d20wns Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hi All I have a 2005 (at least i think it is) Frankie. The leisure battery has ballooned, there is a solar panel on the roof and a control panel inside there is no lights on the control panel, there is a red switch adjacent to the control panel i'm not sure if the switch is for the solar panel or not, i can't remember if the switch was on or off at the time i realized i had a problem with the battery and i don't know if there is a charging regulator connected to the solar panel. I have loads of photos which i will try to upload after sending this post. Regards Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Sounds like the battery has overheated. Now take a deep breath and tell exactly what your problem is. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d20wns Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hi Peter Thanks for your interest in my problem. Sorry for the short post last night i was hoping to put some photo's on to show the damage, control panel ect, but was unable to load any photos, help with uploading pic's would be a great help. I noticed a while ago that the step was struggling to operate but put it down to the fact that we hadn't been out for a couple of months. After having a week in Cornwall we still had the same problem. after checking the leisure battery we found that it had ballooned (possibly over charge), now the solar panel which i know nothing about has a Fox control panel, there is no display reading and no lights, there is a red switch adjacent to the control panel (the reason i say red switch is that may have a bearing on the solar panel controls) and i don't know if this switch was in the off or on position, so it could of been on for some time and over charged the leisure battery and blown the fuse in the solar panel control, is this switch to turn the solar panel off and if so for what purpose. If someone can first guide me to including some pics, this would be great and maybe help to explain the situation a bit better. As with any situations like this i don't want to put another battery on and replace any fuses without Knowing and rectifying the problem Thanks for your help Cheers Rich :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Firstly I would disconnect the leisure battery to avoid it splitting or going bang as neither is a pretty sight and quite apart from the very real risk of injury or acid burns you really do not want acid everywhere in the van. Secondly I would get a new battery fitted so that any voltage measurements taken relate to that and not a kaput battery, but I would not leave the new battery connected permanently until the rest of the system is proven to be safe and correct. You need to ascertain whether your solar panel has a regulator as the unregulated solar panel output is often around 20 v and that direct input will destroy the battery in very short order. If you have a digital multi meter you can check the regulated input voltage at the battery which should be somewhere in the 14 v area when the solar panel is charging. You can also check the unregulated solar panel output where it feds the regulator. If not it maybe worth getting a cheap one off Amazon as they are very handy! You might also take the opportunity to check all the fuses and the onboard charger input, probably around 14.0 v when on mains and the engine alternator charge at around 14.4 v, with the engine running. The battery at rest with no load - that means disconnected from everything - when fully charged is around 12.7 / 12.8 volts and this will gradually fall away over a few days to around 12.6 ish volts. With respect, if you feel unable or unsure about any of this I would suggest disconnecting the leisure battery, insulating and loose leads and taking the van to a decent auto electrician for diagnosis as there are powerful forces in motion here and a lot of damage or severe injury can be done by doing the wrong thing. Let us know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 d20wns - 2015-03-17 12:00 PM Hi Peter Thanks for your interest in my problem. Sorry for the short post last night i was hoping to put some photo's on to show the damage, control panel ect, but was unable to load any photos, help with uploading pic's would be a great help. :-( To load photos you have to reduce the resolution to less than 100 kbs ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Tracker - 2015-03-17 12:14 PM Firstly I would disconnect the leisure battery to avoid it splitting or going bang as neither is a pretty sight and quite apart from the very real risk of injury or acid burns you really do not want acid everywhere in the van. Secondly I would get a new battery fitted so that any voltage measurements taken relate to that and not a kaput battery, but I would not leave the new battery connected permanently until the rest of the system is proven to be safe and correct. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You need to ascertain whether your solar panel has a regulator as the unregulated solar panel output is often around 20 v and that direct input will destroy the battery in very short order. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have a digital multi meter you can check the regulated input voltage at the battery which should be somewhere in the 14 v area when the solar panel is charging. You can also check the unregulated solar panel output where it feds the regulator. If not it maybe worth getting a cheap one off Amazon as they are very handy! You might also take the opportunity to check all the fuses and the onboard charger input, probably around 14.0 v when on mains and the engine alternator charge at around 14.4 v, with the engine running. The battery at rest with no load - that means disconnected from everything - when fully charged is around 12.7 / 12.8 volts and this will gradually fall away over a few days to around 12.6 ish volts. With respect, if you feel unable or unsure about any of this I would suggest disconnecting the leisure battery, insulating and loose leads and taking the van to a decent auto electrician for diagnosis as there are powerful forces in motion here and a lot of damage or severe injury can be done by doing the wrong thing Just to recap, 20v input from the solar panel is a bit misleading or am I reading it wrong. Let us know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikkistash Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I cant help with battery issue but I can help.with the picture problem. I have had to post a few pics recently and I used the below link to resize them to 100k http://jpeg-optimizer.com/ Its very simple to use and self explanatory, I used it on my phone, iPad and Pc. Hope you get it sorted out. Regards Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 rolandrat - 2015-03-17 3:04 PM Just to recap, 20v input from the solar panel is a bit misleading or am I reading it wrong. ] I don't know for sure? I do know that the raw unregulated output from my 50 w solar panel is about 20 v (can be 22 v in strong sunlight) which is why I use a regulator! This may or may not be true of all solar panels as I have only ever had one so if anyone knows now would be a good time to inform us all please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Sounds like a simple case of the battery being used why beyond its end of life possibly not helped by lack of topping it up. Anyway as others have mentioned disconnect it and remove from vehicle to a safe place of storage before disposal. insulate the positive lead so it does not short to anything. You need a new battery and easier to check out all is in order with the electrics once you have a new battery. I suggest you get an autoelectician to do basic voltage checks and make sure charging voltages are correct. If you feel confident enough to do yourself we ( as in forum members) can guide you once you have a voltmeter. What would be useful to know is what the make/model/capacity of the failed battery is and then the forum can also assist on suggested replacements. Somewhere there should be a solar charge regulator but might be part of the habitation contol unit. So what make/model is your control panel/unit. You may find the solar regulator near to it as a separate unit or near the battery but certainly somewhere the wiring from the solar panel should go to it. If the Solar panel is wired directly to the battery without a regulator then you will need to sort that out as well as a new battery. If you get stuck with posting pictures you can always upload to a picture hosting site such as tinypic and then post links to the pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d20wns Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hi thanks for the info Peter i will get my multi meter out and start investigating before i put any fuses our battery back on and i will let you know how i get on. there has been a 240 Volt retro system fitted at some point with a 2500 Watt inverter and i wasn't sure if this had contributed to the problem, I've only run a small 240 Volt TV and satalite box I'm trying to upload some pics of my problem, so I hope these comes out OK. Again thanks for your time and i will update when I've had another look. Cheers Rich PS Just a quick note, am i OK uploading pics this size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d20wns Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hope these pics can throw a bit more light on the matter. The wiring is a bit of a pigs ear and that's why i was a bit dubious about tackling the problem and i'm not sure what a charging regulator looks like. I do think the solar panel is directly linked to the battery and the red switch Iv'e mentioned before, is to isolate the panel from the battery. I will update when I've done a bit of investigation Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If you are running a 2500 watt inverter off of one tired leisure battery I doubt it will work very well depending on what wattage appliance you use. You may know this but a 1000 watt appliance will take 4.4 amps at mains voltage of 230, but that same 1000 watts at 12 volts is over 83 amps - and that does not allow some 10% for system inefficiency - so on that basis the loads on wiring and battery etc especially at the higher wattage are quite extreme. Sorry can't help with the wiring as one would need to follow it all through checking voltages as you go to see what connect to what and to ensure that it makes a joined up system. There may be nothing wrong at all except for a knackered and abused battery so a new battery would be my first priority and then start checking. Meanwhile I would leave it disconnected with the cable terminals covered to prevent shorting if it were mine! A solar charging regulator is often a small box with the input lead from the solar panel and the output leads to the battery but it may be that yours is inbuilt into the control panel and box. Either way tracing the solar panel output cable from the roof should lead you to it? Don't disconnect the regulator output without first disconnecting the panel input as a 'no load' input could damage the regulator. If in doubt don't - go see an auto electrician! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Pictires always speak a thousand words! Your FOX250 is yoru solar charger/regulator. It also looks like a Chinese 200Ah GEL battery and teh solar regulator is not actually suitable fr charging gel batteries so here may lie one of the problems. I am not even sure of teh battery is suitable for alternator charging or even teh heavy load of a 2500watt invertor and hogh current drain on eteh battery. You get different types of gel battery so more detaols of the battery are required. I suspect it is NX or Victron branded but could be any number of rebranded batteries but does look like an NX. Got quite a nice project on your hands here tidying up the wiring and working out what you are going to replace the battery with. There is a box there with a note taped to it. Not sure what it is but may be some autoswitcher for 240 volts to be selected from the inverter when hook up is disconnected. So it needs checking out. You need to decide what you want from the system, power demands etc. and then decide what size batteries you can fit in available space along with deciding what capacity you actually need. You may have room to fit two standard 90 to 115 Ah batteries and if you wish to keep the FOX250 solar charger then flooded batteries are the way to go and not Gel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Wouldn't it be possible to contact the previous owner to get a bit more information regarding the electrics. A good auto electrician should be able to come up with some answers. You have to question why a 2500 amp inverter is fitted. Was there another battery fitted elsewhere previously? I once owned an A class Hymer and the wiring looms behind the dash was like a birds nest, an electricians nightmare to fathom out when a problem cropped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Please remove any rings from your fingers while working with batteries. I once witnessed a very nasty accident with a ring and spanner shorting the two terminals. Very very nasty (!) (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Always disconnect negative 1st, and reconnect negative last. This minimises the risk of shorting the battery via a spanner touching the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think Pigs Ear is a pretty apt description by the pictures. I would favour removing everything and starting again. Whatever you may add to mix in with what you have would only make it more confusing (and dangerous) I get the impression that past users have added items without any thought. Cost is nothing versus safety ! Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Just come across this Maplin dual output solar regulator. http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/12v-16a-dual-solar-charge-regulator-n35hg Might not be what this case needs but others may find it useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Tracker - 2015-03-20 10:09 AM Just come across this Maplin dual output solar regulator. http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/12v-16a-dual-solar-charge-regulator-n35hg Might not be what this case needs but others may find it useful? Had a look and difficult to find any proper specs, but it uses the base plate of the unit as the heatsink so needs to be mounted on a metal plate/surface to act as a heat sink. The base can otherwise reach temperatures of 75 deg C. Not a good idea to mount on a wood surface. Strikes me this is a linear regulator and not a pulse mode digital regulator so will not be very efficient. I could be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thanks for that insight Jon - perhaps it was not such a good idea after all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d20wns Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi All Thanks for all the input. I've just lost all my post before i had time to send it, so this is the diluted version. i'm going to take my time, one step at a time. Firstly the solar panel. All looks good on the roof, the feed to the solar terminal on my fox 750 is reading 19.41 Volys the battery connection is reading 2.32 Volts, the wire down to the battery is reading 2.32 Volts st the battery terminals. There is no readings on the control panels, it's just blanks. Can anyone confirm the readings are in the right ball park,would it be wise to fit a fuse to the live wire close to the battery terminal and if so what amp. The next step i'm going to take is the inverter. Again thanks for your input Cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The voltage output from the solar panel after it has been regulated down from 19.4 volts should be in the order of 13.8 - 14.4 volts and if you are not able to identify the output cable the same reading should apply at the battery when the panel is charging. When the panel is not charging like at night the voltage at the battery, with everything switched off, should be around 12.6 - 12.8 volts and the nearer the higher figure the better able the battery is to hold it's charge. If your battery is showing, if I understand what you said correctly, 2.32 volts having been on charge all day and every day from the solar it is knackered quite possibly beyond salvation, but nevertheless still worth taking it off, checking the electrolyte level and bench charging it with a decent multi stage charger for at least 24 hours just in case it can survive, but it is a long shot. If the panel is shoving out over 19 volts and nothing is getting to the battery it may be a fault in the regulator and rather than change a very expensive control box it might be more cost effective to install a separate solar panel regulator. Personally I would have a fuse on any wiring in and out of the battery just in case something goes pop. With a long posting it can help to post part of it and then add to it by editing but you only have 30 mins once the initial posting is made and then it is locked. Or you can cut and copy holding what you have on the clipboard and paste it if you lose it. There may be other solutions and if so doubtless someone will soon tell us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The advice was to disconnect the battrey and dispose of it and hopefully you do not reconnect to test the solar charger. The battery probably wil have some shorted cells and so any readings will be meaningless. This is way I suggested 1st thing to do is decide what batteries you need/want and get them. Then you can test the solar panel system. However you can get around this my connecting the output of the solar regulator to your engine battery and then test the output voltages. If no battery is connnected to the solar charger then it does not function. see https://www.sunware.de/sunware/static/reglers_pdf/InFx250_V2002.pdf for manual. Its in English as well as German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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