extrab Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Having purchased an Adria Sonic in March 2013,new it came as a complete surprise to find that I am unable to get new tyres as they are no longer available. The vehicle was available ex stock[ already in the UK] as I couldn't wait the 4/5 months lead time for one to my own specification. Among the extras fitted to the vehicle were alloy wheels and tyres sized 255/55 R17 C 116/118.At no time was I advised these were non standard . After 15 months use I noticed that I had taken a slither of rubber off of one of the rear tyres. At this point my troubles began. I decided to check the web to find the best price and was alarmed to discover that no tyres of this size and rating were available from any manufacturer, the Vanco 2 fitted were discontinued in January 2011 some 27 months prior to my purchasing the vehicles. Adrias response it that this is third party supply is and my only recourse is to buy new wheels on 16 "radius at my expense, and no amount of pleading or cajoling will get them to change their decision. Surely Adria have a moral if not legal responsibility and I leave it to you to draw your own conclusions as to their customer service levels. Has anyone experienced anything similar and if you are a Sonic owner may I suggest you check your tyre size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 These people say Vanco2 in stock... http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres-255-55-17-116/ Worth a phone call? Or try ringing round your local independent tyre specialists. Where are you located? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 A lot of people seem to stock 255/55 R17 by various makers, but those I looked at were V not C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Speed rating is not the important thing here, it is the load rating, 116/118, and the C signifies Commercial (or the like) as opposed to car tyres. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Keith, Yes I saw this but the date of manufacture is 2008 so already 5 years old. Continental Tyres shred their stock after 5 years so very reluctant to fit and what happens in a couple of years time when they need replacing? It is a real conundrum.i live in South Bucks. Average annual mileage is circa 10000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I make that 7 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Maths is obviously not my strongest suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Conti were still listing them in their Technical Databook for 2013/14, so they should be available up to those dates. Have you contacted Conti direct over this? Speed index is R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Brian, Yes have been in contact with Continental who have been very helpful but confirm manufacture ceased in January 2011. The size is 255/55 R17 C 116/118. Contis recommendation is Vanco 2 235/65 R16 121 but fitted to R16 wheels. This is the nearest E.T.R.T.O comparative but does need 16 inch wheels. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thought you must have been! :-) It seems the size isn't available from any manufacturer in the required load rating. Clearly, you won't be the only buyer being caught like this. Were the wheels and tyres fitted by Adria, or were they a dealer special? If a dealer special, you may have some come-back against the dealer. If fitted as OEM by Adria, I think they have a moral duty to make some kind of contridution, but as you have already contacted them and they have refused, it seems they are prepared to take the flack from other buyers. Be interesting if they sold the same wheels/tyres in Germany, as I think it is their biggest market and they will definitely get flack from the Germans. Personally, I think I'd be happier with less of a low profile tyre on a 16" wheel. It would probably give a slightly better ride and a bit more protection on unsurfaced roads. But, having to buy four wheels and tyres in order to replace just a single damaged tyre seems completely unreasonable. My only other thought is for you to talk to Trading Standards (or Citizens' Advice) to see if you have any legal remedy against anyone. At the very least I would have thought Conti ought to agree a substantial discount on the new tyres, allowing for use to date of the originals, and they or Adria should make you a present of four new 16" steel wheels, with whatever trims they fitted as standard. The advice on your legal position should be interesting even if you don't take it any further, even if just as a lever to be used to get people to sit up and pay attention to your grievance. Ultimately, it is the dealer from whom you bought the van who carries the legal onus to put it right. Seems a bit hard on the dealer under the circumstances, but that is where the law says the buck stops. Have you talked to them about this? If they are still handling Adria vans they may be able to pull a few strings you can't. It'll cause some kind of stink as others come to realise changing tyres means also changing wheels, so they may wish to get their lines cleared before too much poo goes into the fan! IMO Adria will be unwise to try to completely shrug this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Allan, My curiosity is getting the better of me so excuse me for asking but... You say you bought your Adria new in 2013, was it brand new or old stock? I ask as the tyres must already have been 2 years old by then if Conti stopped making them in January 2011!!! Do you know the date of manufacture of your tyres, it will be moulded into the sidewall (might be inside!) and a 4 digit code eg 2411 will be week 24 of 2011. Another possibility, where the wheels brand new when you bought it or could they have possibly been second hand? Just exploring ideas why the tyres might have been older than the MH. As I said this is just my curiosity but answers may help when approaching the dealer to try and make amends, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 A difficult situation, I had a look around, but the best I could find were a new set of 16" alloys with equivalent size and load weight tyres at £480. Which is about the cost of four new CP tyres. If you could sell on your wheels to someone who didn't need the load weighting but wanted a fancy set of alloys. You could break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 It will be seen from here http://www.adria-mobil.com/_2014/library/td-pdfs/2753_826.pdf that Adria were still offering "Alluminium wheels Turemo 255/55 R17 C” as an option for 2015-season Sonic models (though that doesn’t mean Adrai would actually agree to provide that wheel/tyre combination if a buyer opted for it!) This January 2014 Adria listing http://verkauf.gebetsroither.com/fileadmin/content/verkauf/PDF/2014/rm/adria_sonic_plus_14_v1.1.pdf quotes €3978 as the price for the 17”-wheel option, which might well have discouraged buyers from selecting it. As the 17” wheels will have been designed to fit Ducato hubs, their applicability to other vehicles may be severely limited. If the wheels will only fit Ducatos and an appropriate tyre is no longer available, they may prove difficult to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi Keith The Adria Sonic was registered to me as first owner in March 2013 and the mileage was 2 miles. checking back on my paperwork the electrical installation certificate issued by Adria Mobil of Slovenia is dated 27/06/2012 so allowing for completion and shipping times it is reasonable to assume it arrived in the UK around Sept/Oct 2012. Indeed it may have been shown at the NEC in October 2012. I concluded the deal with the dealer in late Feb 2013 and took delivery on 22/03/13.I did specify additions such as rear view camera, awning and sat dish but the tyres and wheels were as seen. Checking the tyres shows a manufacturing date 46/10 so presumably November 2010. My main argument with Adria is that they sold me a vehicle that had tyres that had not been manufactured for 27 months prior to me taking delivery and that the alloy wheels would only accept this size and load rating tyre whilst no other manufacturer was available either. They must have known of the situation and chose not to inform me. Their response is that the parts are third party suppliers and they cannot be held responsible. The dealer claims and I tend to believe him that they were not aware of the situation until I raised the matter with them in August last year. Direct emails to Slovenia didn't even get a response and it has taken since then to finally get a reply from Adria UK`s Sales manager. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thank you for your input. This suggests that tyres might be available in Germany, but Continental UK state they once discontinued that is the end of it. It is worth me checking if Continental Europe have a different policy, however it doesn't in my eyes detract from Adria Uk responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The only thing wrong with Adria's disclaimer is that they omitted the word "legally". It is narrowly true, but not a rational response saving for its purely financial implications. I just wonder how many vans were sold shod in this way? If you sub out the supply of any element of a product to a third party, you remain liable for the adequacy of their product, because you chose the supplier, and their product. A car is an assembly of many components sourced from many producers, but the manufacturer of the car retains overall responsibility for its adequacy (which he acknowledges through his warranty). The dealer who sells it becomes individually responsible to his buyers for its adequacy under consumer law. So, when the car develops a fault you go back to the dealer, and he has to argue with the manufacturer over the remedy. The dealer cannot legally limit his liability by claiming that the warranty doesn't cover that component, because is wasn't made by the manufacturer. AFAIK, all wheels/tyres fitted to all vehicles are sourced from third parties - usually from more than one third party to secure continuity of supply. The argument advanced by the UK rep for Adria is farcical and doesn't alter anyone's actual liabilities. The situation is ridiculous. If an owner of one of the vans so fitted gets a puncture that cannot be repaired he will have, at minimum, to fork out for two new wheels and tyres, in lieu of just a replacement tyre. Anyone with one of these vans whose tyres need replacing on grounds of age, will find they need four new wheels and tyres. This cannot be the reasonable expectation of anyone buying any vehicle. Adria need to speak firmly with Continental. It is they who have ceased making what appears to have been a unique product. I assume Conti did this because the take-up was small, and production uneconomical. Fine for Continental, it suited their bottom line, but completely unreasonable for those of their end users who, as we can now see, did not have informed choice at the point of purchase, by being warned that the tyres were already out of production, and there was no available substitute. It remains my view that the only party who can be pursued legally for remedy is the dealer, who should be standing front and centre in any discussions with Adria, because they supplied him. This would be even more true if the dealer had ordered the van with the wheels etc for stock. I don't blame him, and I wouldn't expect him to have known the position re the tyres when he ordered, but he is the first link in the chain that leads back to Adria, and he is the only one out of the parties involved who carries any legal liability in this. That is why I still urge you to consult Trading Standards or Citizens' Advice to see where, exactly, you stand legally. You then do with that knowledge as you will, but you will at least know if you have any kind of fall-back should everyone involved continue to deny responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If the wheels are ducato x250 fit, there are plenty of lower rated tyres of this size that will fit panel van conversions etc.. Someone may want a set of €4,000 alloys for the price of new 16" wheels and tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Brian, Thank you, you have reinforced my own views and I am contacting the CAB tomorrow and am checking out with Continental whether their mainland Europe policy is the same as their UK policy. Adria are awful to deal with as emails to Slovenia are totally ignored even when addressed to their CEO personally and Adria UK only seem to answer when pressured by the dealer and then extremely belatedly. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 thank you,good point, I will check out if there is a good market for alloys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hate to state the obvious but here goes....I assume that you purchased from a dealer.....the dealer is totally responsible for your situation and should be pursued for a resolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just a thought, 116 rated tyres have a load capacity of 1250K each, do you need 2.5T on either axle? Otherwise a lower rated tyre would be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrab Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 the plating reads 1st axle...2100kg 2nd axle..2400kg Adria give the weight as 4.2 ton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 .....so you do really need the 116 rating. Looks like you got a bonus of fancy wheels, but Continental then stopped making the appropriate tyres. I doubt if Adria or the dealer realised the problem until someone (you) tried to replace a tyre. They are all looking the other way at the moment. Seems like the forum contributors have looked at alternative circumference/rated tyres but have drawn a blank. I assume the standard wheels are the maxi chassis 16" and there are loads of those about, both alloy and steel, but you do have some very valuable wheels to trade, the dealer may be interested. (Did you have spare, or just the 4? My car has 20" wheels and an 18" spare, and many have space savers.) It could have been a real problem if you had shredded a tyre when on an overseas trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Can't see a problem loads of Conti Vanco's available in that size just need to look in the right place. :D This one any good. Just a case of going to German Google and doing a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-03-23 8:10 PM Can't see a problem loads of Conti Vanco's available in that size... But as already pointed out these tyres will already be over 4 years old (Conti ceased production in Jan 2011). So on a MH you will almost certainly run out of life on age rather then mileage! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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