FredL Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've posted previously but on the wrong forum. This is our first van and we didn't know anything about motorhomes. We've had lots of parts replaced on our van starting with EGR valve, then DPF filter, then turbo. After the new turbo was fitted the drive back to the UK was terrible. Intermittent loss of power going uphill mainly but also on the flat, reverberations through the steering wheel and accelerator pedal, when the revs are between 1800-2000 there was (and still is) a lag. No engine management lights though. Local Fiat garage checked all the earth connections and plugged it into reader but said there was nothing wrong with it. But after the check over it drove fantastically well for just over 500 miles, then the fault reappeared. In Jan 2014 warning light on and turbo actuator replaced. We were told that it had seized completely due to corrosion from water ingress. It was then that we started reading up on water ingress into the engine bay and started to keep a check on ours. Some work had been done to rectify the problems with drainage from the scuttle and the seal below the passenger side windscreen had come away (2nd time) so that was re-sealed. When we collected the van we said it still wasn't right and a week later light on again and turbo was replaced for second time. We were told that the turbo that had been fitted 3 mths prior had corroded also. Then in Feb 2014 light came on again and a Fiat Field Engineer came up and checked our van and the DPF sensor was replaced. He test drove our van and said it was running okay. We then discovered the fuel filter was leaking so that had to be replaced. The intermittent loss of power continued but no warning lights. In April last year Fiat arranged for a garage to check it again. They told us there were no fault codes showing, but they had completed all the Fiat recommended work to prevent water ingress. Despite all this work the engine bay was still saturated when it rained. The wadding underneath the bonnet was (and still is) mouldy and most of the screws are rusty. In June last year we were driving up a hill near the Millau bridge in southern France when the van almost lost power completely but I just managed to coax it to the top in 1st gear. I can't tell you the gradient but could check. Again, amazingly, no warning light. The van then developed the judder when setting off in first and reverse. I contacted Fiat and they arranged for it to go back to the garage. It was there for 6wks. A reconditioned clutch part was fitted, and the electrics for the injectors were checked, but again no fault was showing on the reader for the power loss. When we picked it up it was driving so well, as it had done the previous December after the electrical connections had been checked. Unfortunately the fault reappeared again after 1000 miles this time, and still no warning light. 3 Fiat field engineers have checked it and they all say they can't find a fault with it. We are driving this vehicle and know exactly when it is driving well and when it is not. Fiat are now arranging for a rolling road test to check power levels, and a diagnostics test. You have said in the past that the ECU is covered with a plastic shield and would be pretty much impervious to water from above as is the fuse box. With ours, at one stage water was running off the fuse box cover onto the blue terminal and when I put my hand under the ECU cover it was soaking wet. The bulkhead soundproofing also gets wet. We have said we think there is a wiring fault but have been told that the warning light would come on if this were the case. We would REALLY appreciate your professional opinion on this. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredL Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hi all, I'm not sure whether Nick Fisher hasn't seen my post, or he's totally flummoxed by it! Anybody else out there got any knowledge of this? Or experienced the same, or similar, problem? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Fred, just to clarify the situation, Nick is a very busy man running a complex business with many demands on his time so unlike many of us he is not able to be here every day to offer his very generous unpaid support. His email address does appear on his profile so I guess as it is already in the public domain he would not mind you contacting him should you feel the need. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Hope you get your van sorted soon as it must be pretty depressing having had such a disasterous and depressing experience of what appears to be typical Fiat customer care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Experienced the same unresolved water ingress problems on our 2012 Fiat based M/H. Water ingress destroyed the EGR and even though wind screen and scuttle resealed, the still suffers. When parked up in storage, we place a cheap Screwfix tarp tight up to the underside of the overhang and down over the bonnet underneath the thermal covers to keep the worse away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hello Fred, I apologise for the delay. It was posted too late on Friday for me to see it and i have only just sat down today to have a look on here. First i should say that the design of the windscreen scuttle is very poor and leaves the factory not sealed at all; there are rubber edges along the top which if correctly fitted will keep a lot of rain water out but they warp over time and only an application of sealer will sort this out. If the vehicle is used frequently the water that drips onto the various engine parts will not cause a problem but if it is left for weeks on end the alternator and several other devices are vulnerable. If the fuse box cover and cover over the ECU are fitted correctly there should not be any risk of water damage from above. I have not experienced the problems that you describe but am pretty certain that if it were under warranty it would have received a new wiring loom by now. I believe you have a couple of wires shorting in the loom near to the fusebox or corrosion on one side of the blue connector under the fusebox. The main dealers are well aware of these issues and should stop wasting your money replacing parts that are perfectly fine. Where are you located? In the first instance, and to satisfy my good friend Colin's curiosity; Have the air pipes connected to the air filter been checked thoroughly for mice? I you don't have a dead mouse or two in there, you have an electrical fault and it won't be anything to do with water in the engine bay. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredL Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi, Thanks for your replies Tracker and Sydney 1, and many thanks to you Nick for your reply. I want to let everyone know that Fiat have been very good with us,despite the fact that our motorhome is out of warranty, and dealt with us in a professional manner. We are in North Yorkshire, and our M/H has been at a Fiat dealership in Darlington since yesterday. We would have hoped they had checked for dead mice previously but we do not know if this is the case. If it were an an electrical fault would a fault light not come on? Also, our M\H is not used for weeks at a time so the water in the engine bay doesn't dry off as it would on a commercial van. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Fred, If a device malfunctions and it is in some way connected to the emissions of the vehicle it should illuminate the engine management light. If the wiring to the device is compromised; the ECU will become confused and not know what to do. It can report a fault if it can identify the fault but if it gets a power signal, or loss of communication with a device where it is not expected this is not necessarily an identifiable fault. Imagine if the ECU is monitoring your refrigerator at home. It is looking for the presence of milk. It sees a milk container from time to time but does not know whether it is full, half full or empty. When you take the milk out of the fridge briefly to make a cup of tea, the ECU will not be able to see it; nor know if next time it sees milk will it be a new one, or the previous one with less milk in it? If milk is not present at any particular time, does this mean that the emissions of the fridge will be altered, especially if milk is not required at that time and that it may be present when it is? These devices are not particularly clever! The ECU and it's engine management light is not obliged to communicate any fault or potential fault that does not potentially affect the emissions of the vehicle at any given time. There is much more information stored that you can access with a suitable reader but even more is available to the dealer device. If, however nothing has been reported or stored; there will be nothing useful to see. At this point it becomes clear and obvious that the lines of communication are compromised and that the wiring has to be at fault. If it is intermittent and has similar effects it is normally two wires chaffing together or a wire breaking under strain. Prove the mice are not present by removing the air cleaner and nearby pipework and then get on to the wiring investigations. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 FredL - 2015-01-27 9:40 AM Hi, Thanks for your replies Tracker and Sydney 1, and many thanks to you Nick for your reply. I want to let everyone know that Fiat have been very good with us,despite the fact that our motorhome is out of warranty, and dealt with us in a professional manner. We are in North Yorkshire, and our M/H has been at a Fiat dealership in Darlington since yesterday. We would have hoped they had checked for dead mice previously but we do not know if this is the case. If it were an an electrical fault would a fault light not come on? Also, our M\H is not used for weeks at a time so the water in the engine bay doesn't dry off as it would on a commercial van. Thanks. Fred Is one to understand from your above post that all this work has been carried out by Fiat under their warranty, albeit the warranty expiry date has now passed? If so, they have, indeed, been very fair with you. If Fiat are bearing the cost, I assume they must be treating your van's fault/s as not having been properly resolved under the warranty, and so, having been accepted as warranty items, remain eligible for warranty treatment. If so, that is very good. However, as so much seems to have been replaced, at what must be very considerable expense, if you have been paying while various garages have been embarking on what seem to me to be wild goose chases, I do think you should ask Fiat to consider reimbursing you. It seems the underlying fault has not been identified despite all that work, and still remains to be remedied, rendering all money spent to date nugatory. If Fiat accept that way of working, all well and good, it is their money. But I really can't see why you should be expected to do so. I'll leave all the technical bits to Nick as he knows these vans so well, but I can well enderstand his reasoning, albeit I'm a bit confused as to how I get our van to make coffee instead of tea! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredL Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nick, Many thanks yet again for your reply. And Brian, yes, Fiat have been very fair with us. Hopefully we will now be able to resolve this fault. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 HI Ya try this blog page at the bottom for a remedy, i did it and it works, also i have a sheet of v thick plastic over the electrics under the headlamp and now no water gets in from the top thro the headlamp/quarter plastic trim onto the electrics, when you drive along the water tipss off the front link below jonathan http://themotorhomeyears.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/teething-troubles.html#comment-form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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