Van Length?

[Tracker]

I've just accurately measured our van by using a spirit level to project each end to the ground and using a one piece tape measure and I find the body length measures 5.98 metres.

 

The official Autosleepers length is 6.06 metres and the extra length is down solely to the ladder on the back wall, so if I remove the ladder which I do not want and will not use I might just find that my ferry fares are a bit less.

 

So for all you van owners whose van is just over the 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 or whatever length it may just be worth the effort of actually measuring it?

[Patricia]

For the French tolls it is the height that is more important but if you have an aerial or dome on the roof this is not counted, although aircon is. No idea why!

[PJay]

Patricia - 2015-04-06 10:10 AM

 

For the French tolls it is the height that is more important but if you have an aerial or dome on the roof this is not counted, although aircon is. No idea why!

 

Interesting!

We have a dome and aircon on the roof. The dome is higher than the aircon, so don't see how the camera? would "see" the sircon below the dome.

Never had a problem with the tolls, though we don't often use them

PJay

[Sydney1]

Why do you think you need to be so accurate with your measurements? Had 3 different length vans and used pretty well all the ferry companies. When booking I've always rounded down and never had any problems. Are you suggesting they measure with lasers or have I been lucky? The only interest I've ever seen is a casual glance out of the kiosk window.

[Randonneur]

Patricia - 2015-04-06 10:10 AM

 

For the French tolls it is the height that is more important but if you have an aerial or dome on the roof this is not counted, although aircon is. No idea why!

 

Hi, we have just come back through France from Portugal and the new toll booth at Poitiers Sud/Tours exit classed us at Classe 3, because of the dome, when we pressed the help button it was an English speaking Frenchman who was very nice but was convinced that we were Classe 3 but we persisted and he let us off for Classe 2. The dome has always been counted every since we had it fitted but we have always managed to convince them its Classe 2.

[Tracker]

Sydney1 - 2015-04-06 8:06 PM

Why do you think you need to be so accurate with your measurements? Had 3 different length vans and used pretty well all the ferry companies. When booking I've always rounded down and never had any problems. Are you suggesting they measure with lasers or have I been lucky? The only interest I've ever seen is a casual glance out of the kiosk window.

 

Maybe I have an inherently over honest approach to life - or maybe when I'm on holiday I really don't want any problems especially any of my own making - or maybe I am just naive!

 

However it would not take much effort for someone to look at the make and model designations emblazoned on all vans as they drive in and check against a computer list of manufacturers and converters published figures - but what do I know?

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Tracker - 2015-04-06 8:28 PM

 

However it would not take much effort for someone to look at the make and model designations emblazoned on all vans as they drive in and check against a computer list of manufacturers and converters published figures - but what do I know?

 

 

But Rich, if/when they did that with yours, the details that they would consult would still show that it is 6.06m...

..Would/do they bother to measure/gauge vehicles that accurately?...

(being a UK only campervanners for now, we wouldn't know..)

[Tracker]

pepe63 - 2015-04-06 8:36 PM

 

Tracker - 2015-04-06 8:28 PM

 

However it would not take much effort for someone to look at the make and model designations emblazoned on all vans as they drive in and check against a computer list of manufacturers and converters published figures - but what do I know?

 

 

But Rich, if/when they did that with yours, the details that they would consult would still show that it is 6.06m...

..Would/do they bother to measure/gauge vehicles that accurately?...

(being a UK only campervanners for now, we wouldn't know..)

 

And if they did I could look anyone straight in the eye and say with absolute integrity - "yes it was 6.06 overall including the ladder when it left the works, but I took the ladder off the back and now it is 8 cm shorter at 5.98 and if you wish to measure it to verify please be my guest!

 

Do I really have to justify being honest?

[candapack]

Tracker - 2015-04-06 8:52 PM

 

pepe63 - 2015-04-06 8:36 PM

 

Tracker - 2015-04-06 8:28 PM

 

However it would not take much effort for someone to look at the make and model designations emblazoned on all vans as they drive in and check against a computer list of manufacturers and converters published figures - but what do I know?

 

 

But Rich, if/when they did that with yours, the details that they would consult would still show that it is 6.06m...

..Would/do they bother to measure/gauge vehicles that accurately?...

(being a UK only campervanners for now, we wouldn't know..)

 

And if they did I could look anyone straight in the eye and say with absolute integrity - "yes it was 6.06 overall including the ladder when it left the works, but I took the ladder off the back and now it is 8 cm shorter at 5.98 and if you wish to measure it to verify please be my guest!

 

Do I really have to justify being honest?

 

Of course you don't - admirable.

I am impressed not only with your integrity, but with your apparent command of so many European languages, and/or your ability to access Google Translate anywhere, anytime.

I'm in a funny mood tonight, ignore me. :-D

[Tracker]

candapack - 2015-04-06 10:07 PM

I am impressed not only with your integrity, but with your apparent command of so many European languages, and/or your ability to access Google Translate anywhere, anytime.

I'm in a funny mood tonight, ignore me. :-D

 

You cannot be serious - I don't even have a good command of English let alone any other Johnny Foreigner lingo!

 

Funny moods are AOK with me Chris - keep smilin' and don't let the bu@@ers grind you down!

[globebuster]

The only time I've been 'measured up' - twice in fact, is at the Brittany Ferries check-in at Portsmouth.

 

They have road markings to give them a rough idea if you're over length - then they get the tape out!

 

On both occasions I've been given a mild talking to, but no extra charges - then again they get a few quid out of me on an annual basis.

 

As a very frequent traveller with BF, I've had no compunction in the past about being 'slightly' over the 5mt limit.

 

Although now I'm hovering around 7mt, I guess I'll have no alternative - interestingly there appears no additional cost between 6.5 and 7mts, even though these are options on the website.

I think height is more critical in terms of loading on busy crossings.

 

To remove the rear ladder would seem unnecessary, just to comply - and I'm assuming this was a belated April Fool .........

 

[Tracker]

globebuster - 2015-04-06 10:40 PM

To remove the rear ladder would seem unnecessary, just to comply - and I'm assuming this was a belated April Fool .........

 

Well sort of - but I don't need the ladder and it does nothing for the aesthetics of the van in my view, plus it could be seen as adding to the security risk!!

[Patricia]

Randonneur - 2015-04-06 8:22 PM

 

Patricia - 2015-04-06 10:10 AM

 

For the French tolls it is the height that is more important but if you have an aerial or dome on the roof this is not counted, although aircon is. No idea why!

 

Hi, we have just come back through France from Portugal and the new toll booth at Poitiers Sud/Tours exit classed us at Classe 3, because of the dome, when we pressed the help button it was an English speaking Frenchman who was very nice but was convinced that we were Classe 3 but we persisted and he let us off for Classe 2. The dome has always been counted every since we had it fitted but we have always managed to convince them its Classe 2.

 

Glad to note that you are still travelling in France despite moving back here. Hope all is well with you both.

If you read through the autoroute rules, which I think apply to all the operators, it says in the small print that aerials do not count for the height for charges. I never had a problem until I had a dome fitted and since then automatic tolls have been trying to charge classe 3 and even classe 4. Since signing up for the "Bip and Go" I don't have the same problem as only classe 2 can use this system.

[Derek Uzzell]

The autoroute “What counts as the vehicle height?” issue was mentioned in this earlier forum discussion

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Millau-Bridge-tolls/21046/

 

I think the fine-print height rules are only provided in French. I can’t find any recent on-line instructions about them, but I don’t think they have changed.

 

This old French-language leaflet refers to the rules in the “Les Critères” section at the leaflet’s top-right.

 

http://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/ASFA%20CLASSE%20VEHICULE%20BD.pdf

[Guest Had Enough]

My latest 'van is a fraction over 3 metres high and then there's an Oyster satellite dish. French unmanned tolls usually charge me class three, but manned ones often only charge me class 2.

 

I treat class two as a bit of a bonus as, when I bought it, I knew it would be class three as in both height and weight it is.

 

My only moan about the French toll system is that I can't get a Sanef type of automatic transponder so I can sail through and get one bill at the end of the month. These are only for sub-3500 kg 'vans at present.

 

By far the best system is Portugal where you draw up to the registering point as you enter the country. A camera photographs your registration number, you pop in your credit card and enter your PIN and that's it. From then on you sail along and cameras record your trip and debit your card for the total length of each journey, not perhaps six individual sections as can happen in France, with six stops and the resultant hassle and delay.

 

If France could implement such a system it would make life so much simpler and eliminate the toll booth queues.

[Patricia]

Derek Uzzell - 2015-04-07 10:57 AM

 

The autoroute “What counts as the vehicle height?” issue was mentioned in this earlier forum discussion

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Millau-Bridge-tolls/21046/

 

I think the fine-print height rules are only provided in French. I can’t find any recent on-line instructions about them, but I don’t think they have changed.

 

This old French-language leaflet refers to the rules in the “Les Critères” section at the leaflet’s top-right.

 

http://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/ASFA%20CLASSE%20VEHICULE%20BD.pdf

 

Thank you Derek. I didn't have time to search but, for anyone interested, under les Critères with the title Remarques the first group lists the additions on the vehicules roof which are not included in the calculation e.g. antennes (aerials) and paraboles (satellite dish). You could use both these words in your conversation with the toll operator or just say television if you forget the words.

The second paragraph lists some of the things that would be used in the calculation e.g. climatiseurs (aircon) and frigos (fridges). Hope this helps together with Derek's quote.

[StuartO]

We have roof aircon and a dome, but we are still a tad under 3 metres, by a mere inch or two, which I know for sure because that's the height of pur garage door and we just get in without touching Always gone through French tolls as category 2 without being picked up so far so perhaps their height detection system is pretty accurate.

 

Allowing dispensation for some roof-mounted things but not others is asking for troible really though, isn't it? At the very least it's a recipe for argument.

 

Curious, is it not, that they charge extra for a third axle on the motorhome, quite a lot extra as I recall, but you can have as mmany axles as you like on an attached trailer without paying more?

[Derek Uzzell]

The autoroute vehicle classification system first considers the vehicle itself and then considers the vehicle plus a trailer.

 

So a Class 1 vehicle can tow a trailer that has any number of axles and remain Class 1 provided that the ‘outfit’ still meets the Class 1 height/weight criteria.

 

Similarly for Class 2.

 

Class 3 is for ‘high’ and/or ‘heavy’ vehicles with 2 axles. When a Class 3 vehicle tows a trailer it should move to Class 4.

 

Class 4 is a ‘total up the number of axles’ category and a ‘high’ and/or ‘heavy’ vehicle with 3 or more axles, or a ‘high’ and/or ‘heavy’ 2-axle vehicle towing a trailer, should be Class 4.

 

Just like any tax collection system, autoroute vehicle classification is artificial and there will inevitably be vehicles that may not fit comfortably in a Class. For instance the Starcraft camper shown here

 

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-weston/ford_starcraft_48.htm

 

might possibly be considered Class 4 (because it has 3 axles) but is below the Class 4 height/weight thresholds so should be Class 2.

 

For anyone who thinks they might fall foul of the French 3-metre height rule and knows that this would be because there is ‘stuff’ on their motorhome’s roof that doesn’t count against the height measurement, it might be wise to print off the leaflet I provided a link to earlier and that defines what counts and what doesn’t.

 

 

[LordThornber]

Hi Rich, for what it's worth, going from the Nuevo to the Bailey (2 meters longer) has made no difference to our ferry fees.

 

Being the pedantic git that I am, when I first obtained the ferry quotes for the Bailey, I then put the Nuevo details in, result? No difference.

 

So far that has included Dover to Calais, Dunkirk, Portsmouth to Le Havre and The Tunnel.

 

Martyn

 

 

[Corky 8]

I have Noticed that DFDS ferries Height for all classes of Motorhomes has risen to  4.35 mtrs and there are only 2 length classes , 1 up to 7 meters and  2 up to 10 meters, so you would be well in with DFDS Rich.

[Tracker]

Just done some quick searches on 'Aferry' and it makes no difference from under 4.5 up to 8.5 mtrs long or in height from under 2.35 to 4.00 mtrs.

 

Other routes may differ but it does seem to bust the myth that over 6.00 metre long costs more to cross the channel, also Eurotunnel seem to only have one classification of 'campervan' regardless of length or height from a Bambi to a Behemoth I presume?

 

I still don't like the ladder and may take it off anyway!

[Derek Uzzell]

Where motorhomes are concerned, Brittany Ferries cross-Channel fares are linked to vehicle length. The fare increase may not be regular, but the underlying principle is that the longer the motorhome the higher the fare is likely to be.

 

The BF length-structure for motorhomes has 'change-points' at 5.0m, 6.0m, 6.5m, 7.0m, 8.0m and 9.0m. A quick check shows a fare-increase occurring as a motohome’s length passes a ‘change point’, the exception being that the fare for a 7.0m-long motorhome will be the same as for a 6.5m-long one.

 

I don’t know whether this holds good right across the board but, if planning to travel with BF, it should be anticipated that the fare for a 6.0m-long motorhome will be less expensive than the fare for (say) a 6.10m-long motorhome.

[globebuster]

All Brittany Ferry departure points work on the same length/cost principal - as would seem obvious.

 

You'll find Plymouth and Poole are quite relaxed about it, but as I expressed earlier, Portsmouth is much more regimented in their approach.

 

The individual will need to decide if he can 'live with himself' by taking a 6.10....6.30mt, van at the 6mt rate. The chances of getting pulled up would be remote [with the exception of Portsmouth maybe] but if you do, they will charge you the difference - and an amendment fee!

 

As I said before - height is an equally important factor for ferry operators......

 

 

[Tracker]

Crossing from Denmark through to Sweden a few years ago the tolls had price break points at 6.0 metres and the increase over 6.00 metres was substantial.

The ferries in Norway worked similar tariffs although anecdotally from talking to other visitors whilst there the Norwegians seemed to take a more relaxed approach than do the Danes.

Our van at the time was under 6.00 metres so it did not affect us.

[StuartO]

globebuster - 2015-04-08 10:01 AM

 

...The individual will need to decide if he can 'live with himself' by taking a 6.10....6.30mt, van at the 6mt rate. The chances of getting pulled up would be remote [with the exception of Portsmouth maybe] but if you do, they will charge you the difference - and an amendment fee!

 

Maybe we all have limits to our honesty, so most of us will have something on our conscience - either that or we have a deeply suppressed conscience and no shame. If we think we won't be caught cheating it gets too tempting not to do it. It woud feel terrible getting caught even at a Ferry Check in process and I'm too old to risk the embarassment.

 

Perhaps we need an Honest Motorhomer Club with a nice badge so that those of us who aren't cheaters can distinguish ourselves from the unsavoury opportunists who are - except I suppose that brass-necked cheaters would contrive to acquire one of our club badges improperly, so they could claim the benefits of being honest types too! A bit like those who are brass necked enough to use Blue Badges when they aren't really genuinely disabled and there are plenty of those.