MJG Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 When we travel in the car our JRT rides on the back seat with a harness and a seatbelt clip (this plugs into the seatbelt point) which not only helps keep him in check but also on the event of an accident would provide a degree of restraint. I can see if we have a MH with four travelling seats we can replicate this but in the event we only end up with two travelling seats I am interested in any innovative solutions people have come up with for carrying their dog safely whilst on the move. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh1 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Just let my two wander about, although they sleep on the sofas most of the time, problem would be in Germany where they are supposed to be restrained, but never having been stopped by the police there it's never been an issue, we also wander about and sit in the back sometimes, as we are over 16 quite legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJG Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 markh1 - 2015-02-08 10:34 PM Just let my two wander about, although they sleep on the sofas most of the time, problem would be in Germany where they are supposed to be restrained, but never having been stopped by the police there it's never been an issue, we also wander about and sit in the back sometimes, as we are over 16 quite legal Thanks for the reply but that wouldn't work for us I'm afraid even if it is legal. I would want to give him a fighting chance in the event of a collision, even a relatively minor one could cause an injury to an unrestrained dog, worse in a severe one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Use a cage then for your dog. There is always somewhere to fix it safely to, or tuck it behind the front seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artheytrate Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Our little Jack Russell bitch sits on wife's knee with wife's seat belt threaded through her harness belt. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallynnette Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I believe from 1st Jan this year it is a legal requirment in this country to have any pet safely secured i.e crate, harness through seat belt etc. So I've got to try and persevere with our dog, always in a crate in the car, now its a seat belt harness on the next trip out in the motorhome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJG Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wallynnette - 2015-02-09 7:02 AM I believe from 1st Jan this year it is a legal requirment in this country to have any pet safely secured i.e crate, harness through seat belt etc. So I've got to try and persevere with our dog, always in a crate in the car, now its a seat belt harness on the next trip out in the motorhome I'm not sure it is actually illeagal just yet, but I am happy to be corrected, but it's certainly stipulated in the Highway Code and animal welfare organisations often recommend it too. As with any breaches of the Highway Code though which aren't always illeagal in themselves still can lead to a prosecution if you cause an accident by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm pretty sure it's long been an offence to have an unrestrained dog in a vehicle, on the basis that it could interfere with th driver's safe control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We secure our dog using a harness and a clip into one of the rear seat belt buckles. It allows enough scope for the dog to change position but essentially she stays on the seat bench during the journey. But I doubt it would give much worthwhile protection in the event of a crash. To achieve that you would probably have to design some sort of special restraint system which held the dog securely, which many dogs would find difficult to cope with. If you really want to optimise the dog's chances a small cage in the rear garage might do so for forward collisions, but not necessarily for rear shunts. For small dogs a harness with a baby-loop around the passenger's seat harness might be as good as you can realistically manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Although it's in the Highway Code to restrain animals, it doesn't seem to be the law, unlike passengers. The RAC site puts "breaking the law" in inverted commas and provides no evidence to support the statement. I bought a MH with rear bunks so the dogs could be restrained with a net in the bottom one. But eventually they curled up in the passenger footwell and fell asleep. So I left them. In my car they stay in a "hammock" that is attached to the front and rear headrests so they have a sort of cocoon that protects them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJG Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 StuartO - 2015-02-09 9:08 AM I'm pretty sure it's long been an offence to have an unrestrained dog in a vehicle, on the basis that it could interfere with th driver's safe control. That's the thing. It still isn't a specic offence (though common sense perhaps says it should be). However it can still lead (no pun intended) to copping for a fine/points as a result of doing so eg driving without due care and attention if distracted. So a well behaved dog quietly lying unrestrained in a vehicle is unlikely to attract the attention of the police, but one jumping all over the inside of a moving vehicle is likely to do so. http://www.autoglassnews.co.uk/index.php?id=pree-release-display&previd=150&prid=96&cHash=8069d7b90636318ae6a4df2b4c8963c0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Our two Labradors just sleep in the rear of the van, on the floor, on their Beds, we have no rear Travel seats (and wouldn't want them anyway). The only time they stir is if Food is being consumed. As they are at floor level, we consider them less of a problem than say, the 190 litre Fridge, or the the Oven, which are considerably heavier, not very well 'restrained' and at waist or chest height. Suspect that in a 'Serious Shunt' the Dogs would be the least of our problems. They would probably Sleep on through it. They never 'wander about' or Climb on furniture, as has been suggested, They have been trained not to. No more 'unenforceable' Laws please, there are enough already. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southender Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 markh1 - 2015-02-08 10:34 PM Just let my two wander about, although they sleep on the sofas most of the time, problem would be in Germany where they are supposed to be restrained, but never having been stopped by the police there it's never been an issue, we also wander about and sit in the back sometimes, as we are over 16 quite legal That is stupid and irresponsible on both accounts ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Allowing a child to wander around a moving motorhome is irresponsible and foolish. You may have an emergency stop or be involved in a head-on collision that is no fault of your own. A child would be thrown forward with such force that it could go through the windscreen, or at best, injure or kill itself on the 'van furnishing. Now substitute child for dog. Perhaps these dog owners don't care for their pets as much as they'd have us believe? If you can't secure a child or a dog in a motorhome, you shouldn't be carrying either. All dog owners who carry unrestrained dogs should read MJG's link above. This spells it out clearly. One interesting paragraph from it says: 'During a 30mph accident the animal?s body weight also increases by more than 30 times. This means that an average family Labrador sat on the back seat would be thrown forward with a one tonne weight ? easily injuring those in the front. ' Imagine the effect at 50 or 60 mph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-02-09 11:37 AM Allowing a child to wander around a moving motorhome is irresponsible and foolish. You may have an emergency stop or be involved in a head-on collision that is no fault of your own. A child would be thrown forward with such force that it could go through the windscreen, or at best, injure or kill itself on the 'van furnishing. Now substitute child for dog. Perhaps these dog owners don't care for their pets as much as they'd have us believe? If you can't secure a child or a dog in a motorhome, you shouldn't be carrying either. All dog owners who carry unrestrained dogs should read MJG's link above. This spells it out clearly. One interesting paragraph from it says: 'During a 30mph accident the animal?s body weight also increases by more than 30 times. This means that an average family Labrador sat on the back seat would be thrown forward with a one tonne weight ? easily injuring those in the front. ' Imagine the effect at 50 or 60 mph? Have you seen the ' Bailey Testing' Pictures ? The Fridge and Oven 'whistled' through the van like missiles and ended up outside the van, They are only 'nominally' screwed in with small woodscrews. Travelling in a Motorhome is a 'Risky business' at the best of times. AND my Labradors would never be on the furniture OR walking about. Just putting the 'Risks' into prospective.OR are you suggesting that the fridge and oven should be removed before travelling ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I agree, a couple of Labradors flying through the air are likely to be a lot softer when they hit something, mind you the aftermath may resemble a Tarantino movie. :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-02-09 12:14 PM Have you seen the ' Bailey Testing' Pictures ? The Fridge and Oven 'whistled' through the van like missiles and ended up outside the van, They are only 'nominally' screwed in with small woodscrews. Travelling in a Motorhome is a 'Risky business' at the best of times. AND my Labradors would never be on the furniture OR walking about. Just putting the 'Risks' into prospective.OR are you suggesting that the fridge and oven should be removed before travelling ? Ray Well, my first reaction would be never to buy a Bailey. A motorhome with a fridge and oven that detach themselves and fly through the air in a collision is obviously not fit for purpose and I'm amazed that they can get away with trashy design such as this. And surely this can only apply to appliances that are forward facing? In all the 'vans I've owned the oven and fridge have been mounted along the side of the 'van and jammed in between other fittings. But my message wasn't just aimed at owners of Baileys, because this problem affects all motorhomes. So are you saying that just because your Bailey is dangerous in a crash we should allow dogs and children to wander about a moving one in any make? What I am suggesting is that no one with any common sense would allow a child to wander unrestricted around a motorhome, so why would anyone let a dog do the same thing? As for your comment about taking out the fridge when travelling, are you serious? No one expects anyone to have to remove large appliances. They should be securely fixed in the first place. Tale my advice, get a motorhome that is safe and isn't a mobile death trap. You claim that your dogs never walk around but you said this: 'Our two labradors just sleep in the rear of the van, on the floor, on their beds' How do they get from the bed to the floor, or the rear to the floor? Teleportation? And you must be able to understand that a dog sitting on the floor is going to fly through the windscreen in an emergency stop. That's if it doesn't stop by breaking your or your passenger's neck on the way through. This isn't about one make of motorhome. It's about the utter irresponsibility of allowing large animals to be transported unsecured. Would you allow one of your children to travel unsecured? If not why would you allow a dog that's as large as a child? Anyone who does this is motivated by one of two things. Idleness or meanness. They know the risk but can't be bothered doing anything about it as they think that they're not doing anything illegal, and they just take a chance that they'll never have an accident. But it's like seat belts. They're a pain until you need one. Or they know the risk and won't spend the money on a suitable restraining system or cage. and again, shrug their shoulders and say: "Driving's a risky business, if my dog/child is unsecured it's part of the risk." Sensible people eliminate risk, especially when it can save other lives, human or canine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Darwin rules, OK. PS But only if of an age to reproduce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't own a Bailey, and wasn't talking about Bailey's per say, but ALL motorhomes. It's just that Bailey are the ONLY company that I know of that HAS crash tested it's motorhomes, cause I could be wrong on that ? The fridge and oven WERE side facing, and burst through the restraining screws and furniture.And yes, i was being facitious about removing them before travel. Plus, The dogs only move to their 'Spots' in the motorhome while it is stationary, after we get on the move, they don't move, until they are told 'Up Walkies'. They lay at floor height. Get the Risks into prospective. I like the 'tarantino' movie idea, All of life is a 'Risk'. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=motorhome+crash+a31&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&imgil=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%253Bqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%25252Fnews%25252F11364692.One_dead_and_two_injured_in_head_on_collision_which_closed_A31_for_five_hours%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%252Cqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%252C_&usg=__61KIhpGnyYC8NgEMHO4nto7dXQk%3D&ved=0CD0Qyjc&ei=Na_YVIP0Gojd7QbM0IGIBQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%3Bqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%252Fresources%252Fimages%252F3161791%252F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%252Fnews%252F11364692.One_dead_and_two_injured_in_head_on_collision_which_closed_A31_for_five_hours%252F%3B600%3B400 Apologies, don't know how to 'Shrink the link'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 As I recall it was in a copy of "The Traffic Officers Handbook" where I saw that driving with an unrestrained dog in a vehicle is an offence but I have lost track of the book so I cannot conform it as gospel. Risk management is always about shades of grey rather than black or white, even though some people declare their own black and white opinions on the subject. In practice restraining a dog probably has to settle for preventing it reaching the driver (in a crash as well as in normal driving) rather than achieving perfect crash protection for the little darling, so a harness or collar (a harness obviously being better) and some credibly strong enough attachment to the vehicle at a point far enough back from the driver to prevent contact will do the minimum necessary. If you can do better than that, even better. If you don't have a spare rear seat belt buckle, fabricate some other way of holding the little darling back. A large and/or heavy dog will obviosuly require a more robust fastening than a toy-sized animal. We met a Leonberger weighing 98kg recently that might require very considerable anchorage to stop him becoming a balistic missle in a crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-02-09 1:00 PM I don't own a Bailey, and wasn't talking about Bailey's per say, but ALL motorhomes. It's just that Bailey are the ONLY company that I know of that HAS crash tested it's motorhomes, cause I could be wrong on that ? The fridge and oven WERE side facing, and burst through the restraining screws and furniture.And yes, i was being facitious about removing them before travel. Plus, The dogs only move to their 'Spots' in the motorhome while it is stationary, after we get on the move, they don't move, until they are told 'Up Walkies'. They lay at floor height. Get the Risks into prospective. I like the 'tarantino' movie idea, All of life is a 'Risk'. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=motorhome+crash+a31&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&imgil=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%253Bqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%25252Fnews%25252F11364692.One_dead_and_two_injured_in_head_on_collision_which_closed_A31_for_five_hours%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%252Cqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%252C_&usg=__61KIhpGnyYC8NgEMHO4nto7dXQk%3D&ved=0CD0Qyjc&ei=Na_YVIP0Gojd7QbM0IGIBQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=cWv0iThpHBigkM%253A%3Bqr9gQQDl3CMXOM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%252Fresources%252Fimages%252F3161791%252F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.bournemouthecho.co.uk%252Fnews%252F11364692.One_dead_and_two_injured_in_head_on_collision_which_closed_A31_for_five_hours%252F%3B600%3B400 Apologies, don't know how to 'Shrink the link'. My risks are in perspective. I don't take risks that could kill me or a child or a dog if I can easily eliminate them. But I ask again, would you allow your children to travel in this manner? And your dogs lying on the floor is the best position in the 'van for a quick trip through the windscreen. You really haven't got a leg to stand on here. What you are doing is dangerous and foolish. You may never have an accident and your dogs may never be killed, but if you had a head-on crash with another driver, through no fault of your own, could you ever forgive yourself if a dog or a child was killed, especially as their death was easily preventable for a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Muswell - 2015-02-09 12:55 PM Darwin rules, OK. PS But only if of an age to reproduce. And that of course is the third reason why people don't secure dogs. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 MJG - 2015-02-08 10:16 PM When we travel in the car our JRT rides on the back seat with a harness and a seatbelt clip (this plugs into the seatbelt point) which not only helps keep him in check but also on the event of an accident would provide a degree of restraint. I can see if we have a MH with four travelling seats we can replicate this but in the event we only end up with two travelling seats I am interested in any innovative solutions people have come up with for carrying their dog safely whilst on the move. Thanks. Never bothered securing our dogs, maybe we've been lucky :-S ..........although knowing that foreign plod can in current climes looking for a reason to turn folk into a nice little earner *-) ......... I have installed a strong point with a harness attached just in case ;-) ..........which we may use it with new pup :D ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 My two curl up in their bed behind the driver seat, I don't allow them to wander around, if they get restless I put their harness on and attach their lead :-S I think Ive only once had to do this with the younger one! if I ever start to have problems we will fix a ring somewhere as pelmetman has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Exactly my point Maggy ;-) ...........Our dogs have always stayed on the dinette behind my drivers seat, they've always chosen that position themselves 8-) ................maybe they ain't daft?............ Plus should I turn the wrong way up a mountain pass..........would I want to be strapped into 3 tons of metal hurtling down hill :-| ............. We're born we'll die.............I suspect it'll be my cheap wine and pork pie habit that'll do for me :'( ..........Unless Franks got a contract out on me :D................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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