cliffy38 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I have just returned from the Peterborough motorhome show. I have agreed a price on a second hand motorhome with my existing as part exchange. The dealer has looked at my motorhome and still agreed the price. However I have paid £1000 deposit and asked the dealer about finance, which advised could be arranged with black horse. I have been given 2 different Apr rates by the sales team and the finance people so decided to see what I could get myself. I have agreed a loan, in principle, with tesco that gives me a far better rate than that quoted. However my concern is that the dealer try and change the agreed price if I don't use Blackhorse, even though I have signed no finance agreements. Am I worrying for no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Yes. But ring the dealer and inform them of your decision. Why should a sale be dependent on you using their finance. That would be construed as restricted practice in my view, and illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 peter - 2015-04-20 11:29 AM Yes. But ring the dealer and inform them of your decision. Why should a sale be dependent on you using their finance. That would be construed as restricted practice in my view, and illegal. I don't think that's the question really. Of course no dealer can make you use their own finance company but you could have a situation where you tell the dealer that you will definitely use his finance company and on that basis he gives you a slightly better price as he may be making a commission on the finance package. If you then decide not to use his finance company you have changed the terms of the arrangement that you agreed and in my view he would be morally and legally entitled to revise his offer. However, from what the OP says he hasn't actually agreed to use Black Horse and his deal was offered without any finance arrangements being agreed, or as a necessary part of the transaction. He should have no problem therefore, in this case, in using any finance company, or buying it for cash using a personal loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 For purely convenience reasons, keeping it under one roof, you could ask the dealer to match or better still, beat, Tescos rate. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I would say do NOT take out the Black Horse loan even if it matches your current Tesco loan as regardless that they are being used to finance your purchase they are two very DIFFERENT TYPES of loan! The BH one is secured on the vehicle and usually includes an admin fee to set it up and a final admin fee along with the last payment, but the main issue I have with these loans is that at no point is the vehicle yours until you actually make the very last payment and pay the final admin fee ... really, it isn't! On the other hand, an 'independent' Tesco loan is just that, it isn't secured on the vehicle at all, even if you tell them that's what you want it for, and when you buy the MH it is yours from day one. One major benefit of an 'independent' type loan from the likes of Tesco etc is that if you want to sell or change the MH in the future and the loan still has some of it's original term to go you do NOT have to pay it off to do so, but with a loan secured on the vehicle you DO, this then adds to the cost as the loan settlement figure still has some charge for their 'lost' interst period, so in effect you end up paying interest on interest if you take out another loan. So, in a nutshell, I would stay clear of the Black Horse loan secured on the vehicle and go 'independent'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Did the dealer 'damp test' your van? Most do, some don't, and some prefer to get you there, insurance arranged, money in the bank ready to debit, all set for hand over, then try to hit you with 'we've found some damp in one side and it will cost £3000 to put right so we have to offer you £3000 less'. It only happened to me once and after some lively 'discussion' I got a full refund but we were still mighty inconvenienced and ever since I have insisted that my p/x is damp tested at the time we agree a deal and the order noted accordingly. I've never used a loan to buy a van so have no experience but you are entitled to use which ever finance you prefer and as long as you have signed no agreement or order form specifying any specific lender you are not contractually bound. However if it were me I would out of courtesy call or email the dealer setting out what you propose in case he does want to alter the deal to reflect loss of commission. Personally I prefer email because you can print it out as proof of what was said whereas unless you record a phone call and advise them you are recording the conversation you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Had Enough - 2015-04-20 11:52 AM peter - 2015-04-20 11:29 AM Yes. But ring the dealer and inform them of your decision. Why should a sale be dependent on you using their finance. That would be construed as restricted practice in my view, and illegal. I don't think that's the question really. Of course no dealer can make you use their own finance company but you could have a situation where you tell the dealer that you will definitely use his finance company and on that basis he gives you a slightly better price as he may be making a commission on the finance package. If you then decide not to use his finance company you have changed the terms of the arrangement that you agreed and in my view he would be morally and legally entitled to revise his offer. However, from what the OP says he hasn't actually agreed to use Black Horse and his deal was offered without any finance arrangements being agreed, or as a necessary part of the transaction. He should have no problem therefore, in this case, in using any finance company, or buying it for cash using a personal loan.So in more words, exactly what I said. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 peter - 2015-04-20 11:08 PM So in more words, exactly what I said. :D Mmmm. A bit unfair. You simply said that a dealer can't make you use his finance company, which I would have thought everyone knew anyway. I went one stage further and mentioned cases where you agree a finance deal with a dealer and he may well base his price on that condition. I pointed out that it could then be tricky for you to then change to your own finance company if the dealer has used his finance commission to give you a better price. Fortunately it appears that the OP didn't agree to definitely use Black Horse, so in his case we can assume that he can use his own finance method without penalty, but it's a point I thought worth mentioning just in case the OP did actually agree that he'd use Black Horse and is now changing his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Mel B - 2015-04-20 10:02 PM I would say do NOT take out the Black Horse loan even if it matches your current Tesco loan as regardless that they are being used to finance your purchase they are two very DIFFERENT TYPES of loan! The BH one is secured on the vehicle and usually includes an admin fee to set it up and a final admin fee along with the last payment, but the main issue I have with these loans is that at no point is the vehicle yours until you actually make the very last payment and pay the final admin fee ... really, it isn't! On the other hand, an 'independent' Tesco loan is just that, it isn't secured on the vehicle at all, even if you tell them that's what you want it for, and when you buy the MH it is yours from day one. One major benefit of an 'independent' type loan from the likes of Tesco etc is that if you want to sell or change the MH in the future and the loan still has some of it's original term to go you do NOT have to pay it off to do so, but with a loan secured on the vehicle you DO, this then adds to the cost as the loan settlement figure still has some charge for their 'lost' interst period, so in effect you end up paying interest on interest if you take out another loan. So, in a nutshell, I would stay clear of the Black Horse loan secured on the vehicle and go 'independent'. Do you get clubcard points? :D ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 as I understand it, black horse DO NOT now charge an admin fee, nor a final fee. and if you decide to pay off the loan early, again there is no charge. this supposedly came in around two weeks ago, and is information i've been given by two separate dealerships. i believe they are one of the few lenders who will give loans for over 5 years. But there is an age condition on the vehicle.That is the information I have been given, but as i dont have finance I cant speak from personal knowledge. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 KeithR - 2015-04-28 4:16 PM as I understand it, black horse DO NOT now charge an admin fee, nor a final fee. and if you decide to pay off the loan early, again there is no charge. this supposedly came in around two weeks ago, and is information i've been given by two separate dealerships. i believe they are one of the few lenders who will give loans for over 5 years. But there is an age condition on the vehicle.That is the information I have been given, but as i dont have finance I cant speak from personal knowledge. 8-) If there are no start and end admin fees then that is a good thing however I still stand by my original posting as you still WILL NOT OWN the vehicle until the last payment has been made, or you pay the loan off early ... a normal bank/building society loan does not have this 'limitation'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-04-21 12:27 PM Mel B - 2015-04-20 10:02 PM I would say do NOT take out the Black Horse loan even if it matches your current Tesco loan as regardless that they are being used to finance your purchase they are two very DIFFERENT TYPES of loan! The BH one is secured on the vehicle and usually includes an admin fee to set it up and a final admin fee along with the last payment, but the main issue I have with these loans is that at no point is the vehicle yours until you actually make the very last payment and pay the final admin fee ... really, it isn't! On the other hand, an 'independent' Tesco loan is just that, it isn't secured on the vehicle at all, even if you tell them that's what you want it for, and when you buy the MH it is yours from day one. One major benefit of an 'independent' type loan from the likes of Tesco etc is that if you want to sell or change the MH in the future and the loan still has some of it's original term to go you do NOT have to pay it off to do so, but with a loan secured on the vehicle you DO, this then adds to the cost as the loan settlement figure still has some charge for their 'lost' interst period, so in effect you end up paying interest on interest if you take out another loan. So, in a nutshell, I would stay clear of the Black Horse loan secured on the vehicle and go 'independent'. Do you get clubcard points? :D ............ No idea Dave, I haven't had a loan in years! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Mel B - 2015-04-20 10:02 PM I would say do NOT take out the Black Horse loan even if it matches your current Tesco loan as regardless that they are being used to finance your purchase they are two very DIFFERENT TYPES of loan! The BH one is secured on the vehicle and usually includes an admin fee to set it up and a final admin fee along with the last payment, but the main issue I have with these loans is that at no point is the vehicle yours until you actually make the very last payment and pay the final admin fee ... really, it isn't! On the other hand, an 'independent' Tesco loan is just that, it isn't secured on the vehicle at all, even if you tell them that's what you want it for, and when you buy the MH it is yours from day one. One major benefit of an 'independent' type loan from the likes of Tesco etc is that if you want to sell or change the MH in the future and the loan still has some of it's original term to go you do NOT have to pay it off to do so, but with a loan secured on the vehicle you DO, this then adds to the cost as the loan settlement figure still has some charge for their 'lost' interst period, so in effect you end up paying interest on interest if you take out another loan. So, in a nutshell, I would stay clear of the Black Horse loan secured on the vehicle and go 'independent'. Sound stuff, Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Tracker - 2015-04-20 10:36 PM Did the dealer 'damp test' your van? Most do, some don't, and some prefer to get you there, insurance arranged, money in the bank ready to debit, all set for hand over, then try to hit you with 'we've found some damp in one side and it will cost £3000 to put right so we have to offer you £3000 less'. It only happened to me once and after some lively 'discussion' I got a full refund but we were still mighty inconvenienced and ever since I have insisted that my p/x is damp tested at the time we agree a deal and the order noted accordingly..................... Also sound stuff, Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 like mel, ive not had a loan for years, but surely, isn't it a matter of what you are buying and what you can afford ? most personal loans will only give you 5 years, so for a longer loan you would probably only get it secured on the item you are buying (usually property or vehicles). whether you own it or the finance company owns it is surely academic unless you fail to pay, in which case the lender will still want their money? the loan on the van means they will take the van (do they not have any right to touch anything else? and could they only keep the amount owed) whilst the personal loan can strip your house, take your car or more probable, take something that will cover the loan and is not on finance somewhere (like a motorhome!!) I do watch a lot off morning tv, *-) *-) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 it appears that you do now have the option of buying your motorhome on a personal loan from black horse. you now have 3 options, hire purchase, personal loan or personal lease. I wonder if this came in at the same time they discontinued penalty payments?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 One thing not mentioned is that going to the dealer with your part ex and (now) a fistfull of cash (albeit from another lender than his) you could have/might have been able to negotiate a better deal. If it was me in your position and in secure employment I would go for the lower interest rate loan. You are not obliged to use the dealership proffered facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 RogerC - 2015-05-16 11:12 AM One thing not mentioned is that going to the dealer with your part ex and (now) a fistfull of cash (albeit from another lender than his) you could have/might have been able to negotiate a better deal. The reason thats not been mentioned is the dealer can offer a better deal if you use his finance as he gets a commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Just to throw my usual curved ball into the equation :D ............. Given that most people who buy campers are past their first flush of youf ;-) ...............Being able to afford the repayments is one thing, but can you afford the time? :-S ......... I base this observation on my parents who went through 6 campers and carried on working until 70 to achieve the nice shiny A class Hymer..........Unfortunately by the time they reached their goal and had the time to use it my mum was dead within 2 years, and my father to unsafe to be allowed to drive his behemoth alone *-)...... Spend your money if you have it...........but don't waste your retirement B-) ............. Just to add this is just a general curved ball and not aimed at the OP ;-)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Just bought a new car and got additional discount for taking out finance. Took the finance and then paid it off with 14 days with a Tesco loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Sydney1 - 2015-05-17 7:53 PM Just bought a new car and got additional discount for taking out finance. Took the finance and then paid it off with 14 days with a Tesco loan. Nowt wrong with finance when used wisely ;-) ...........I bought a Rover Sterling 11 years ago as a semi retirement present to myself, on interest free credit cards :D ................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunseekers2 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Sydney1 - 2015-05-17 7:53 PM Just bought a new car and got additional discount for taking out finance. Took the finance and then paid it off with 14 days with a Tesco loan. Surely isn't this the way to do it. You get your van don't upset the dealer and get your external loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Sydney1 - 2015-05-17 7:53 PM Just bought a new car and got additional discount for taking out finance. Took the finance and then paid it off with 14 days with a Tesco loan. On my car I took out the finance, they gave me £1000 towards the car I paid the first repayment, then paid it off. Never would normally take out finance on a vehicle seems pointless to pay interest on money you have borrowed to by a deprecating asset, a double loss. Prefer to save up until we can afford it, or these days just spend the kids inheritance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I worry for older buyers of motorhomes who buy on credit because of the risk that they might not remain well enough to enjoy their acquisition for long enough for the finicial plan to run its course, but maybe that's what they intend - make hay while the sun shines and worry about the reckoning later. I suppose then it's a case of more fool the finance companies if they lend too much too late in life and without adequate collateral. But I would worry about switching away from the dealer's finance scheme in a last minute way that might appear to him to be a sneaky trick. Most of us buy a motorhome with an expectation of good after sales service from the Dealers, so switching your loan at the last minute, even if you are using your consumer entitlements, is hardly going to encourage the dealer to want to be helpful if you have robbed him of a significant chunk of his profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-16 11:25 AMRogerC - 2015-05-16 11:12 AMOne thing not mentioned is that going to the dealer with your part ex and (now) a fistfull of cash (albeit from another lender than his) you could have/might have been able to negotiate a better deal.The reason thats not been mentioned is the dealer can offer a better deal if you use his finance as he gets a commission. Not necessarily. We saved £4k by offering to buy cash on our MH. Sometimes cash helps with the dealerships liquidity and if you happen to get the timing right you 'can' strike a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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