John J Thompson Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Can anyone confirm that an advertisement has been placed in MMM regarding the readvertisement of the ban on Motorhome parking between 23:00 and 07:00 on Various Roads in Scarborough /Cayton /Filey /Sandsend /Whitby Attached for your information is a copy of a Notice relating to the above proposal, which will appear in the Scarborough News/Whitby Gazette/Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly on 5/6 February 2015, together with copies of the relevant plans. (N.B. These proposals were originally advertised in the Scarborough News/Whitby Gazette in May 2014, with the exception of the A174, Lythe Bank at Sandsend). Please note that any objections or representations should be sent in writing to “Area 3 Whitby Highways Office, Whitby Highways Depot, Discovery Way, Whitby, North Yorkshire YO22 4PZ” or by e-mail to area3.whitby@northyorks.gov.uk and be received by 6th March 2015 Today I received a further email: Please be aware that the consultation period has been extended and comments will be accepted up until the 19th March 2015. http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/motorhomeconsultation NORTH YORKSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL PROPOSED PROHIBITION OF OVERNIGHT PARKING FOR MOTOR CARAVANS BETWEEN 11.00 PM AND 7.00 AM – STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR MAKING PERMANENT TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER Introduction There are a number of attractive sea-front streets within the sea side towns in Scarborough Borough, which in recent years, with the increase in the interest in motor-caravanning, have seen a proliferation in the amount of motor caravans parking and being occupied for a number of nights on the highway. It is considered that the volume of motor caravans seeking access to these streets for this purpose detracts from the amenities of the streets for their residents and other highway users. It is reported that heavily affected sea-side streets often experience one motor caravan being replaced by another.. The County Council is proposing to introduce the proposed Traffic Regulation Order to permanently preserve and address the consequent loss of amenities and to supercede the existing temporary overnight parking restrictions for motor caravans on the roads affected, with the addition of a section of road in Sandsend, which has not been previously covered by a temporary order. Legal Powers The County Council are seeking to make the Order pursuant to Section 1(1)(f) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which allows a traffic authority to make a Traffic Regulation Order where it appears expedient to make it “for preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs”. Section 122 of the 1984 Act also confers a duty on local authorities to exercise the functions contained on them by the Act so as to secure the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of vehicular and other traffic (including pedestrians) and the provision of suitable and adequate parking facilities on and off the highway, having regard to (inter alia) the effect on the amenities of any locality affected and, specifically, the importance of regulating and restricting the use of roads by heavy commercial vehicles, so as to preserve or improve the amenities of the areas through which the roads run. Loss of Amenities The order refers to motor caravans and no other vehicle type as the above losses of amenity are most associated with this category of vehicle and whilst it is appreciated that overnight camping may be undertaken in another category of vehicle, the combination of the amenity issues detailed below are significantly likely to be associated with motor-caravans and therefore it is considered that the overnight prohibition of this category of vehicle will improve the amenity of the affected streets. The specific amenities that the Council considers are impacted upon by the overnight camping of motor caravans are the change in character of a street (from a public highway for all to enjoy, to a camping site), loss of view/sea view for other highway users and particularly for neighbouring properties, noise, litter, extraneous light, and the depositing of waste into highway gullies. The amenities of the area at the various locations will be improved by the proposed Order because during the evenings and into the night it is felt that residents and business owners should reasonably expect some respite from the parking of motor caravans, for sometimes long durations, in these popular affected sea side streets. Residents should have the reasonable right to enjoy the aspect of their properties and the amenities of the area without large vehicles inhabiting the street adjacent to and in close proximity to their homes, (which in the locations includes, as an amenity, a sea-side aspect). The amenities are further detracted from through over-night parking of such vehicles due to the impact upon some public services (including road sweeping and waste emptying that overnight camping brings with it). Further to this, by restricting access at night it ensures that there is a turnover in the spaces taken by such vehicles and ensures they do not park, for sometimes more than a week, outside individual properties. There are many other locations in Scarborough Borough where motor caravans may continue to park unrestricted on the publicly maintainable highway. The proposed prohibition would cover locations which, prior to the introduction of the temporary orders referred to above, tended to attract motor caravans plus a further section of road in Sandsend that has not been previously covered by a temporary order, yet reportedly experiences similar problems with amenities being affected by motor-caravans. Overnight occupancy of motor caravans on the highway fundamentally alters the nature of the highway in these locations, with negative consequences. The overnight occupancy of motor caravans means that the individuals residing in the vehicle are temporarily dwelling in the location, and in close proximity to the curtilage of properties that adjoin the highway. This can impact upon the rights of the permanent residents to enjoyment of their property, and their privacy. The overnight occupancy of motor caravans generates noise, sometimes within close proximity to residential properties which can be anti-social for permanent residents. The overnight occupancy of motor vehicles on the highway, in locations which do not include appropriate facilities for camping, can lead to inappropriate use of highway gullies and drains for the depositing of waste. The effective “camping” on the highway also generates larger volumes of refuse, beyond the normal amounts of litter generated by those visiting the location for a short-stay. This refuse can be deposited in public litter bins, a purpose for which they are not designed, and a seasonal high volume of waste has historically been experienced in the various locations, which can cause spillages onto the highway and may necessitate the Borough Council increasing its cleansing schedule, to allow the for the bins to be used by day trippers as intended. Overnight occupancy of motor caravans can increase the level of lighting on the highway during the hours of darkness. This is undesirable because it can be distracting for highway users and anti-social in locations which are in close proximity to nearby residential properties. It is acknowledged that a 24 hour prohibition of motor caravans would be needed to ensure the amenities referred to above remain completely unaffected, however the Authority does not wish to completely remove the opportunity for those with motor-caravans to access these locations. Conclusion The 1984 Act makes it clear that the “amenities” to be preserved or improved are those of the area through which the road(s) run(s) and the County Council acknowledges that there is a balance to be struck between the interests of any class of road users, the interests of other classes of road users and the interests of streetward residents. Not all amenities of the area would be preserved, as one of the amenities is the 24 hour use of the affected streets by motor caravans, which would be prevented by the Order. The County Council also acknowledges that the current temporary overnight parking restrictions were introduced for environmental reasons to aid in the prevention of occupants of motor caravans depositing waste onto the highway and that there are other legal remedies available to tackle this specific issue, but that there are nonetheless additional factors (specified above) which all combine to affect the amenities of the area affected. As stated above, there are many other locations in Scarborough Borough where motor caravans may continue to park unrestricted on the publicly maintainable highway and the Council do not consider it necessary to provide additional dedicated parking places for motor caravans. It is the amenities of the area which on balance are required to be considered as preserved or improved and the County Council takes the view that the proposed Order would be expedient in achieving the purpose of ”preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs” in line with the provisions of the 1984 Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabino Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks for the heads up. I have replied online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi, I wonder if they are going to provide alternative motorhome overnight access elsewhere in their patch, or are the happy to lose any income that motorhomers might be bringing to their area.. I can sympathise with local residents, and say shame on those motorhomers who are guilty or littering and droping there waste etc... I wont be going there myself,. tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I presume the litter deposited has been DNA tested and come up "Motorhome user" ......................ordinary visitors never drop litter obviously, and yet the UK is drowning under the stuff. although I do think some folk take the proverbial by parking up for days on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Have just filled in the survey, at least it is only Overnight parking, the places I hate have daytime parking restrictions as well. The very reason I had to resort to towing my car on an A-Frame. The UK a place with far too many laws, and laws that the REAL lawbreakers completely ignore ie. 'So called' travellers who Take over a Schools playing field, or a Supermarket Car park, or indeed wherever their 'mood' takes them. Are they immediatley arrested for Trepass and criminal damage ?? nah, it's their ''Uman rights' to be able to s**t in the street, aint it. And we Mugs stand for it. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-02-13 8:02 PM The UK a place with far too many laws, Really, and how many more laws than France or Italy do we have for instance? You've clearly never had experience of dealing with French or Italian bureaucracy. If you had you may well stop spouting this kind of prejudiced ill-informed rubbish. There, that only took two minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-02-13 8:41 PM Rayjsj - 2015-02-13 8:02 PM The UK a place with far too many laws, Really, and how many more laws than France or Italy do we have for instance? You've clearly never had experience of dealing with French or Italian bureaucracy. If you had you may well stop spouting this kind of prejudiced ill-informed rubbish. There, that only took two minutes! Sell a house in France with a septic tank and you now need a certificate to show it conforms with new regulations. A conspiracy by bureaucrats to line the pockets of greedy surveyors and annoy innocent householders...nothing to do with public health :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-02-13 8:41 PM Rayjsj - 2015-02-13 8:02 PM The UK a place with far too many laws, Really, and how many more laws than France or Italy do we have for instance? You've clearly never had experience of dealing with French or Italian bureaucracy. If you had you may well stop spouting this kind of prejudiced ill-informed rubbish. There, that only took two minutes! My prejudice is against laws that seem to ignore the 'Blatant incorigable' lawbreakers, as per my example, and yet swoops on a wildcamper, who stays one night, leaves no rubbish, and then moves on. Yet ignores the 'Traveller' who defacates in the woods, destroys fences, refuses to move until a court order is served, by which time the whole area is under a sea of litter and faecees. Actually Frank I love the UK, am fond of the Caravan Club AND the wardens. I just hate Law for laws sake, and Blatant lawbreakers being ignored to chase minor infringements. there, about 4 mins. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Muswell - 2015-02-13 8:52 PM Sell a house in France with a septic tank and you now need a certificate to show it conforms with new regulations. A conspiracy by bureaucrats to line the pockets of greedy surveyors and annoy innocent householders...nothing to do with public health :-D You ought to try putting in a swimming pool. They now have to have a fence around them so that any unwatched little darlings don't fall in and drown. And get on the wrong side of the local mayor and you've had it for ever! Some people have no idea at all of the level of bureaucracy in most European countries. In Germany for instance if you were baptised as a child, when you become taxpayer you have to pay an annual church tax to support the religion you were baptised in, even though you may never attend a church. The only way to avoid it is to pay a large fee to legally void your membership of the church and become a state-registered atheist. Then of course you are forbidden from marrying, baptising your children or having a funeral service in a church. We get a lot of this silly 'Britain has too many laws' nonsense. Usually from people who have no idea whatsoever of how many laws we have. All they have is an antipathy to government and a knee-jerk reaction to legislation that they don't care for. However, pass a law that they approve of or suits them, and and there's never a mention of 'too many laws'. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-02-13 8:57 PM My prejudice is against laws that seem to ignore the 'Blatant incorigable' lawbreakers, as per my example, and yet swoops on a wildcamper, who stays one night, leaves no rubbish, and then moves on. Yet ignores the 'Traveller' who defacates in the woods, destroys fences, refuses to move until a court order is served, by which time the whole area is under a sea of litter and faecees. You've got it the wrong way round. Laws don't ignore certain sections of society. Certain sections of society often choose to ignore laws. So your answer to this is to abandon the laws in the first place and let these people just do what they want? Have you forgotten Dale Farm, where the law eventually won and moved on the illegal travellers? And this is happening every week in Britain. Councils get court orders and move on gypsies and travellers. Sometimes it takes a few days or even weeks, but eventually it happens. But your cunning plan would be to abolish these laws I suppose? So what we're actually arriving at is that you really have no idea whatsoever whether Britain has too many laws, you just get uptight because some laws are being broken, but then you moan that a wild camper who may be breaking a law is moved on. Make up your mind please. And I've wild camped in many places in the U.K. and lots in Scotland and guess what? I've never been moved on. Anyway, let's have a few examples of laws that are only enacted for law's sake. I can't think of any but I'm sure that you'll have a long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Just an ironic observation..........last year four "traveller" families with caravans arrived on our pay and display car park, a car park that has clearly defined parking regulations on a large notice board, with no overnight sleeping / camping signs, and penalties for non compliance with the regulations. Despite the best efforts of both our local community council, and county council they were there a total of 8 weeks without penalty...........they eventually moved on, leaving the area in a disgusting state, only to set up camp 8 miles down the road on another pay and display car park controlled by Parking Eye, who are infamous for giving out £100 parking charge notices if you stay over two hours, they were there also for a similar length of time, one occasion no doubt that Parking eye getting the registered owner details from DVLA led them nowhere. Makes you wonder who's the mug some times, and it would certainly seem to be the case that the law held no fear for them even down to the fact that none of their caravans had number plates, and yet the Police happily waved them on their way when they finally got them shifted :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-02-13 9:37 PM Just an ironic observation..........last year four "traveller" families with caravans arrived on our pay and display car park, a car park that has clearly defined parking regulations on a large notice board, with no overnight sleeping / camping signs, and penalties for non compliance with the regulations. Despite the best efforts of both our local community council, and county council they were there a total of 8 weeks without penalty...........they eventually moved on, leaving the area in a disgusting state, only to set up camp 8 miles down the road on another pay and display car park controlled by Parking Eye, who are infamous for giving out £100 parking charge notices if you stay over two hours, they were there also for a similar length of time, one occasion no doubt that Parking eye getting the registered owner details from DVLA led them nowhere. Makes you wonder who's the mug some times, and it would certainly seem to be the case that the law held no fear for them even down to the fact that none of their caravans had number plates, and yet the Police happily waved them on their way when they finally got them shifted :-S I have no truck with these scum, they're a blight on our country and I would have even tougher laws if I were ruler of the world! But you have to ask yourself why they moved on. It was probably because the local council had eventually managed to get an injunction and could force them off. In other words, the law may not be perfect, but it was probably the law that got rid of them in the end. But if people like Rayjsj think that we have too many laws, presumably he would be angry if Parliament enacted even more laws, which would enable councils to act more swiftly or even jail the perpetrators? It's as I said, the people who constantly whinge about the 'nanny state' or 'too many laws' or 'laws for laws' sake' actually keep silent when a law is passed, of which they approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-02-13 9:37 PM Just an ironic observation..........last year four "traveller" families with caravans arrived on our pay and display car park, a car park that has clearly defined parking regulations on a large notice board, with no overnight sleeping / camping signs, and penalties for non compliance with the regulations. Despite the best efforts of both our local community council, and county council they were there a total of 8 weeks without penalty...........they eventually moved on, leaving the area in a disgusting state, only to set up camp 8 miles down the road on another pay and display car park controlled by Parking Eye, who are infamous for giving out £100 parking charge notices if you stay over two hours, they were there also for a similar length of time, one occasion no doubt that Parking eye getting the registered owner details from DVLA led them nowhere. Makes you wonder who's the mug some times, and it would certainly seem to be the case that the law held no fear for them even down to the fact that none of their caravans had number plates, and yet the Police happily waved them on their way when they finally got them shifted :-S You and I have to obey the law. If we so much as park on a yellow line, they can fine us. If we don't pay they can add massive legal charges and send in baliffs to seize our goods, freeze our bank accounts etc. But 'travellers' permanently living in their vehicles have nothing the council can get their hands on. If councils seize their vehicles the council is legally obliged to rehouse them, at great expense, because they have children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-02-13 9:10 PM Have you forgotten Dale Farm, where the law eventually won and moved on the illegal travellers? Moved the problem on to somewhere else. A problem largely created by Governments policies forcing up house prices beyond the reach of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 No one has answered my question. Has an add appeared in MMM and if so when. I am in Spain at present so getting my hands on a copy is impossible. The online version takes up too much data to use out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Dunno John, but I'd put your energies into something else, even though your aims are laudable ...............or just keep heading over the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 For Your Information ( F,Y,I. ) https://andystrangewayovernightparkingcampaigner.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertieburstner Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 John yes the advert from North Yorkshire County Council is on page 124 of the March 2015 edition of MMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Robert Goodwill --- MP for Scarborough & Whitby was the parliamentery under secretary of state for transport in 2013 just about when the signs when up ---- http://www.robertgoodhttps://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/parliamentary-under-secretary-of-state--30will.co.uk/ --- http://www.robertgoodwill.co.uk/ ---- please post your view on this e-coultation http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/motorhomeconsultation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Parking pedestrian areas11 feb 2015 HANSARD WRITTEN ANSWERS http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2015-02-06.223702.h&m=40519#g223702.r0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=parking+motorhomes ---- the caravan & motorhome industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheasantplucker Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Taking that to its logical conclusion, turn up at 7am and get your head down for a few hours before breakfast at lunch time and an afternoon fishing or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 bertieburstner - 2015-02-14 12:14 PM John yes the advert from North Yorkshire County Council is on page 124 of the March 2015 edition of MMM. Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the delay but I have had lots of problems getting back online here in Spain. It was OK until the winds started and we lost the service. I have had to move 50km to find a working connection on Orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 only one day to go --- https://consult.northyorks.gov.uk/snapwebhost/s.asp?k=142315541185 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Simple solution. Goodbye Cayton Bay, Filey, Whitby, Scarborough and Sandsend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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