AlanMos Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Most components working off the leisure battery have stopped working, fridge, diesel heater, etc. Interior lights are very dim so I guess the battery is flat. It is 140 ah gel and 5 years old. Before I spend over £300 on a new one how can I check that it's not the charger's fault and/or the battery is a actually dead? Sorry but not very technically competent Best wishes, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Come on Alan and give us some more info please. What is the MH, how old, what charger or control panel does it have, etc, etc... Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It certainly sounds like the battery is discharged but a gel battery, unless neglected, should last more than 5 years, so it might be a charger problem. Arrange to get the MH plugged in to an electrical supply overnight and check the battery's state of charge then. How is your MH stored? On an EHU? Do you hook up regularly or take the battery home to top it up during winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Does everything work on hook up? If so. Try an external battery charger and see how long it holds a charge for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thanks for replies. It's a 5 year old Westfalia Ford Nugget. Hence, a PVC which I use on a more or less daily basis. Have had it on hook up and 240v sockets are working but not 12v functions. Conversion fuses are OK but I don't know how to check if the charger has gone or the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Sounds more like the charger. So the power supply to the charger (switches, fuses?) need checking, and the output. This isnlt complicated to do if you have a multimeter and know how to use it but if you dont know what sort of charger or even where it is in the MH, you probably need to take it to someone who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Find a local auto electrician who will test it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Alan, Do you have a multimeter or does your control panel show your leisure battery as a true voltage (ie not 1/4, 1/2 etc)? If no to both above then get a multimeter, they are fairly cheap in the likes of Maplin or maybe Screwfix, etc. Or maybe borrow one from a neighbour? Measure the voltage of the leisure battery, if it is totally flat as you imply then it will read very low, possibly only 10 volts. Now plug in the EHU and switch on the charger, does the reading rise to above 13 volts? If it does then the charger is working. Then unplug the EHU and start the engine, does the voltage rise to above 13 volts? If yes then the split charge is working. If the voltage does not alter with either of the above tests then you have possibly blown the main battery fuse. Follow the positive wire from the leisure battery terminal fuse and look for a fuseholder. Has it blown? I would strongly suggest you get the battery on charge with a good quality charger as soon as possible and see if it will recharge. The longer you leave it discharged the more damage you will do it (if it isn't dead already that is). Let us know how you get on. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Many thanks Keith and others. I will get on to that tomorrow. I have had it on hook up for over 24 hours but to no avail. I also notice that the on-charge symbol on the information display is not on. The handbook, which I have now found in the attic, says "this symbol disappears if there is a power failure or the charger malfunction. There always has been a very dim beam coming from the lights but no other components show anything while the 240v sockets are live. best wishes Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogher Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 What you’ve described suggests a charger fault. There could be an internal fuse blown in the charger, if you cannot find an external one that’s gone, but you should then be wondering what caused it to go. If not, you could well be getting through a lot of fuses. Get your battery recharged asap. They don’t like being left discharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I bought a multimeter and it showed 5.1 though I am not certain that I had it set up correctly. Hook up connection showed no difference nor did starting the engine with hook up out. I disconected the battery and set up charger which more or less went from 'charging' to 'fully charged' ????????????????????????? Best wishes, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You can persevere with the charger and see if you can get it to start charging. This sometimes happens when a battery has got way too discharged and cells have high resistance... almost immediately shows full charge. You may be able to recover it to some extent and hopefully enough to at least get some 12 volts from it. However I suspect you have taken so low you have reverse charged some cells. That is not good news. I would at least try to get the volts up above 10 volts on battery. Then you can reconnect to van and check van electrics out. You may have a system which will not attempt charging if battery voltage is below around 8 volts or even below 10 volts. However if that was the case I would also expect it to stop any electrics working below 10 volts and as you had dim lights this seems unlikely. Thing is battery is probably now wrecked so not a good idea to leave in van. If it will not recover on charger then best call it a day. I also suspect if you look at the casing it is somewhat swollen. If it is swollen then time to give up. Most likely some fuses have blown in van and you just have not found them yet. Look near the battery. They may have blown when battery was low on volts and being a gel the charge current from alternator could have been massive. Also look near engine battery for a fused connection which has blown and feeds the charge from alternator to the slave charge relays. Now the on board power supply. With the battery disconnected your electrics should work on hook up, if not, then a blown fuse or charger is faulty. Keep the loose battery positive clamp from shorting to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks for that have been out in the van and checked things when I got back Display in van showed hook up symbol and 11.12 Multimeter showed 11.14 with and without engine running When hook up attached multimeter was at 13.92 With charger attached to battery multimeter was at 12.6 ie the charger I bought this morning not the in built one Now, an hour and a half later with new charger on slow both van display and multimeter show 13.9 Has the messing about rekindled the battery, would you think and if so will it last? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You need to ask yourself why it went flat in the1st place as van is in daily use. Was it because you left something on, or does the alternator not charge the battery because of a fault. If it happened to fail just by itself then its likely to happen again. If you found it was flat because of a fault then you may get lucky and be able to use it. Check the battery physically for swelling of the plates making the ends bulge. If so discard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hi Alan and thanks for persevering and answering our many questions. My deductions from your latest findings are as follows... First, as the battery voltage does not increase when you start the engine your split charge circuit has failed. This could be for one of several reasons. I was going to say there will be probably be a relay and fuse under the bonnet but then remembered you have a Transit and IIRC the starter battery is under one of the seats, so look near the starer battery for a relay and fuse with a wire leading to the leisure battery. Check the fuse and if voltage is present. Also feel if the relay 'clicks' when you start the engine. If not we'll have to offer more help on that one. Second, your on-board power supply/charger appears to be working as when you had it on hook up you read 13.91 volts. Also I would surmise that the control panel is working as you are quoting similar voltages off the the panel and multimeter. So all good there :-) Finally I agree with Jon (Brambles) that you really need to check the battery for any signs of swelling or damage. Again IIRC, you said it was a sealed battery so you cannot check it's water level :-( The final test will be once it is fully charged to allow it to stand for 24 hours and see what voltage it can hold. If it is still above say, 12.5 volts then it may have survived. If it has fallen to under 12 volts then it is shot! HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hello Left the van last night at 8.30 pm and 12.7 was showing on the display. It is now showing 12.5/12.6. Does this mean that the battery is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 AlanMos - 2015-02-11 11:05 AM Hello Left the van last night at 8.30 pm and 12.7 was showing on the display. It is now showing 12.5/12.6. Does this mean that the battery is OK. Certainly looking good :-) Now you need to find out why it is not charging from the alternator! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 If the engine battery is charging OK the alternator is good and if the leisure battery charges OK off the van that battery is good so the fault must be between the alternator and the leisure battery. As the mains works OK on hookup that does suggest a fault in the charger/ control box or the wiring / fuses twixt charger / control unit and leisure battery. Have you checked the relay connections and fuse contacts especially if they are exposed under the bonnet. I do not believe that your problem is there but it's worth checking anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Tracker - 2015-02-11 12:31 PM Have you checked the relay connections and fuse contacts especially if they are exposed under the bonnet. Aren't both engine and leisure batteries under the seats on Transits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 AlanMos - 2015-02-11 11:05 AM Hello Left the van last night at 8.30 pm and 12.7 was showing on the display. It is now showing 12.5/12.6. Does this mean that the battery is OK. I shows it can accept charge and you do not have a shorted cell. However it does not indicate if has any reasonable capacity. You will only find that out by doing a discharge test. In other words using it and see how long it takles to flatten. Your next issue is how many days it takes to self discharge and check it charges from the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Many thanks. I will check how long the battery works for. However, it's not getting anything from the alternator os it seems that the split chager is not working. The 'cranking' battery is under the drivers seat and there is a "pre-fuse box" there too. Relevant section of the manual is here: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/vdirsnet/ownerguide_eu/default.aspx?bookcode=O13747&market=GB&language=EN&title=Transit - T9~54?VIN=WF0DXXGAKDCS46989 So do I need to replace the relay R1? Best wishes Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/vdirsnet/ownerguide_eu/default.aspx?bookcode=O13747&market=GB&language=EN&title=Transit - T9~54?VIN=WF0DXXGAKDCS46989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMos Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Sorry was trying to include link for the precise page. However, the link goes to the index. So please click 'fuses' and then 'Fuse Specification Chart'. The one I refer to is top of page. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Unfortunately I am not familiiar with the Transists lastest way of having a dual battery system. I know R1 would normally close when starting the engine so presumambly would remain closed after the engine starts so auxilliary battrey gets charged. I also believe some converters by pass the ford dual battery system and fit their own slave charge relays but what they actually do I have no idea. Might be worth talking to Westfallia tech support. Assumming the relay is still used then all you can maybe do in meantime is to check all the fuses are Ok. It is more likely a fuse as blown than the relay be defective...I think. What I will need to follow this up further is a circuit diagram. Oh god forbid..where do I get hold of one of them for the transist!!! I also assume you can test the relay with your voltmeter. Run the engine and see if you have the same voltage on the input as the output. Fuse 2, 8,9, and 10 seem the most likely culprits. Sorry I do not have a real answer for you. edit - usual typos and spelling mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Alan, Putting a very simple approach hat on here can you follow the live wires from your leisure battery back in the direction of the starter battery and see whether you come across any fuses or relays. It may be that the wiring goes to your control panel or charger but it is worth a try. Alternatively look for 'non-standard' wires on the starter battery or fuse box and see if these lead to a fuse? You should be able to spot anything that is not 'Ford' fitted fairly easily (I hope anyway). Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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