Ban on smoking in motorhomes next?

[Duncan MMM]

Good idea or the nanny state sticking its nose in?

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Legal/Ban-on-smoking-in-vehicles-becomes-law/_ch1_nw3838_pg1

 

The MP that has introduced the new regulations wants to ban smoking in motorhomes, when children are present, as well as cars.

[Guest Joe90]

Is that before or after they ban Mums using diesel cars for the school run, that now appear to be spewing out all the carcinogenic stuff under the Sun ( after everyone was encouraged to buy them for their green credentials ) :-S

 

Odd that when you think about it a stationary car is exhausting its fumes directly into the following cars air intakes............. 8-) may as well get the kids to suck on the exhaust pipe.

[Guest Had Enough]

You'll get the usual reaction from people going on about the nanny state but it's only the nanny state when it's something they don't like. If it's a law they approve of it's sensible legislation.

 

You'll also get the 'it's unenforcible' argument, but that's not the point. It is enforcible as it can be witnessed, but the simple fact that something is illegal always means that most people obey the law, so simply enacting it will see a massive reduction in this filthy practice.

 

Knowing what we now know about the effects of smoking on young children, only a selfish and very stupid person would smoke in confined spaces where there are children present.

 

I have no problem with banning smoking in any confined space if children are present. I remember the arguments about the 'nanny state' when smoking was banned in pubs and restaurants, I remember the arguments about the 'nanny state' when the breathalyser was introduced. Who would now argue that these 'nanny state' statutes were wrong?

 

 

 

[ips]

I think that anyone stupid enough to smoke in front of children in a confined area is not the sort of person to take any notice of a law that says they cannot.

 

I smoke cigars but have never smoked in the house when my daughter was young and now I only smoke at the back door or in the kitchen. I would never smoke in the van ever.

[Brock]

Smoking by drivers should be banned in all vehicles. However, it is too much to ban smoking for other people whether the vehicle is moving or not, especially one that is considered 'home'.

 

I'm anti-smoking and would welcome a total ban. However, I do accept people should have the personal responsibility for their actions rather than the state getting involved in the detail of our lives.

 

So nanny state. For me that is a rare difference of opinion with Frank.

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

ips - 2015-02-10 11:31 AM

 

I think that anyone stupid enough to smoke in front of children in a confined area is not the sort of person to take any notice of a law that says they cannot.

 

I think you're wrong. Not long ago stupid people would drink and drive. Stupid people wouldn't wear a seat belt. Stupid people would talk on mobile phones when driving. Now most of these stupid people have stopped doing these stupid things. You'll always get a few who'll take a chance, but it is now just a few in the grand scheme of things.

 

Also, social attitudes change and drink driving and using mobiles when driving are now frowned upon by the vast majority of us. Anyone who breaks the law and continues smoking in confined spaces where there are children present will begin to feel the social pressure and will, as in these other examples, stop what they're doing.

 

Exactly the same argument has been used about every piece of similar legislation - stupid people will just carry on. But the evidence is that most of them don't.

 

 

Edited to say: I am not in favour of banning smoking in cars, motorhomes or your own homes. As has been said, if people want to smoke knowing the risks, good luck to them.

 

I'm only talking about smoking in confined places where there are small children present. All the evidence tells us that second-hand smoke has a very deleterious effect on children's health, effects that can be long lasting.

 

I actually believe that we should be able to do anything we like as long as it doesn't affect others or cause the state huge expense. Smokers cause the NHS huge expense but it could be argued that their taxes on fags has contributed a lot of that.

 

I also believe that this thread should be confined to its original question, which is about smoking in vehicles. If anyone wishes to divert it by bringing in other sources of pollution, they should start a new thread on their subject and not try to change the subject of this one.

 

 

[Guest Joe90]

I have no truck with smoking around children, but given the mounting evidence of carcinogenic diesel particulates, and especially as it impacts on children on the school run, perhaps we should all give up driving our non essential leisure vehicles, or even lobby the government to ban them all completely, say within the next 5 years.

[Muswell]

Brock - 2015-02-10 11:38 AM

 

Smoking by drivers should be banned in all vehicles. However, it is too much to ban smoking for other people whether the vehicle is moving or not, especially one that is considered 'home'.

 

I'm anti-smoking and would welcome a total ban. However, I do accept people should have the personal responsibility for their actions rather than the state getting involved in the detail of our lives.

 

So nanny state. For me that is a rare difference of opinion with Frank.

 

But this is about when there are children present. It means that they are not forced to join the suicide bid.

[antony1969]

Waste of time for me ... If an adult smokes in a confined space in front of a child after all the info on the dangers is widely known then that parent probably has a two fingers to the law attitude anyway

I'm not a smoker and don't like the smell and everything else that goes with it but where do you draw the line ? ... Someone who feeds kids burger , chips and egg every night with no fruit or veg to be seen is surely as bad a parent as the smoker

Shall we have the fruit and veg police at the checkout demanding parents purchase the recommended amount ?

[malc d]

What's wrong with nannies ?

 

Some people need them.

 

 

;-)

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 11:43 AM

 

I have no truck with smoking around children, but given the mounting evidence of carcinogenic diesel particulates, and especially as it impacts on children on the school run, perhaps we should all give up driving our non essential leisure vehicles, or even lobby the government to ban them all completely, say within the next 5 years.

 

 

In the past, i used to wonder whether you were slightly deranged. now I KNOW that you are.

Unless of course you are being 'Ironic' trying to bait that other online 'LOONY TUNES' Frank, Had Enough alias I don't believe it. alias ??

 

I agree when they Banned smoking in restuarants, and around Children Yes, But Pubs, no, public open spaces no, private cars no, everywhere else no, Infringement of peoples liberties go on and on.(and I'm a Non-smoker with asthma).

Mostly unenforceable, the Police have enough to do, trying to catch Islamic nutters.

As for feeding kids 'Burgers and chips' I always remember that Tory Pillock Selwyn Gummer, feeding his kid a large hamburger in front of the cameras, trying to prove that eating CJD infected beef was perfectly OK. HE should have been prosecuted by the NSPCC.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Brock - 2015-02-10 11:38 AM

 

I'm anti-smoking and would welcome a total ban. However, I do accept people should have the personal responsibility for their actions rather than the state getting involved in the detail of our lives.

 

 

But unfortunately, people don't take "personal responsibility" do they?

 

.. as soon as little Johnny /Jessica start coughing and wheezing, it'll be the "Nanny State" that's left to fund their lifetime of inhalers, GP/ Hospital appointments and health issues etc....

 

and it doesn't matter what is it - be it poor diet, poor life style(or even irresponsible financial choices) etc- it's always the much maligned "Nanny State", that is then expected to pick up any pieces.... :-S

 

 

[Guest Joe90]

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 12:45 PM

 

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

 

We are Doomed, all Doomed, Mark my words Mr Mainwaring !

[Muswell]

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 12:45 PM

 

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

 

while smoking

[747]

I am not against this new legislation but is that the best that Parliament can offer? There are much more urgent subjects that need addressing than this.

 

Obesity shortens the life quicker than smoking and can cost many more times the cost. As long as unsuitable processed food is readily available, we can forget the smokers.

 

Retrieving the unpaid Tax from HSBC customers will keep a few Hospitals afloat for a year or two.

[Guest Joe90]

Muswell - 2015-02-10 1:01 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 12:45 PM

 

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

 

while smoking

 

and just ignore all the other sh*t they are forced to breath in from your diesel vans and cars.

[pepe63xnotuse]

747 - 2015-02-10 1:06 PM

 

I am not against this new legislation but is that the best that Parliament can offer? There are much more urgent subjects that need addressing than this.

 

Obesity shortens the life quicker than smoking and can cost many more times the cost. As long as unsuitable processed food is readily available, we can forget the smokers.

 

Retrieving the unpaid Tax from HSBC customers will keep a few Hospitals afloat for a year or two.

 

In fairness, I doubt very much that every MPs' working day, is spent working on this... ;-)

[ips]

Had Enough - 2015-02-10 11:39 AM

 

ips - 2015-02-10 11:31 AM

 

I think that anyone stupid enough to smoke in front of children in a confined area is not the sort of person to take any notice of a law that says they cannot.

 

I think you're wrong. Not long ago stupid people would drink and drive. Stupid people wouldn't wear a seat belt. Stupid people would talk on mobile phones when driving. Now most of these stupid people have stopped doing these stupid things. You'll always get a few who'll take a chance, but it is now just a few in the grand scheme of things.

 

Also, social attitudes change and drink driving and using mobiles when driving are now frowned upon by the vast majority of us. Anyone who breaks the law and continues smoking in confined spaces where there are children present will begin to feel the social pressure and will, as in these other examples, stop what they're doing.

 

Exactly the same argument has been used about every piece of similar legislation - stupid people will just carry on. But the evidence is that most of them don't.

 

 

Edited to say: I am not in favour of banning smoking in cars, motorhomes or your own homes. As has been said, if people want to smoke knowing the risks, good luck to them.

 

I'm only talking about smoking in confined places where there are small children present. All the evidence tells us that second-hand smoke has a very deleterious effect on children's health, effects that can be long lasting.

 

I actually believe that we should be able to do anything we like as long as it doesn't affect others or cause the state huge expense. Smokers cause the NHS huge expense but it could be argued that their taxes on fags has contributed a lot of that.

 

I also believe that this thread should be confined to its original question, which is about smoking in vehicles. If anyone wishes to divert it by bringing in other sources of pollution, they should start a new thread on their subject and not try to change the subject of this one.

 

 

Fare and valid points.

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 1:07 PM

 

Muswell - 2015-02-10 1:01 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 12:45 PM

 

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

 

while smoking

 

and just ignore all the other sh*t they are forced to breath in from your diesel vans and cars.

 

What is your 'Earth Shattering' answer then ? for cars it's easy, back to Petrol, For anything bigger though, it's not so easy, Unless we all go to Amercan style 8.5 litre V8 0r V12 'fire breathers' and run them on LPG.

[Den]

It's taking out of context.

 

I'd have thought it was a good idea not to smoke in a MH, how many non smokers would buy a MH smelling of stale tobacco. Thus taking a financial hit.

Yes ban smoking in places that children are. Vehicles are a big problem. Plus it's against the law to eat or use a mobile because the driver is not concentrating on driving. Smoking also causes loss of concentration. Quite simple, those that smoke are some of the worst litter louts. They drop cigarette packets and the cigarette end. Ban it in all vehicles. Simples.

Both my parents smoked and died from smoking related illnesses, I personally from a young age tried to avoid being around them when they were smoking. It's fantastic that the Goverment are outlawing smoking in vehicles while children are on board.

 

Don't forget it is banned in commercial vehicles, company cars while on Buissness , taxis, buses and anywhere the public are in an enclosed area.

[Guest Joe90]

Rayjsj - 2015-02-10 4:29 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 1:07 PM

 

Muswell - 2015-02-10 1:01 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-02-10 12:45 PM

 

The Sunday Times

 

In April this newspaper reported that the tiny particulates from diesel emissions had been found to damage the brains of children, altering the way that they develop and raising the risk of schizophrenia, autism and other conditions. Diesels have also been linked to dangerously high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can cause respiratory problems.

 

Faced with the evidence and strict EU air-quality targets that are in danger of being missed, politicians have switched direction, threatening diesel motorists with a wave of additional charges and taxes. At the end of last month Boris Johnson announced that a new ultra-low-emission zone would be created in central London from 2020. Owners of most existing diesel cars, and some petrol ones, will have to pay an extra £10 to drive there.

 

Other cities are planning their own schemes. Bristol, Birmingham and Leicester have confirmed that they are working on new proposals. Oxford already has a low-emission zone for buses and has said that it will consider expanding regulations to other vehicles. This time next year, after the May general election, the tax regime for cars is also likely to change, penalising diesel drivers further.

Those most at risk are people who own, or are about to buy outright, a new or nearly new diesel car. These are likely to have engines that meet the current emission standards for new cars, which are known as Euro 5. (!)

 

But of course even faced with all this evidence and the health implications especially for children, we reserve the right to continue to drive our motorhomes.

 

while smoking

 

and just ignore all the other sh*t they are forced to breath in from your diesel vans and cars.

 

What is your 'Earth Shattering' answer then ? for cars it's easy, back to Petrol, For anything bigger though, it's not so easy, Unless we all go to Amercan style 8.5 litre V8 0r V12 'fire breathers' and run them on LPG.

 

I thought I covered that a little earlier, if we are really concerned about children and their exposure to noxious and carcinogenic particles perhaps at some point our legislators will ban certain classes of diesel fueled vehicles they consider non essential, with Motorhomes probably being at the top of the list. I'm sure every sensible person would support that especially the Green party, cyclists and pedestrians...........and anyone who REALLY cares about our childrens health.

[Bulletguy]

Den - 2015-02-10 4:53 PM

 

I'd have thought it was a good idea not to smoke in a MH, how many non smokers would buy a MH smelling of stale tobacco. Thus taking a financial hit.

 

Quite funny really as your post reminded me of a Caravan i owned pre-Campervan days. Gorgeous van, super luxury 2Berth coachbuilt Buccaneer.

 

Couldn't have picked a worse time to sell as not long after advertising i got hit with the Flu. Fortunately i'd already cleared the van and spent time cleaning it inside an out.

 

The phone never stopped ringing and i ended up selling it to the first guy that came out. After negotiating a price he commented, "we are glad as this is the first van we've been to see owned by a non-smoker...".

 

I contained my wry but cynical smile within.

 

Because of feeling so ill with Flu i simply hadn't had a 'ciggie' whilst showing them around. Cleaning the van interior i'd just used a 99p can of wax polish and left the windows open. It's surprising what 99pence and a little psychology can do!

[George Collings]

Only fools start smoking and I never have and this is just one more bit of legislation that on the face of it seems a good idea.

 

I just have to wonder if its proposer ever did any research into how many children its ever likely to affect. My money is its hardly four figures and the danger must be related to the length of time exposed. Most camping is summer time and the kids will be outside in daylight.

 

Talk about sledge hammers and nuts.

 

 

[George Collings]

Only fools start smoking and I never have and this is just one more bit of legislation that on the face of it seems a good idea.

 

I just have to wonder if its proposer ever did any research into how many children its ever likely to affect. My money is its hardly four figures and the danger must be related to the length of time exposed. Most camping is summer time and the kids will be outside in daylight.

 

Talk about sledge hammers and nuts.