Motorman Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hi everyone. I am a relative newcomer to motorhoming. I have an 04 Autocruise Starblazer with a large garage and a transverse rear bed. In most respects it gives me all I want - good storage, a comfortable lounge area with opposite facing settees, good kitchen, but the bed area is a bit claustrophobic and my wife would like a separate shower area. I have been looking for a replacement with twin beds over a garage but they all seem to come with a dinette arrangement with belted seats rather than opposite facing bench seats. As it is only the two of us we don't need the restriction of more belted seats. Does anyone know of a make and model that might meet our needs without going too far over the 22 foot, 3.5 tonne level? Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. And if someone involved in motorhome manufacture reads this, why isn't the industry building this kind of layout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynneroy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The good news is that there definitely is one, I just cannot remember by whom, so I will have a look see if I can find it for you. Lynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Autotrail Miami s (single beds). Or Savannah .We have the Savannah.We also found that many Continental vans rule themselves out by having dinettes rather than facing settees. Welcome to the forum and good luck in your search.Remember 'layout' is first and foremost. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynneroy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Sorry I had seen the Swift Rio 320 but it is no good for you, no garage under and has a tailgate door, waste of space. I will keep looking. Lynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Rapido. http://www.rapido-motorhome.co.uk/prod.php?ref=666&serie=6 Also some earlier models one that a pal of mine ( since deceased) had one that sounds as though it would tick all your boxes, but I cannot remember the exact model number he had. If you're in the market for new I believe they offer a bespoke service, although I do not know the full scope of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorman Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Thanks everyone for the advice. It's good to know there's something out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorman Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I found a fleurette migrateur slb on the net but it was sold. It doesn't tick all my boxes but I liked what I saw. Anyone thinking of selling one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Fleurette motorhomes (particularly RHD versions) will be rare in the UK and – as far as I’m aware – there is no UK agent for them at present. If the vehicle you saw on-line was a Migrateur 72SLB as shown here http://www.somersetmotorhomecentre.co.uk/used-motorhome-fleurette-migrateur-72-slb-motorhome-360 it fails to meet your desirability criteria in two areas – the bed is still the transverse over-garage ‘claustrophobic’ type and the vehicle’s length hovers on 24 feet. If the layout included twin single beds instead of the crossways double, the length would increase to well over 25 feet. There are current motorhomes that (on paper) come closer to your requirements, but none of them are particularly short. Realistically, if your ‘must haves’ comprise a large garage, twin fixed single beds, a bathroom with separate shower area, a good size kitchen (big fridge, oven?) and two longish inwards-facing settees, you’ll need to accept that the result will not be a short vehicle. You asked why the motorhome industry is not building the layout you want. The industry does build models with that layout, but the layout isn’t the problem in your case, it’s your “without going too far over the 22 foot” wish that’s the stumbling-block. For example, the Laika Kreos 7009 has the right layout http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/laika-kreos-7009-a-class-motorhome-review-4112/ but it’s long, expensive (you haven’t said anything about budget) and would probably have minimal payload at 3500kg. The Rapido 666 model Joe90 mentioned earlier http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/products/motorhomes/HCCQF5303/2014-rapido-serie-6-666 would be a better bet at 3500kg, but its length is still over 24’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It's neigh on an impossibility to get rear singles & forward inward facing lounge in a 22ft motorhome. our Adria Sport has rear singles over garage, with a forward 1/2 dinette & comes in at 6.6m (21ft 8in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-03-07 9:38 AM Fleurette motorhomes (particularly RHD versions) will be rare in the UK and – as far as I’m aware – there is no UK agent for them at present. If the vehicle you saw on-line was a Migrateur 72SLB as shown here http://www.somersetmotorhomecentre.co.uk/used-motorhome-fleurette-migrateur-72-slb-motorhome-360 it fails to meet your desirability criteria in two areas – the bed is still the transverse over-garage ‘claustrophobic’ type and the vehicle’s length hovers on 24 feet. If the layout included twin single beds instead of the crossways double, the length would increase to well over 25 feet. There are current motorhomes that (on paper) come closer to your requirements, but none of them are particularly short. Realistically, if your ‘must haves’ comprise a large garage, twin fixed single beds, a bathroom with separate shower area, a good size kitchen (big fridge, oven?) and two longish inwards-facing settees, you’ll need to accept that the result will not be a short vehicle. You asked why the motorhome industry is not building the layout you want. The industry does build models with that layout, but the layout isn’t the problem in your case, it’s your “without going too far over the 22 foot” wish that’s the stumbling-block. For example, the Laika Kreos 7009 has the right layout http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/laika-kreos-7009-a-class-motorhome-review-4112/ but it’s long, expensive (you haven’t said anything about budget) and would probably have minimal payload at 3500kg. The Rapido 666 model Joe90 mentioned earlier http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/products/motorhomes/HCCQF5303/2014-rapido-serie-6-666 would be a better bet at 3500kg, but its length is still over 24’. The Kreos 7009 doesn't have 'two longish inward facing settees'. It has a short/single seat on the RH side and a typical European apology for an inward facing seat on the LH side, with a squab shallow enough to render it useless. The Rapido 666 'lounge' is even more stunted; none of its seats could reasonably be called a settee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 raised rear single beds over a large garage are a rarity in uk motorhomes, so continental vans will likely as not, have a dinette style lounge. our Carthago has this layout, albeit with a wet room type bathroom so no seperate shower, but we find the lounge very usable despite coming from a twin sofa layout. any rear single bed van will, by sheer logic, be at least 50cm longer than a transverse bed equivalent. add in a seperate split washroom and you will be adding even more length. to have a large twin sofa lounge, split washroom and longitudinal single beds, you cant escape a longish MH. some vans are shorter, but will lose the split washroom, or the open lounge.....see hymer exsis or Carthago Compactline, but these are also narrower which you may not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Steve928 - 2015-03-07 8:58 PM The Kreos 7009 doesn't have 'two longish inward facing settees'. It has a short/single seat on the RH side and a typical European apology for an inward facing seat on the LH side, with a squab shallow enough to render it useless. The Rapido 666 'lounge' is even more stunted; none of its seats could reasonably be called a settee. What I was trying to emphasise was that, if the "without going too far over the 22 foot, 3.5 tonne level” wish takes priority, it won’t be practicable to obtain the layout implied by the other criteria. On that basis, the question "Does anyone know of a make and model that might meet our needs?” is easily answered by “No, there aren’t any.” The Laika or Kreos vehicles are examples of models that MIGHT be considered to meet Motorman’s requirements, but they are both a good deal longer than 22 foot. Remove the length limitation (and ignore cost) and there will be current motorhomes with the layout Motorman specified. As you rightly point out, the Laika and Rapido ‘settees’ aren’t enormous (hence my use of the word “longish”) but if the seats were longer each vehicle’s already well over 22 feet length would be longer still. What motorhome would you suggest to meet Motorman’s needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 short answer.....there aren't any...... next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorman Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Hi all it's been fascinating to see the discussion my query has started. And it has saved me a huge amount of research time, so thank you all. It's also come up with van models that we didn't find when searching the web. Now we just have to decide which of the 'must haves' we can compromise on. I would lose the separate shower but someone doesn't agree with me on that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Must admit my 2 suggestions (Autotrail Miami 740S and Savannah) are both well over 22 ' and over 3500kg. All the others tend to have the Dinettes for the extra seat belts, Even the Savannah has them as an option. Not That I would want them. Hmmmm, bit of a 'Tardis' required. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-03-08 10:09 AM What motorhome would you suggest to meet Motorman’s needs? I don't have any suggestions I'm afraid as, having looked at longitudinal rear bed models myself, I have always found the forward end accomodation to be 'squeezed', for obvious reasons. My surprise was rather why you would offer as possibilities two models, the 7009 and 666, which clearly didn't provide the type of lounge that the OP was interested in. The Kreos 7009 isn't even the best example from the Laika range; the cheaper 4009 coachbuilt offers a larger lounge more akin to the OP's requirements along with the same bed arrangement and within the same overall length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Steve928 - 2015-03-08 7:41 PM Derek Uzzell - 2015-03-08 10:09 AM What motorhome would you suggest to meet Motorman’s needs? I don't have any suggestions I'm afraid as, having looked at longitudinal rear bed models myself, I have always found the forward end accomodation to be 'squeezed', for obvious reasons. My surprise was rather why you would offer as possibilities two models, the 7009 and 666, which clearly didn't provide the type of lounge that the OP was interested in. The Kreos 7009 isn't even the best example from the Laika range; the cheaper 4009 coachbuilt offers a larger lounge more akin to the OP's requirements along with the same bed arrangement and within the same overall length. In his original posting Motorman said that one of the attributes of his present 2004 Autocruise Starblazer was "a comfortable lounge area with opposite facing settees”. For a replacement motorhome he implied that he would be looking for "opposite facing bench seats”. While it might be assumed that Motorman would want settees at least equal in length to those in his Stargazer, that’s not what he said and, in fact, the Fleurette model I assumed he was referring to does not have the Stargazer’s twin settee layout. The Laika Kreos 7009 lacks the Stargazer’s settee-based front lounge, but its lounge layout resembles that of the Fleurette. The Rapido 666 (originally suggested by Joe90 not me) definitely does not have “settees”, but it does have "opposite facing bench seats”. That it’s potentially ‘better’ than the Laika is because the 666 is likely to still have a reasonable amount of payload at 3500kg MTPLM, whereas a 3.5-tonne Kreos 7009’s payload would be marginal at best - the ‘betterness’ has nothing to do with the seating layout. I agree that the Kreos 4009 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/Reviews/Motorhomes/Laika-Kreos-4009-motorhome-review/_ch1_rw1258_pg1 would be a better bet settee-wise, but it’s still 24’ 7” long and will have limited payload at 3500kg. I probably have sufficient information to suggest current (or relatively recent) motorhomes that should meet any set of realistic requirements. But there’s little point attempting that exercise if those suggestions identify vehicles costing, say, £50k minimum and the maximum budget turns out to be £35k. It would then be necessary to look at what was available several years ago and that’s a lot more time-consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 We have a Pilote Explorateur 715fj with washroom across the back. It is a 2007 .inward facing settees that at a sqeeze seat 2. Single beds. It is just over 7m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm a bit like the OP in wanting inward facing settees, and a separate shower. Would have liked two singles over a garage as well, but length or "continental" layouts got in the way. What I thought was a good compromise was the Autotrail Apache 632. Settees and shower, tick. But the main bed is a transverse rear double, and not a very wide one at that. It is over a reasonable storage area though. However, it occurred to me that we could use the rear double as a spacious single, and make another wide single out of the settees. All the bedding could live quite happily on the rear bed. Sadly, it was just an idea, as the other thing that keeps getting in the way is money - lack of. Good luck to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Randonneur’s Pilote meets quite a few of Motorman’s requirements, but it will be apparent from the photos here http://francoise.urruela.over-blog.com/article-ilote-61693438.html that the rear-located bathroom rules out a genuine ‘garage’ (ie. storage where full-size bikes or a scooter might be carried). The logical habitation layout for Motorman would involve a pair of longways high-set single beds at the rear with a large garage beneath, then (coming forward) a toilet/wash-basin area on one side and a shower on the other, then an L-shaped kitchen with a big fridge and entrance-door opposite, then the two long settees with a table between. But the result will inevitably be a 25 feet minimum vehicle length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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