Tracker Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 We are considering a return to a compact coachbuilt and this looks like the joker in the pack - rare enough to appeal to us and hopefully well made enough to last as being no longer in business Benrley specific parts are likely to be rarer than hen's teeth? There are a few around in various parts of the country according to the Auto Trader website and I don't mind taking the spare parts risk as the upside is that you get a lot of well made van for sensible money ( well relatively) and now that we have now decided not to put much more cash into a motorhome as we, rightly or wrongly, feel that for us higher levels of enjoyment do not depend on spending higher levels of money? Before anyone complains, I am not in any way knocking the buyers of new vans or of spending megabucks - but for us we have decided not to as we have other foibles to spend it on instead! Each to their own! I have the greatest of respect for the Bentley family and for John Cockburn (of Autocruise fame) who put so much into their Bentley coachbuilts and any info I can glean will all help towards the decision. If anyone has any experience of the Master chassis cab, or of Bentley motorhomes in general, and how they drive and feel on the road compared to the X250 I would love to hear from you please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You have Master at the beginning and Traffic at the end! AFAIK they are built on the Traffic chassis, IMO a ballsup, in panel van form the Traffic has much worse gearbox problems than the x250, then bung an oversize coachbuilt on the back, a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for the proof reading Colin! I understand the Master is a rather different beast to the Trafic although I have read of early failures on the auto boxes on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If they had been built on a Master chassis they might have been quite good, but as I posted the Traffic gearbox is weak in the hands of WVM, putting a oversize coachbuilt on the back of a van the size of a VW transporter is unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 As I understand it Colin, the panel van may be used for PVC campers but the Master Chassis Cab is used for coachbuilts - hope so anyway! I can't imagine such experienced and well known designers taking that kind of shortcut - hope not anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Bentley built the smaller coachbuilts (of which the Indigo is one) on the smaller Trafic. AFAIK this has a worse reputation for underbonnet water ingress than the Ducato. :-( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/WTpKv9M20KS4Xy8DlWGQxL/vauxhall-nissan-and-renault-vans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Rich, For the 'Signature' range I believe they used the Master cab, with an Alko rear chassis, in a similar way that the Starburst had a Peugeot, and an Alko chassis. BUT the 'Indigo' was one of the 'Artisan range' which used the Trafic cab, with a Renault Chassis, a differant beast altogether. I must admit I fancied a 'Cerise' with a Rear habitation door, but they went into administration before I could, so I got the new Autotrail Instead. I liked their innovation, and the quality was 1st class,not many of them leaked (and that was from a Dealer,when I traded my Starlet 2 in). BUT they didn't seem to be able to handle the finances very well. Shame. Good luck Ray IMHO a Bentley 'Signature' Range coachbuilt, would be a better buy. http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/bentley-donington-motorhome-reviewed-2395/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Rich, The OAL review when it won the Caravan Club Design & Drive award Link confirms that the Indigo was built on a Trafic with a 2.0TD engine. There are several other reviews and comments if you search the OAL website... Link. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for the input guys which is much appreciated. The first two ads I saw stated Master chassis but other I see state Trafic LL29 which I presume would be the platform cab version originally plated at 2995 kg but uprated to 3250 mgw. I will research how this was achieved! As you say, the confusion probably relates to Bentley's use of the Master for the Signature and the Trafic for the Artisan range. The water leak issues seem to relate to pre 2010 vans so with any luck, but by no means guaranteed, 2011 and 2012 vans should be OK unless the base vehicles were old stock or in stock a long time. I guess the chassis numbers will tell me and I will certainly be looking at the track width and suspension set up if we get that far. I must admit I am less enamoured with the lighter Trafic but a lot will depend on how well, or otherwise, it drives and copes with the size and weight. I have never been influenced by awards and reviews as not only are they based on a brand new van but the testers appear to wear rose tinted spectacles and they are not spending their own money! Meanwhile thanks again for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I own a Bentley Donnington and have done since new 2012 probably the last one to come out of the factory. Based on the master with a 150 BHP 2.3ltr engine it far outstrips the Fiat 2.8 Ducato i owned previously on performance and ease of driving and that was chipped. The Renault cab is probably one of the best or the best around loads of storage, small steering wheel airbags .12v charging sockets ,simple cruise control /speed restriction. central locking all doors Very car like. it has custom front seats by Isringhausen. The gearbox on my vehicle is a 6 speed slick shift manual and very slick , NO nasty reverse gear problems as with the Fiats . The running gear is low slung Al-co chassis with corner steadies Jack Type. outside awning rear camera electric step. outside locker storage. led awning light and side markers Inside fitments are all available as they used Dometic Fridge/freezers Thetford cookers Dometic cooker extracter and top model ceramic bowl Thetford toilets. Truma Blow air heating. Whale water fittings or shurflo. micro wave by samsung. Helki roofs so no problems sourcing spares. The 12 volt lighting is all Led spot lamps and mood lighting strip lights,powered by a 110 amp hr gel battery all controlled by the state of the art control panel that even estimates your total battery life on your at the time usage,solar panel regulating,emergency starting when vehicle battery flat .dual charging of both batteries on EHU lots of mains sockets. roof mounted aerial and dedicated drop down TV locker. There are lots of other touches which make it a really good camper. I bought it because it looked better than the others in its class a well thought out vehicle with all the bells and whistles of a top class camper. Its a great pity the British firm went out of business after they started winning awards. Dont be put off by it being rare its a plus point its different. and well put together. Renault servicing 22k or 2 years Tracker you wont be disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 spartan3956 - 2015-01-24 9:22 PM The gearbox on my vehicle is a 6 speed slick shift manual and very slick , NO nasty reverse gear problems as with the Fiats . If you want gearbox problems Renaults are the van to own. From honest john General Motors PK5, PK6, PF1, PF6 manual transmission failure common in Traffic, Master and Primastar. The 'built-in' fault, which will result in failure, irrespective of how the vehicle is driven or serviced, is that the gearboxes are assembled in such a way that the preload on the bearings is massively over-torqued, which results in bearing failure, and the total destruction of the box from as low as 20k upwards. In some cases the boxes are built up so tight that it makes turning the box over by hand virtually impossible. Once the bearings are replaced, and shimmed correctly, the box will “go on” virtually indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Renault master gearbox is a fine bit of kit. I run 2 masters, 1 a minbus16 seater and 1 a mobile medical workshop always on the edge of max load. Touch wood never had a problem with any of the last 5 masters. I normally sell them at 250,000 miles. I have a merc with the 3ltr, but the suspension is not so good. I have also run a 8 seater minibus on the Traffic. They do have problems with 2 nd gear and the No 1 injector, ( but I have had no problems, it's maybe driving style) At present we are waiting for the Chauson on a fiat. Den Ps Son in law run his 16 seater master for 650.000 km. only major problem he had was 2nd gear. Cost £800 to repair and that was the largest bill in 6 years of ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thanks one and all for the info. Den, I see you are in Worcester - we are not far away in Evesham - can you suggest a trusted garage for Renault work, or a reliable gearbox refurbisher or supplier, just in case we buy one and just in case the gearbox implodes!! It appears that both Trafic and Master use the same GM sourced manual and automated gearboxes so I suppose you pays yer money and takes yer chances as some seem to be very good and some seem to have been unreliable? It's a minefield innit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan D Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I only buy Renault Masters with the 6 x speed auto box. First one 2.5 L 2007 next 2014 2.3 L both brilliant, so I do not bother to look elsewhere. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I do think some people live in the past when the name Renault is mentioned. The Master and Traffic are commercial vehicles which are expected to do high mileage. I have had two Renaults present and past and had no gearbox problems .The only problem i had with a high mileage vehicle was a core plug leaking that cost me all of £1.50 to replace and a bit of anti freeze. Generally they are good on performance and a lot quieter. A Euro 5 2.3 ltr develops more power than the old Fiat 2.8 ltr i owned. 150 compared to 122 BHP. well capable of rapidly moving a 3800kg motorhome. I believe the Fiat 3 ltr is now a 160 bhp output that's a heavy lump for 10 BHP A Mercedes Sprinter a fleet vehicle we use is always in and out the garage with management light problems.plus its pretty thirsty. The last Fiat i had was a good vehicle no faults at all maybe i was lucky. did have to change gear a lot on inclines due to lack of power in a high fifth gear. I did however worry that the fifth gear would fail reported by owners so the changing up and down must have helped the oil flow to fifth gear.. How many Topics have been posted about the new Fiat Gearbox COUNTLESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 We looked at the Indigo on a Traffic when it came out as we were looking to change. Beautiful inside, typical UK features. Lost points for the damage damp would do IF it got into the shell. Couldn't get much out of the dealers or manufacturers about the design and integrity of the build so concluded most of the effort was put into it looking good. The Trafic base was what finally decided us against a Bentley. The wing mirrors did not provide sufficient rear view visibility although wider mirrors were fitted to the later models [should have done that at launch]. My son, a commercial van driver, had driven both the Master [fine but no Merc or Iveco] and the Traffic [lovely van but surely you aren't going to put a motorhome body on it?]. Quite simply, we thought the Traffic was a cheap option to keep costs down and perhaps because they were available; the motorhome needed a better base vehicle. Did meet an Indigo owner last October. He was a sole motorhomer and loved the compact nature. Had no problems from new with either the body or the mechanics. He said it suited him as he just tootled around and only used sites with toilet/shower blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 After the Bently company went bust, a firm in Wigan bought the remaining stock/parts and the build rights. What happened to them and who were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 spartan3956 - 2015-01-25 11:56 AM I do think some people live in the past when the name Renault is mentioned. The Master and Traffic are commercial vehicles which are expected to do high mileage. I have had two Renaults present and past and had no gearbox problems .The only problem i had with a high mileage vehicle was a core plug leaking that cost me all of £1.50 to replace and a bit of anti freeze. Generally they are good on performance and a lot quieter. A Euro 5 2.3 ltr develops more power than the old Fiat 2.8 ltr i owned. 150 compared to 122 BHP. well capable of rapidly moving a 3800kg motorhome. I believe the Fiat 3 ltr is now a 160 bhp output that's a heavy lump for 10 BHP A Mercedes Sprinter a fleet vehicle we use is always in and out the garage with management light problems.plus its pretty thirsty. The last Fiat i had was a good vehicle no faults at all maybe i was lucky. did have to change gear a lot on inclines due to lack of power in a high fifth gear. I did however worry that the fifth gear would fail reported by owners so the changing up and down must have helped the oil flow to fifth gear.. How many Topics have been posted about the new Fiat Gearbox COUNTLESS You have your head firmly in the sand, I personality know more people with Renault gearbox problems than people with Fiat gearbox problems, it's only 2013 onwards that they sorted them. And what have I been doing this weekend? Building an extension to my van shed to take a 14 plate traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hi Tracker. The garage I use is J&m autos in Droitwich. Probably for the last 18 years. Never broken down and never failed to start ( so they must be doing something right ) touch wood. Gearbox wise, I've not had a problem and never think about it. My son in law had his Gearbox repaired by LMS Worcester. Minibus company. My present work van has been to Almoradi in Spain on 2 occasions ( non stop from Calais to the south of France with a overnight stay, then to our apartment ( apartment For Sale if anyone interested) the next day ( 1 tank of fuel from Calais to argue mort. ) Must say the tank was pretty empty. They are work horses, treat them well and open the throttle to blow the cobwebs out occasionally. Over 2000 revs for 30 mins or so. All masters have a slight noise form the idle gear in first at very slow speed, don't worry it's normal. All mine have been the same and been no problem. I only covered about 70,000 miles, but certainly with no problem mechanically, only one warranty repair on the headlight stalk. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thanks Den - appreciated - noted and hope I never need 'em!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hi Tracker, we have a Pilote on a Renault Master 2007 6 speed box, we have had this for 4 years and it Is a brilliant drive no problems. Our base is on an Alko Chassic. Only gearbox problem we had was on a Fiat Ducato Automatic 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Cup Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 colin - 2015-01-24 9:54 PMspartan3956 - 2015-01-24 9:22 PMThe gearbox on my vehicle is a 6 speed slick shift manual and very slick , NO nasty reverse gear problems as with the Fiats .If you want gearbox problems Renaults are the van to own.From honest john General Motors PK5, PK6, PF1, PF6 manual transmission failure common in Traffic, Master and Primastar. The 'built-in' fault, which will result in failure, irrespective of how the vehicle is driven or serviced, is that the gearboxes are assembled in such a way that the preload on the bearings is massively over-torqued, which results in bearing failure, and the total destruction of the box from as low as 20k upwards. In some cases the boxes are built up so tight that it makes turning the box over by hand virtually impossible. Once the bearings are replaced, and shimmed correctly, the box will “go on” virtually indefinitely.I have LWB High Top Vivaro which is the same as a Trafic. The gearbox went soon after I bought it, the local gearbox specialist said exactly that. It now drives a treat, gearbox is really smooth, I love driving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 urbanracer - 2015-01-25 1:25 PM After the Bently company went bust, a firm in Wigan bought the remaining stock/parts and the build rights. What happened to them and who were they? They were a luxury caravan manufacturer called Vanmaster, who also went bankrupt not long afterwards. http://www.business-sale.com/news/article/vanmaster-enters-administration-37114.html Shame, both good quality products, financial management rubbish. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 colin - 2015-01-25 1:27 PM spartan3956 - 2015-01-25 11:56 AM I do think some people live in the past when the name Renault is mentioned. The Master and Traffic are commercial vehicles which are expected to do high mileage. I have had two Renaults present and past and had no gearbox problems .The only problem i had with a high mileage vehicle was a core plug leaking that cost me all of £1.50 to replace and a bit of anti freeze. Generally they are good on performance and a lot quieter. A Euro 5 2.3 ltr develops more power than the old Fiat 2.8 ltr i owned. 150 compared to 122 BHP. well capable of rapidly moving a 3800kg motorhome. I believe the Fiat 3 ltr is now a 160 bhp output that's a heavy lump for 10 BHP A Mercedes Sprinter a fleet vehicle we use is always in and out the garage with management light problems.plus its pretty thirsty. The last Fiat i had was a good vehicle no faults at all maybe i was lucky. did have to change gear a lot on inclines due to lack of power in a high fifth gear. I did however worry that the fifth gear would fail reported by owners so the changing up and down must have helped the oil flow to fifth gear.. How many Topics have been posted about the new Fiat Gearbox COUNTLESS You have your head firmly in the sand, I personality know more people with Renault gearbox problems than people with Fiat gearbox problems, it's only 2013 onwards that they sorted them. And what have I been doing this weekend? Building an extension to my van shed to take a 14 plate traffic. Nothing like burying your head in the sand, The X250 had MASSES of gearbox problems when introduced, My 2012 Euro5 with all the mods, STILL cannot reverse up a moderate incline without trying to either destroy the clutch or shake itself to pieces. The reverse gear is Still far too High. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-01-25 7:01 PM colin - 2015-01-25 1:27 PM spartan3956 - 2015-01-25 11:56 AM I do think some people live in the past when the name Renault is mentioned. The Master and Traffic are commercial vehicles which are expected to do high mileage. I have had two Renaults present and past and had no gearbox problems .The only problem i had with a high mileage vehicle was a core plug leaking that cost me all of £1.50 to replace and a bit of anti freeze. Generally they are good on performance and a lot quieter. A Euro 5 2.3 ltr develops more power than the old Fiat 2.8 ltr i owned. 150 compared to 122 BHP. well capable of rapidly moving a 3800kg motorhome. I believe the Fiat 3 ltr is now a 160 bhp output that's a heavy lump for 10 BHP A Mercedes Sprinter a fleet vehicle we use is always in and out the garage with management light problems.plus its pretty thirsty. The last Fiat i had was a good vehicle no faults at all maybe i was lucky. did have to change gear a lot on inclines due to lack of power in a high fifth gear. I did however worry that the fifth gear would fail reported by owners so the changing up and down must have helped the oil flow to fifth gear.. How many Topics have been posted about the new Fiat Gearbox COUNTLESS You have your head firmly in the sand, I personality know more people with Renault gearbox problems than people with Fiat gearbox problems, it's only 2013 onwards that they sorted them. And what have I been doing this weekend? Building an extension to my van shed to take a 14 plate traffic. Nothing like burying your head in the sand, The X250 had MASSES of gearbox problems when introduced, My 2012 Euro5 with all the mods, STILL cannot reverse up a moderate incline without trying to either destroy the clutch or shake itself to pieces. The reverse gear is Still far too High. Ray Never ever have I said the x250 didn't have problems, but the fact remains the Renault (pre 2013) had much more severe gearbox problems and a much higher failure rate due to it's GM gearbox, and for Peter to claim otherwise was not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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