First motorhome

[pepe63xnotuse]

mrm2013 - 2015-04-09 7:21 AM

 

The Benimar on the website is identical to the one I looked at yesterday, very similar mileage etc too. Currently sitting through private sales, got a couple locally to look at tomorrow ??

 

Hi..

 

That Benimar "looks" like a decent, usable family van...

 

but as it has a "garage" (which has the potential to be crammed with family clobber!), as Stuart said earlier, thoroughly check out it's payload and, just as importantly, it's rear axle capacity...

[Guest JudgeMental]

there are a new generation of slimline lightweight A class that fit your criteria. and some are just about workable @ 3500 Kg. Hymer exsis i 520 and 474 models worth a look, but my particular favourite the Carthago i 138.

 

Problem being they have only been out a year or two and above your budget.....Buying LHD offers advantages financially and with a much wider choice..... but still that budget for a modern van tight. I would forget about old Hymer B series vans....

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3hZ6bi2btg

[mrm2013]

They are nice but yes above my budget, perhaps one for the future.

 

Does anyone have info/advice on Elnagh super D112 as a reasonable come up local and can't find much online other than they are from a lower range so cheaper. It is a 5 berth with fixed bed and within budget on an 06 plate.

 

Thanks in advance

[mrm2013]

They are nice but yes above my budget, perhaps one for the future.

 

Does anyone have info/advice on Elnagh super D112 as a reasonable come up local and can't find much online other than they are from a lower range so cheaper. It is a 5 berth with fixed bed and within budget on an 06 plate.

 

Thanks in advance

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s a reasonable amount of on-line stuff relating to the Elnagh Super D 112 (GOOGLE-search on “elnagh d 112”)

 

This advert has quite a few photos

 

http://www.aadorfer-wohnmobile.ch/anz_1108/Fiat_Ducato_28_JTD_Elnagh_Super_D_112_Alkoven.html

 

including side-views that suggest that the rear springs of that particular motorhome may be past their best.

 

This is the type of ‘family’ design that used to be regularly sold with a 3500kg maximum chassis-weight (for driving licence reasons) but limited payload. Before committing to buying one you would be wise to have the vehicle weighed.

[Brian Kirby]

Don't know Elnagh vans personally, but also be aware that a number of Italian made motorhomes have tended to be a bit "vague" over payloads, and didn't always make it easy to ascertain the basis for their "unladen", or "mass in running order", weights. Catalogue values, if still available, may not be that much help.

 

So, be prepared to do a bit of research, and especially be aware that with any used van the previous owner/s will probably have added extras (for example a wind out awning), that are relatively heavy and eat into an already challenged payload. Derek's comment re the possible state of the rear suspension may well point to consistent rear axle overload, further suggesting that the payload may be insufficient.

[mrm2013]

Thanks again all, have been to a few dealers today and found 2 of interest,

 

05 Ford Chausson Welcome 28

 

08 Fiat Rimor Europeo 89

 

Both seem very good in their layout and size, both got good service history and offered with all usual dealer benefits such as habitation, MOT, cambelt etc. Both offered on very similar deals from what I can find online Chausson is of a higher build quality but 3 years older and 2 berths less. So seem good deals with both. Neither done any mileage to talk about and only just run the engines in. Ford would need down plating from 3850 but that is part of deal.

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions but any advice gratefully received.

[Brock]

Chausson is a more established brand in the UK at present. I think Rimor only has one dealer - in Hull - whilst Chausson has about a dozen.

 

Make sure you get a damp check and also check out the loading margin. Brian's warning of the vagaries of Italian weights should be born in mind whereas the Chausson probably needs 3850 if utilised to the full. Check to see you will have sufficient payload if you downplate. You can get a weighbridge ticket from any public weighbridge - the seller may be willing to organise. You need to know axle weightings and total weight. Post again if you want more info on weighing a motorhome.

 

Fun isn't it!

[mrm2013]

Brock - 2015-04-10 3:22 PM

 

Chausson is a more established brand in the UK at present. I think Rimor only has one dealer - in Hull - whilst Chausson has about a dozen.

 

Make sure you get a damp check and also check out the loading margin. Brian's warning of the vagaries of Italian weights should be born in mind whereas the Chausson probably needs 3850 if utilised to the full. Check to see you will have sufficient payload if you downplate. You can get a weighbridge ticket from any public weighbridge - the seller may be willing to organise. You need to know axle weightings and total weight. Post again if you want more info on weighing a motorhome.

 

Fun isn't it!

 

It actually really is fun, although I must admit that day by day the number of the kids wanting to come and look at more motorhomes has decreased to the point I went alone today !

 

Luckily I have an uncle with a haulage firm so can check weights under different loads ??

 

According to the dealer the Chausson payload it 650 so down plated would be 300 which isn't great but could prob manage with taking a car.

 

[mrm2013]

Brock - 2015-04-10 3:22 PM

 

Chausson is a more established brand in the UK at present. I think Rimor only has one dealer - in Hull - whilst Chausson has about a dozen.

 

Make sure you get a damp check and also check out the loading margin.

 

As long as there I at least one UK dealer so parts are readily available, once the motorhome I out of dealer warranty, what are the benefits of using a main dealer. We have several well established motorhome dealers/garages around that work on all makes of vans and coachbuilt bodies, or do I really need an accessible dealer.

 

Is a damp check done as part of the habitation check ? Or do I need a more comprehensive check/report ?

 

Thanks again

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hi...

Just because there may be a "UK dealer" that doesn't necessarily mean that parts will be "readily available"... and that goes for many a manufacturer....

If available at all, it can still take months to obtain some parts....

 

I know it's been mentioned loads of times already and you are on the case but don't under estimate how much all of your clobber, bits'n'bobs and going-away kit will weight....

We had an '08 Chausson Allegro 83 7mtr,3-4 berth, low profile(Renault Master chassis, plated at 3850kg).

And when I trial loaded that for just the two of us(full tanks, camping chairs, lightweight porch awning etc) that came out at near 3650kg!....

So despite having two belted seats in the back, we wouldn't have legally been able to carry anybody anyway, if it had been in it's 3500kg form..

(and this was an "un-garaged" model, with no bike racks, no sat' dish, no roof air con' etc..and it was before we fitted the rear bumper/towbar and air assistors).

 

Damp check:

Although it will/should be part of the hab' service/check, if possible, it makes sense to get an independent check done....or buy/borrow/rent a decent meter and check yourself?

[mrm2013]

I am edging towards Chausson but need to look at payload closer as everything else seems good and managed to squeeze a bit more from dealer on price so since his 'absolute bottom price' we have dropped twice.

[globebuster]

You will struggle with a down-rated payload of 300kg

 

Remember, different manufacturers use different Payload criteria - some will give the payload with only 20lts of water, and half a tank of fuel, others factor in more generous figures - but all only make an allowance [75kg] for the driver.

 

If you drive around with full tanks and an extra gas bottle you might be over the limit with just a front seat passenger!

 

I suggest you check the web for more detail on what Chausson include before the payload figure is quoted. Chaussons are good vans in my opinion, having owned one.

I would insist on getting the dealer to take the van to a weighbridge [and produce the ticket] before you commit to anything, there's not much point you doing this retrospectively - because it will be too late for you to do anything about it!

 

I don't think 300kg is not a workable payload for a family motorhome - actually, any motorhome for that matter...

[pepe63xnotuse]

We had our Chausson for 4 1/5 years..and we couldn't fault it..

The weekend we went to view it, we were actually there to look at an over cabbed, rear lounge Transit(probably a 28, as you are looking at?) but the 83 had just come in and OH fell for the fixed bed (french-bed)..

 

Had the Ford(28?) been of the same layout as the 83, then I would've opted for the twin RWD Transit, without hesitation..

 

Sorry, crossed posts

 

Re: Payload(again).

 

Just get the seller to get it weighed(including separate axle readings). At least then you'll have real world figures to work with

Different vans I know...but ours wouldn't (couldn't!) have worked at 3500kg... :-S

[mrm2013]

The dealer has said he would take to weighbridge and get ticket as they need that to downplate anyway, I will get scouring the internet for the payload info

[Brian Kirby]

These are 7 metre plus Luton bodied vans. My personal view is that neither will work at 3,500kg, and that 300kg is not practically workable for a family of four.

 

You would be better off with the Transit base, as it will have a more realistic permissible rear axle load than the Fiat base.

 

Both have quite substantial rear overhangs, so the rear axles are likely to get quite heavily loaded.

 

However, trying to get at the true weights of Rimors is not easy. The Chausson will be easier to crack, but that rear overhang on a Fiat base is a concern.

 

Both will have fuel tanks of about 80/90 litres capacity. I would expect both to be low on fuel if on a dealer's forecourt. A full tank, at 0.85 kg/litre will therefore be 70/80kg. Water is 1 kg/litre, so allow for a full water tank. An empty steel 13kg gas cylinder weighs about 15kg, plus its 13kg of gas, so 28kg total.

 

Payload should be calculated by deducting mass in running order (MIRO) from maximum allowable mass (MAM). MIRO should be calculated with water, fuel and gas reservoirs 90% full, plus a driver at a nominal 75kg. However, that tells you nothing about how the load distributes between the two axles. Remember that it is almost impossible to add load directly above, or in front of, the front axle. Most load will be between the axles, and will distribute in proportion to where it is sited. Any load behind the rear axle imparts a greater load than its self-mass on the rear axle, with the difference subtracting from the front axle load. This is the main reason that most motorhomes run out of rear axle load before they run out of MAM.

 

I don't know if this will help, but our previous FWD Transit based van had a rear overhang that was 57% of its 3,300mm wheelbase. When fully laden, its total load of 650kg distributed 70kg to the front and 580 to the rear. The front axle limit was 1,750kg and the rear 2,260kg. Actual loads when fully laden were 1,340kg front and 2,000kg rear.

 

Our present FWD Ducato based van has a rear overhang that is 55% of its 3,650mm wheelbase. When fully laden, its total load of 695kg distributes 120kg to the front and 575 to the rear. The front axle limit is 1,850kg and the rear 2,000kg. Actual loads when fully laden are 1,630kg front and 1,900kg rear.

 

As you can see in both cases the majority of the load accumulates at the rear axle. Both vans were initially weighed on a weighbridge with a full tank of fuel, but otherwise empty with no driver, passenger, water or gas, on board. They were then fully loaded and weighed again with both passenger and driver on board, plus all reservours at 100%. The fully laden loads quoted above are the difference between the empty (but with full fuel) weighbridge values, and the fully laden weighbridge values.

 

We travel for 8 to 12 weeks spring and autumn, and there are only the two of us. We depart fully stocked. We carry two reasonably lightweight bikes. We take warm clothing as well as summer clothing. We have eliminated any stuff we have found we don't use.

 

Your use patern will be different to ours, but I hope the above will give some idea of why I think you'll struggle with just 300kg of payload, and why I think it so important to understand exactly what the dealer is talking about when he speaks of "payload". I would certainly expect both vans to be taken to a weighbridge, and the front and rear axle, and overall, weights to be noted. The van will have a plate showing its axle limits and MAM. Deduct the weighbridge values from each, and then see what you have to play with. It may be OK, but I reckon it will be very touch and go.

 

Good luck, and I hope this helps - and is not too confusing! :-)

[mrm2013]

Full fuel, full water, full gas and driver is what I have found is quoted by Chausson. I also found a really useful old post from this site by Brian full of advice. The general consensus seems to be that the Chausson payloads are really quite accurate. Looking at the figures when downgrading I would have a 300-350kg payload. If just my partner and I go away that is more than enough, if the kids are all coming we would need to take a car anyway so it is workable. In the post by Brian Judge Mental also comments about freeing up weight by travelling with 50% water and other such methods. The bikes which seem to add weight can go on the bike rack on the car if we start taking them then stored in garage on site. The boss has just come in and loves the Chausson.

[mrm2013]

Brian Kirby - 2015-04-10 7:33 PM

 

These are 7 metre plus Luton bodied vans. My personal view is that neither will work at 3,500kg, and that 300kg is not practically workable for a family of four.

 

You would be better off with the Transit base, as it will have a more realistic permissible rear axle load than the Fiat base.

 

Both have quite substantial rear overhangs, so the rear axles are likely to get quite heavily loaded.

 

However, trying to get at the true weights of Rimors is not easy. The Chausson will be easier to crack, but that rear overhang on a Fiat base is a concern.

 

Both will have fuel tanks of about 80/90 litres capacity. I would expect both to be low on fuel if on a dealer's forecourt. A full tank, at 0.85 kg/litre will therefore be 70/80kg. Water is 1 kg/litre, so allow for a full water tank. An empty steel 13kg gas cylinder weighs about 15kg, plus its 13kg of gas, so 28kg total.

 

Payload should be calculated by deducting mass in running order (MIRO) from maximum allowable mass (MAM). MIRO should be calculated with water, fuel and gas reservoirs 90% full, plus a driver at a nominal 75kg. However, that tells you nothing about how the load distributes between the two axles. Remember that it is almost impossible to add load directly above, or in front of, the front axle. Most load will be between the axles, and will distribute in proportion to where it is sited. Any load behind the rear axle imparts a greater load than its self-mass on the rear axle, with the difference subtracting from the front axle load. This is the main reason that most motorhomes run out of rear axle load before they run out of MAM.

 

I don't know if this will help, but our previous FWD Transit based van had a rear overhang that was 57% of its 3,300mm wheelbase. When fully laden, its total load of 650kg distributed 70kg to the front and 580 to the rear. The front axle limit was 1,750kg and the rear 2,260kg. Actual loads when fully laden were 1,340kg front and 2,000kg rear.

 

Our present FWD Ducato based van has a rear overhang that is 55% of its 3,650mm wheelbase. When fully laden, its total load of 695kg distributes 120kg to the front and 575 to the rear. The front axle limit is 1,850kg and the rear 2,000kg. Actual loads when fully laden are 1,630kg front and 1,900kg rear.

 

As you can see in both cases the majority of the load accumulates at the rear axle. Both vans were initially weighed on a weighbridge with a full tank of fuel, but otherwise empty with no driver, passenger, water or gas, on board. They were then fully loaded and weighed again with both passenger and driver on board, plus all reservours at 100%. The fully laden loads quoted above are the difference between the empty (but with full fuel) weighbridge values, and the fully laden weighbridge values.

 

We travel for 8 to 12 weeks spring and autumn, and there are only the two of us. We depart fully stocked. We carry two reasonably lightweight bikes. We take warm clothing as well as summer clothing. We have eliminated any stuff we have found we don't use.

 

Your use patern will be different to ours, but I hope the above will give some idea of why I think you'll struggle with just 300kg of payload, and why I think it so important to understand exactly what the dealer is talking about when he speaks of "payload". I would certainly expect both vans to be taken to a weighbridge, and the front and rear axle, and overall, weights to be noted. The van will have a plate showing its axle limits and MAM. Deduct the weighbridge values from each, and then see what you have to play with. It may be OK, but I reckon it will be very touch and go.

 

Good luck, and I hope this helps - and is not too confusing! :-)

 

That's great thanks, the Chausson is a Ford chassis so really considering it, just need to check all those weights. Brian I seem to have spent the past 3 days reading your posts past and present, they really are invaluable to a newbie such as myself, so thanks very much

[Derek Uzzell]

For what it’s worth, a 2005 French motorhome magazine qooted a payload of 425kg for Chausson Welcome 28 “GA” and “SU” models. Being France, the vehicles would have been marketed with a 3500kg maximum weight.

 

While spare parts for the base-vehicle (a Ford Transit in the case of the Chausson) and major appliances (heater, fridge, etc.) should be relatively straightforward to source, parts unique to the conversion (eg. furniture, fittings, plastic body mouldings) may well prove unobtainable. But this is likely to be true for any make of motorhome that’s beyond a few years old.

[mrm2013]

Thanks

 

I have spoke to the dealer who has told me that they did a payload when it first came in, so with all after market stuff fitted and it was 650kg with water full but not full fuel that is only quarter. So with a reduction that would leave 300kg but that excludes awning and bike rack etc that were fitted aftersales, as they are in the calculation. He is going to do another himself Monday as he would need for downplating and he did not do the last one personally.