bambuko Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just returned from the first trip in our (new to us) motorhome. Everything was perfect apart from the seat height :'( My shorty passenger was dangling her feet in the air and I (being 6'4") had to duck to see ahead >:-( Renault van seats are fixed on sheet metal box structures (spot welded together) and fixed to the floor with four bolts. We can adjust the seats higher but not lower. Things are not made easier by the swivel mechanism... So the only option seem to be to modify the boxes under the sets? Simple case of cut and weld together, taking couple of inches out... Has anybody done something like this? Are there other (better?) solutions Can I do someting like this without upsetting some officialdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hi and welcome to the forum. I have the same trouble with every van I buy and as we do not like spending the evening in the same seat we have been sat upon all day I remove the swivel bases and that usually works. In the past I have cut and shut seat boxes and any decent steel fabricator should be able to do this for you if you remove the boxes and take them in without the van. You may have to make sure that any seat belt points remain strong enough and accessible. No doubt you would be in breach of some rule or other but if you don't tell anyone who will know! You could contemplate getting a pair of boxes from a breaker to have modified then if it does not work all is not lost and if it does work you can refit the originals when you sell it. I have no idea what your insurers would say if you told them, which theoretically you should. Marcle Leisure used to make boxes for a wide range of vans and might be worth talking too as they are, well used to be at least, very helpful. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=seat+box&osCsid=5c16f93fbfc8fc15a662912997e0a694&x=29&y=12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambuko Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thank you! That's very good link. I have no choice but to use the swivel seats to make the insides usable, so I have to find a way of lowering the seat's base. There must be many more people 6' and taller who are having this kind of problems? What a stupid design (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 bambuko - 2015-03-22 8:57 PM There must be many more people 6' and taller who are having this kind of problems? What a stupid design (lol) Not only tall people! As you say it is poor design and what is worse is due to type approval and all that safety related crud converters are now too afraid to modify the seats from the base vehicle design in case they get sued in the case of an accident. Meanwhile they continue to fit swivels that make the drivers seat impossible to see out of the windscreen from for some people but that, of course is not dangerous? Progress eh - doncha just luvit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I did it on a Swift you will also find if swivel seats are fitted the seats are higher take that into consideration As long as the seat box is as strong once you have shortened there isnt a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hi and welcome, A quick solution to the passengers dangling feet is to put your levelling blocks in front of the seat to effectively 'raise' the floor. This is what my Sister does in their elderly Peugeot Boxer. Keith. And do check for anything within the seat box before you get too carried away, are there any batteries or electrics in there? And, will the seat still swivel past the handbrake if you lower it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My wife has the same problem, she just rests her feet on the upside down washing up bowl, Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambuko Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am less concerned about short legged passengers :-D , because as you say, there are quick and easy solutions to that. My main concern is lowering driver's seat. You are right to mention handbrake (my swiveling seat would clear it fine if lowered) and possible things in the seat base (my battery is under the floor and there is nothing inside seat base box - it's empty). Technically I am sure it can be done, my main concern is possible impact on "type approval", insurance and later re-sale. I have no problem with disclosing of the mod to the insurers, but I am concerned about how would they react? and is it a "permitted mod"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan D Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My wife uses a small plastic folding stool that can be bought just about anywhere. This also comes in handy for reaching into high cupboards and the back storage box. It then can be folded up when not wanted. Cost about £4-5, very handy. I would not mess with my excellent Renault Isri adjustable swivel seats. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambuko Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Let me repeat again, the real issue is not short legged passengers, but lack of any adjustment for tall drivers. ... I would not mess with my excellent Renault Isri adjustable swivel seats... Maybe it is excellent and adjustable for you :-D (you don't mention how tall are you ...) but I have adjusted the seat fully down and it is still not down enough. Let's forget about passenger and concentrate on the (tall) driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 bambuko - 2015-03-23 8:35 AM You are right to mention handbrake (my swiveling seat would clear it fine if lowered) and possible things in the seat base (my battery is under the floor and there is nothing inside seat base box - it's empty). Technically I am sure it can be done, my main concern is possible impact on "type approval", insurance and later re-sale. I have no problem with disclosing of the mod to the insurers, but I am concerned about how would they react? and is it a "permitted mod"? Hi again ..... (sorry but you haven't given a 'real' name), You've taken on board my previous comments about what's in the seat box and handbrake position so if it is really a question of what your insurer would think then phone them up and ask. But, my personal view would be that provided the mod was done' professionally' then there should not be a problem. In fact if it where me I would most probably do it and say nowt. You could always claim that was how you bought it :D Just my thoughts. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Seats in vans have been through thorough crash tests so that in accidents they do not become dangerous projectiles. If you modify the seat base in your van in any substantial way you remove the validity of these crash tests. If you are involved in a subsequent crash and your seat base fails your insurance company assessor may well notice that the seat base has been modified. Not only may you find that your insurance company will not cover you but you or your passenger may have sustained unnecessary and potentially serious injuries. My wife is relatively small and for every one of our past 5 motorhomes (Ford, Fiat, Peugeot and now Renault) I have made a small footstool. Problem solved! The basic problem is that vans have not been designed to have swivel seats. The swivel seat mechanism added by motorhome manufacturers inevitably add to the standard seat height. Integrated motorhome manufacturers start from the base chassis and therefore do not have this problem. The only proper solution is for motorhome manufacturers who build motorhomes from a chassis with cab (like in the UK) is to arrange for their suppliers to supply them with reduced height seat bases. This would obviously be a problem for manufacturers who put the vehicle battery in the seat base (like Ford). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The original vans may well have been crash tested, but I am not aware that motorhomes with added swivel seats have been. They themselves are a "mod" that the many cassandras on this site say will " invalidate your insurance". (As will go-faster stripes, winter tyres, or furry dice in your windscreen apparently) Lowering the seat box professionally seems a sensible improvement, my Remis blinds make the view uncomfortably restricted so that I can't see traffic lights in my normal position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Brabander (another nameless poster!) I was going to write a complete diatribe about risk and why you should or should not do things. But to be honest I can't be @'rsed!!! Life is full of risks, you do the best you can to mitigate any that you CAN influence. Modifying a seat base would the least of my worries if it was done PROFESSIONALLY and not botched by a ham fisted amateur. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambuko Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Keithl - 2015-03-23 10:12 AM Hi again ..... (sorry but you haven't given a 'real' name)... "real" name is optional on this forum, feel free to refer to me by my nickname ;-) I could call myself Keith but that doesn't make it any more real (lol) Brabander - 2015-03-23 8:37 PM My wife is relatively small and for every one of our past 5 motorhomes (Ford, Fiat, Peugeot and now Renault) I have made a small footstool. Problem solved!... How many time do I have to repeat that this is not the main issue >:-) "Small footstool" doesn't solve the probelm of tall driver with obstructed forward vision *-) Billggski - 2015-03-23 8:59 PM The original vans may well have been crash tested, but I am not aware that motorhomes with added swivel seats have been. They themselves are a "mod" that the many cassandras on this site say will " invalidate your insurance". (As will go-faster stripes, winter tyres, or furry dice in your windscreen apparently) Lowering the seat box professionally seems a sensible improvement, my Remis blinds make the view uncomfortably restricted so that I can't see traffic lights in my normal position. +1 on that! There are lower seat bases available for X230, X244 and X250. Ther some available for other vans as well, but not for Renault, but I guess the only reason is that Renault are not as popular as base vehicle as other makes. Keithl - 2015-03-24 7:15 AM Brabander (another nameless poster!)... You obviously have a bee in a b onnet about tghis subject :-D It's the message that matter, not the nickname (lol) and until the forum changes it's rules, you are stuck with this... Finally, I had replies from three suppliers, here is one quote: We don't offer a lowered base for your vehicle. You could get an engineering shop to lower the base for you, however if your motorhome has seats with integrated seatbelts (the seatbelt is physically mounted on the seat and not on the vehicle like a car) then I would not recommend modifying your seat base. If the seatbelts come off the side of the vehicle then modification is possible as long as it is done to similar design/strength to the existing base. Type approval would only affect the vehicle chassis as this would be the only part that has type approval and given the age of your vehicle I'm not sure that you'd need to make anyone aware of modifications. Used vehicles have a bit of a grey area when it comes to modifications as no one seems to know what we can/can't do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Bambuko.... Personally, even if "type approval" etc, were an issue, if getting it lowered made it more comfortable and safer to drive, then I'd probably still look at getting it done...... As has been said, maybe get yourself another (used?) seat box and get that reduced "professionally" (..maybe by slightly more than you initially expect?..so it can be "shimmed" back up to suit, of needs be?).. We no longer have our Master(an '08) so I can't really envisage how neat a job it would/could lend itself to be (presumably there's a good chance that any cut would pass through some pressing/contour/rib of sorts?). Either way, I can't see any reason why a neat and perfectly safe job couldn't be achieved.. Out of interest, our handbrake was of the drop-down type(as in, even when "on", it lay down in the "off" position) and I assumed(wrongly?) that this was a standard Renault "thing".... (...coincidently, Pepe63, isn't my real name either... ...I've made up the '63 bit! (lol) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 bambuko - 2015-03-25 11:37 AM Brabander - 2015-03-23 8:37 PM My wife is relatively small and for every one of our past 5 motorhomes (Ford, Fiat, Peugeot and now Renault) I have made a small footstool. Problem solved!... How many time do I have to repeat that this is not the main issue >:-) Substantially more than 4 times it seems! :-D Keep at it though and the message might get through eventually.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Steve928 - 2015-03-25 12:47 PM Substantially more than 4 times it seems! :-D Keep at it though and the message might get through eventually.. I admire your optimism! However misguided! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambuko Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 pepe63 - 2015-03-25 12:21 PM ...Out of interest, our handbrake was of the drop-down type(as in, even when "on", it lay down in the "off" position) and I assumed(wrongly?) that this was a standard Renault "thing".... Yes, it is a standard Renault/Vauxhall part available to converters (but not fitted as standard on white vans) pepe63 - 2015-03-25 12:21 PM ...coincidently, Pepe63, isn't my real name either... (lol) some people get very emotional about this subject I respect their right to have a view as long as they afford me the right ot have different opinion :-D I have sufficient presence and history on the web that (if you knew how to do it) you could very quickly get my name, address etc, so it is not really about privacy. I just like my old nickname which has been with me for more years than I care to admit :-> Steve928 - 2015-03-25 12:47 PM ...Substantially more than 4 times it seems! :-D Keep at it though and the message might get through eventually.. doubt it (lol) Tracker - 2015-03-25 1:39 PM ... I admire your optimism! +1 on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Keithl, Yes, life is full of risks but I for one would not put my nearest and dearest at risk for a problem that can be resolved quite easily through the use of a simple foot stool. Seat rotators have been tested by the manufacturers and have been in use in motorhomes for many decades with no adverse reports in accidents. You mention a professional seat base modification but how do you ensure that this was done professionally? Are you an engineer with the relevant expertise. Can you do a final element analysis on the modified structure? In my many years of experience in the engineering industry (involving diesel engine driven products) I am very aware that a seemingly solid fabricated structure can quickly fatigue under conditions of vibration without this becoming obvious until stress is applied to the structure. I note that for Fiat vans reduced height seat bases are available. In my Ford motorhome I had to remove a seat base to install a second battery charger as the motorhome battery charger only charged one of the vehicle batteries. I carefully re-torqued the mounting bolts after the job was done. Incidentally, your name is just as anonymous as my name. I am not sure why my sincere contribution upset you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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