SOME THOUGHTS ON DOWNSIZING

[Don Madge]

SOME THOUGHTS ON DOWNSIZING Thinking about downsizing? Three years ago due to ill health I could not pass the over 70 medical and we had to downsize from our A class Laika Ecovip 400i (4200 kg M.A.M.). We had had the Laika for two years and had fitted it out for winter touring. Extras we had fitted were two sixty litre LPG tanks for domestic use, a sixty watt solar panel and a Sporty Trailers aluminum back box. As standard the Laika had a 135 litre fridge/freezer, 115 litre fresh water tank, 140 litre waste water tank and a marine toilet of 52 litre capacity. We had just got the van sorted to our satisfaction when we had to part with it. We usually wintered away for four or five months (Jan - May) then an Autumn trip (late Aug - mid Nov) usually seven/eight months continental touring in a year. We had spent Jan - April 2002 in Turkey and returned home via Rhodes, Patras and Venice. The Laika was easy to drive, very spacious to live in and the only drawbacks we found during this extensive trip were difficulties in parking and the impossibility to take it down extremely narrow difficult roads to visit isolated ancient sites. The search then started for a replacement motorhome, two single beds with a reasonable payload. It was a lot harder than we thought it would be. It could not be above 3500kg M.A.M.and we fancied a low profile coachbuilt but on most the payloads were inadequate for our needs. Some payloads were only 250 - 300 kg and we were still looking at fairly large motorhomes. We then started to look at LWB high top vans and after much thought and deliberation we settled for the Timberland Freedom 11 on the LWB Fiat Ducato with a payload of approx 500 kg. We were very apprehensive about laying out over £38,000 and having all our plans go pear shaped. We spent a great deal of time and thought before placing an order for the van. Other vans we considered were the Autosleeper Dueto but this dropped out of contention when we discovered that they were now built on the MWB instead of the LWB chassis. We also considered the Murvi but as they are built in Devon and we live in Yorkshire we decided it was too far to travel if any problems arose and it's layout meant we could not have a back box. Another contender was IH Campers at Ferrybridge. They had very good product and offered to build to our specification but Timberland got the nod as they had the two single bed layout we wanted on the production line when we visited the works. The Timberland has all the same facilities that we had on the Laika. The toilet/shower area is smaller but still as good as many coachbuilts. The cooking facilities are actually better with a small full domestic cooker. The fresh/waste water tanks are smaller but we don't find this a problem. In addition we carry four eight litre water containers for tea/coffee making. We also prefer to fill the sixty litre fresh water tank with these - no long hoses which are often inconvenient any way. Our hobby of chasing the winter sun often means travelling through cold weather before finding the sun. Before the Laika having enough LPG for cooking, heating and the fridge was always a major problem. We chose to have the optional Eberspacher diesel heater fitted at Timberland and later had a MTH Autogas 13kg refillable gas bottle with an external filler installed. This solved all the heating and LPG problems. Our sixty watt solar panel was fixed on the roof, this keeps the two leisure batteries and the engine battery topped up when not on the move. Storage is down from the Laika but we still found room for all the essentials. It wasn't easy but we got there in the end. Sporty Trailers manufactured us a back box which hangs on the rear door which takes care of the loungers and camping equipment. The main thing we had to come to terms with was the downsizing of the fridge/freezer from 135 litres to 60 litres (I'm allowed one cold beer at a time now) it just means you have to shop more frequently. This is not a problem these days even in Turkey/Greece /Morocco. Large supermarkets are fairly frequent and even small village shops are much better stocked than they used to be and local markets are good. General storage had to be juggled until it was right. The main thing being not to take anything not strictly essential (no ballgown or tuxedo). One of our main concerns was the fact that we might be falling over one another all the time. With a bit of thought and cooperation it never happened. Seating is comfortable and we can both lounge with feet up. Sleeping is also comfortable with still room to visit the loo and make tea. If you are thinking of downsizing do your homework first. Sort out your major priorities and look at all the options. If you get It wrong it can be a very expensive mistake. It was forced upon us but now we feel it's done us a favour. It's almost halved our fuel bill, reduced our ferry crossings and we have parked and visited places we would not have thought possible in the past. So our freedom has increased. A five month tour of Turkey, Italy, Sardinia, Corsica and Austria went quickly without a hitch and all we could say about it was - this is even better than it used to be!!!

[howie]

Not everyones cup of tea Don but I agree on just about everything you have said. Of course you miss the extra space while sited but this is more than compensated by the other benefits of owning a van conversion. No need to go over what you have already stated, but with decent family cars costing around the £20000 mark these days you have a true dual purpose vehicle. No doubling up on running costs and storage, or problems associated with long periods of inactivity where you are trying to justify the outlay, plus as in our case a van that has carried every thing from new beds and mattresses to a full set of triple ladders. Another thing we have noticed is the different approach we have to camping itself. With less space to live in you find that regardless of the weather you are out and about a lot more which is far more sociable. How many times have you seen campers sat in their coachbuilts watching tv etc. on a pleasant summers evening (i,ve often done this myself i,m afraid) instead of out walking, taking in the local attractions or simply enjoying the company of other campers. Our van is sitting on the drive ready to go at a moments notice and while there are obviously some compromises to be made there are no regrets as far as we are concerned on moving back to van conversions. Howard.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

As someone who's considering a compact motorhome perhaps you could enlighten me as to why the Autosleeper was unacceptable to you on a MWB as opposed to a LWB chassis, which I assume means short wheelbase or long?

Thank you.

[Mel E]

The problem with the Duetto is that, popular though it is, it is also a tad small for long continental journeys. I agree with most of what Don says. As he knows, however, we took a different route, getting our van conversion tailor built to my design. A great vdeal more hassle (see MMM june & July issues), but it has proved a godsend, with loads of storage space, the possibility to sleep 4 when necessary and lots of space for 2. And a considerable amount less expensive than Timberland, whose build quality concerned me when I examined their offering (see the review of their bunk bed model in September's Caravan Club Magazine - I've never seen a vehicle so slated for build problems before in any mag!).

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

[QUOTE]Mel E - 2006-10-15 11:18 AM The problem with the Duetto is that, popular though it is, it is also a tad small for long continental journeys. I agree with most of what Don says. As he knows, however, we took a different route, getting our van conversion tailor built to my design. A great vdeal more hassle (see MMM june & July issues), but it has proved a godsend, with loads of storage space, the possibility to sleep 4 when necessary and lots of space for 2. And a considerable amount less expensive than Timberland, whose build quality concerned me when I examined their offering (see the review of their bunk bed model in September's Caravan Club Magazine - I've never seen a vehicle so slated for build problems before in any mag!).[/QUOTE]

I accept that, but I inferred a very different message from what he said, which is, that he changed his mind about a certain motorhome because it was now built on a MWB chassis as opposed to a LWB chassis.

His implication is that it's the same model and presumably the same length but is now on a smaller chassis, which I suppose gives a smaller wheelbase and more of an overhang for the body.

Or am I reading the wrong thing into this? When Autosleepers changed the Duetto from a LWB to a MWB did they also reduce the overall size of the motorhome?

My question was really asking about the merits of the same size motorhome on a longer or shorter chassis.

[Mel B]

Seeing as the Duetto is a van convertion, the fact that it is now built on the MWB chassis and not the LWB chassis will no doubt mean that it is a shorter vehicle, therefore less living space. Unless I've totally got this wrong?!

[howie]

Hi Mel. A rough rule of thumb with the transits is that starting with the m.w.b. each model increases by a foot in length so obviously somethings got to give. When looking at bed lengths we found that on the duetto these were four inches shorter than claimed in the brochure and the advice on trying or measuring youself is as valid as ever whatever model you are looking at. One thing I forgot to mention was problems with damp. On our two previous coachbuilts and caravan before that suffered in varying degrees and this was a major consideration when we decided to return to van conversions. Howard.

[robin]

Don/ Howard / Mel Interesting post. I have always assumed (bad habit, I know) that van conversions are not as well insulated for winter use as (winterised) coachbuilts. How have you found that aspect? BTW, If I remember correctly, I have seen an advert in a French Camping Car mag for a kit to convert the sliding side door into a coachbuilt type door. :->

[howie]

Never had a problem with insulation or keeping warm with either van or coachbuilt Robin apart of course from plugging the gaps around the fridge which seems the norm whatever you buy. Obviously van conversion are easier and quicker to keep warm due to their size. I imagine in the true sense of the word "winterised" the same principles apply regardless of type. Not to sure on the merits of fitting a caravan door as the sliding door can be left open wherever you want and still leaves you with the option when loading large or bulky items. Howard.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]Mel E - 2006-10-15 11:18 AM And a considerable amount less expensive than Timberland, whose build quality concerned me when I examined their offering (see the review of their bunk bed model in September's Caravan Club Magazine - I've never seen a vehicle so slated for build problems before in any mag!).[/QUOTE] Mel, I agree with you that was a very bad write up for Timberland, and it made them sit up. Then all companies have their disasters don't they? The firm that built yours must have had a off day when the buried your ELCB under the furniture 8-) 8-) that will really take some beating :-D :-D Don

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]robin - 2006-10-17 10:26 AM Don/ Howard / Mel Interesting post. I have always assumed (bad habit, I know) that van conversions are not as well insulated for winter use as (winterised) coachbuilts. How have you found that aspect? BTW, If I remember correctly, I have seen an advert in a French Camping Car mag for a kit to convert the sliding side door into a coachbuilt type door. :->[/QUOTE] Robin, Our current van is the most draft free van we have every had. There are no drafts around the cab doors which is unusual for a Fiat. There is less area to heat than a coachbuilt and with our Eberspacher diesel heater we stay very warm even in minus temperatures which we often get on our travels chasing the winter sun. Don.

[howie]

We do get a fair old draught from the vents at the bottom of the cab doors Don (stationary) but as always its important to strike a balance between keeping warm and having the right amount of fresh air circulating. Howard.

[Mel E]

[QUOTE]Don Madge - 2006-10-17 11:09 AM Then all companies have their disasters don't they? The firm that built yours must have had a off day when the buried your ELCB under the furniture 8-) 8-) that will really take some beating :-D :-D Don[/QUOTE] Don, It isn't quite as bad as you suggest: the ELCB is accessible behind a cupboard door in a top cupboard. But I agree - the switches could have been a bit easier to get at, even though you only need access when there's a problem. On the insulation point, all van conversions should be very well insulated. Ours certainly is. Without insulation, the metal walls and roof would continually be dripping with condensation. Like many van conversions ours is also 'winterised' - the fresh tank is inboard (under a seat) together with all the plumbing and the waste water tank underneath has a thermostatically controlled heating element installed. Fine for skiing trips and the like, though I wouldn't like to test it (or me, come to that) in -40C or worse!