment, I use a Braun gas curling brush that has gas cartridges in, they are available from Boots etc. Let your hair dry naturally and then you use the curling brush, there are tongs available too. The other thing I remember from my caravanning days was there used to be a hairdryer of some description that fitted onto the Carver/Truma fire,. I don't know whether they still make these or whether you would be able to couple one up to a blown air outlet. In the CC sites the dryers there are the electric equivalent it seems.

[Nobby]

[QUOTE]Just get a 3000TI and keep well away from Clive. The only people who moan about Gennies are the ones who either camp only in Summer, don't have one, or only stay on commercial sites.[/QUOTE] Hmm! Keep away from me as well! I hate the damn things. Your assumptions are well wide of the mark - I use my van for about 6 months of the year (stay at home in the summer though), I have a Honda genny sitting unused in my garage (left to me by my Dad) and I avoid commercial sites almost as actively as I avoid people who use generators on Aires etc. Inconsiderate people are not usually my company of choice and likely not the choice of most Aire/free campers who do what they do to find peace and quiet in the main. I don't care how quiet they are alleged to be, the incessant low drone of a generator cuts the air like a knife. Now if they could make one that reproduced the sound of an old Atco mower on a lovely English summer day then they might go some way to achieving acceptabilty. Until they do, then they should stay the preserve of gipsy sites and motor racing paddocks. Nobby

[livewire]

This business about needing a hair drier and hence a generator. Any one with a carver/fan master heater only has to close all the outlets but one and connect a length of 2" dia. tube to it and you have a hair drier.

[Randonneur]

[QUOTE]livewire - 2007-05-05 12:06 PM This business about needing a hair drier and hence a generator. Any one with a carver/fan master heater only has to close all the outlets but one and connect a length of 2" dia. tube to it and you have a hair drier.[/QUOTE] Like I said in my earlier post there are always ways to get around most things.

[Brian Kirby]

I wonder if this will make dB, as applied to sound pressures, easier to understand?  (Thank you Wikipedia!)

Theoretical limit for a sound wave at 1 atmosphere environmental pressure	194 dB
Threshold of pain	130 dB
Hearing damage (due to short-term exposure)	approx. 120 dB
Pneumatic drill at 1 m	approx. 100 dB
Hearing damage (due to long-term exposure)	approx. 90 dB
Major road at 10 m	80 – 90 dB
Passenger car at 10 m	60 – 80 dB
Normal talking at 1 m	40 – 60 dB
Very calm room	20 – 30 dB
Rustling leaves, calm breathing	10 dB
Auditory threshold at 2 kHz	0 dB

 

 

[derek500]

Brian, Very similar to the figures I posted yesterday (last post 1st page). So according to both sets of data, my E-bay purchase 57db, and the Honda 52db, both fall within the range of 'normal talking at 1 metre'. I assume my wife and daughter shouting at me on site, because their hair needs drying would be even more than 60db!!! What's better? There's only one way to find out.... (apologies to non Harry Hill viewers).

[livewire]

I don't see what is the point of all of the lectures in accoustic engineering. The fact is that in what should be a peaceful camp site setting, any generator makes an obtrusive noise and smell to those around it. Their use in a campsite is selfish. Full stop. End of. I use one occasionally when when wild camping in winter in the middle of nowhere (scottish highlands). However, never on a site, or aire or where anybody else would have their peace disturbed. If it's vital that you dry your hair, use a toaster or whatever, then go to site with a hook-up. I have been in the situation where i have seriously considered treating a selfishly run generator to a sugar additive to the petrol tank, if it went on for much longer!

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]derek500 - 2007-05-05 3:55 PM Brian, Very similar to the figures I posted yesterday (last post 1st page). So according to both sets of data, my E-bay purchase 57db, and the Honda 52db, both fall within the range of 'normal talking at 1 metre'. I assume my wife and daughter shouting at me on site, because their hair needs drying would be even more than 60db!!! What's better? There's only one way to find out.... (apologies to non Harry Hill viewers). [/QUOTE]

I know Derek, but they are rough and ready comparisons and some folk have louder voices that others!  The difference between the two is, nevertheless, as measured in dB, almost twice, and not the small margin the numbers alone seem to suggest.  I appreciate your use will be short, unfortunately others use the things for battery charging and all sorts of much longer term applications. 

I think this is in danger of becoming a bit of a witch hunt, which was not my wish or intention.  I should clarify that I automatically assume all forum members with generators use them with consideration.  Funny how some topics get tetchy, isn't it?

[Mel B]

I too have a distaste for generators, however, I would be content for you to use it near to me if you used it as little as possible (as already mentioned), and preferably at a time of day that would cause least disruption. If you do this hopefully you shouldn't have a problem with other motorhomers etc. If you really need one, get one. Good luck with the golf competitions! (lol)

[derek500]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2007-05-05 7:17 PM

[QUOTE]derek500 - 2007-05-05 3:55 PM Brian, Very similar to the figures I posted yesterday (last post 1st page). So according to both sets of data, my E-bay purchase 57db, and the Honda 52db, both fall within the range of 'normal talking at 1 metre'. I assume my wife and daughter shouting at me on site, because their hair needs drying would be even more than 60db!!! What's better? There's only one way to find out.... (apologies to non Harry Hill viewers). [/QUOTE]

I know Derek, but they are rough and ready comparisons and some folk have louder voices that others!  The difference between the two is, nevertheless, as measured in dB, almost twice, and not the small margin the numbers alone seem to suggest.  I appreciate your use will be short, unfortunately others use the things for battery charging and all sorts of much longer term applications. 

I think this is in danger of becoming a bit of a witch hunt, which was not my wish or intention.  I should clarify that I automatically assume all forum members with generators use them with consideration.  Funny how some topics get tetchy, isn't it?

[/QUOTE] Absolutely, Brian. I've just replaced my 95ah battery with two 100ah and we did three days stationary, without hook up. Still showed between 3/4 and half. It's just the bl--dy hair drying that needs to be sorted!! I think I'd me more annoyed with noisy kids kicking a ball around the site, smoke from BBQs, people having awning parties late at night etc. etc. The first CS I booked this week told me that's lots of people use generators. So I won't be alone. Mind you, if they have them on for more than 15 minutes, I won't be happy, but at least I've learnt the sugar remedy!!

[Dave Newell]

Derek, I'm no fan of generators but having read your reasons and planned use I for one would be quite happy for you to camp alongside me. Good luck to your daughter with the golf tournaments. :-D D.

[derek500]

[QUOTE]Dave Newell - 2007-05-06 9:39 AM Derek, I'm no fan of generators but having read your reasons and planned use I for one would be quite happy for you to camp alongside me. Good luck to your daughter with the golf tournaments. :-D D.[/QUOTE] Thanks Dave, I was feeling quite lonely and unwanted.