StuartO Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I have a C1+E licence, so I can drive a vehicle of up to 7.5 tons and tow a trailer with it, except that the combination must not exceed 8.25 tons. I am in process of buying a 7.5 ton motorhome and we tow a car on a trailer which weights up to 1.4 tons, so with the new motorhome the combined weight would exceed the restriction. I could limit the payload I carry in the MH by 650kg or take whatever test is required to have the restriction removed, so I looked into having the restriction removed. DVSA, the testing authority, said they don't have a specific test for upgrading trailer entitlement, so I should talk to DVLA. DVLA said that because they have no record of me ever taking a test to get my C1+E entitlement, I first need to take a test for C1, then take a trailer-towing test for C1+E. You cannot take the trailer test without first taking the C1 test, even if you already have a C1+E licence. If I had ever taken a C1 driving test, no matter how long ago, it wouldn't matter, I could presumably then simply take a trailer test. When I was taught to drive by the Army in 1962/3 it was in a lorry and I passed my test in a lorry. I subsequently drove a selection of military lorries over a number of years, including large recovery tractors, all of which in those days were covered by an ordinary driving licence because that's all there was in those days. In the years since then DVLA have introduced HGV licences etc, a category which I was never given an opportunity to retain and, since I never needed a civilian HGV licence, never bothered about the new restrictions which my driving licence attracted. A DVLA record of me having done a civilian HGV test would solve the problem, but because they have no record of whether I passed my test in a lorry in 1963, despite the fact that I still hold a C1+E licence now, I have to do the lorry test first. So because DVLA don't have complete records, I have to start from scratch, do a theory test, then a C1 test, then a trailer test, including stuff like securing lorry loads correctly. All to tow an extra few kilograms of a trailer. Wonderful isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Not being personal, but I would hope a 70 year old driving a nine ton rig had been trained and tested to be on the road. Just for my own peace of mind. (I'm the same age and drive a Jaguar XJ and Mini Cooper s, but a rig that big would worry me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 StuartO - 2015-04-24 8:52 AM ... DVLA said that because they have no record of me ever taking a test to get my C1+E entitlement, Stuart, They won't have any records as you got your licence before the 'cut-off' date (1997 from memory) for what we call 'Grandfather rights'. I took my car test in the 1970's and also have C1+E without having taken any further test. If you have C1+E on your licence then you have the rights to drive up to 7.5 tonnes plus a 750 kg trailer without any further tests. A question, can you operate your new MH at 6.85 Tonnes? If so why not downplate it and then you will remain within the law when towing your 1.4 Tonne trailer. This will save all the hassle of HGV training and tests. If not you will have to go for a full Class C (HGV) training and test with all the costs and effort involved. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 ..or , as you're only "in the process" of buying it, wouldn't an obvious option be to just buy one that will allow you to tug the trailer/car AND remain under the 8.25t train weight threshold?... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Point of order, HGV license has been around for 80 years, but just because a vehicle is big and heavy doesn't mean it was classified as HGV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Billggski - 2015-04-24 11:20 AM Not being personal, but I would hope a 70 year old driving a nine ton rig had been trained and tested to be on the road. Just for my own peace of mind. (I'm the same age and drive a Jaguar XJ and Mini Cooper s, but a rig that big would worry me) The age at which you become incapable of driving is an entirely personal thing, isn't it? Which is why you have to have a medical to keep your C1+E entitlement beyond age 70, as I have had to do. And people vary enormously in their driving ability at all ages anyway, don't they? But I can afford a big MH so if I feel able to cope with it I'll buy one, even if I do end up selling it again in only a few years. I've also taken the trouble to do a voluntary driving assesment in our current MH recently, which I seem to have got through without difficulty. I'm well aware that I'm at risk of deteriorating faculties and I will be keeping the situation under review - as will DVLA of course because I have to renew every three years from now on. My schoolboy physics is far too rusty to work out the figures but isn't the kinetic energy calculated as ½mv², so velocity is much more important than mass. Isn't a Jaguar XJ or a Mini Cooper going out of control at 70 or 80 mph likely to be at least as dangerous as a 9 ton MH rig moving much more slowly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Puzzled, c1 e allows up to 12,000kg afaik. P.S. Just checked, it's c1 without e that is limited to 750kg trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 colin - 2015-04-24 2:49 PM Puzzled, c1 e allows up to 12,000kg afaik. P.S. Just checked, it's c1 without e that is limited to 750kg trailer. Well spotted Colin, I had just gone with what Stuart said in his OP :$ Quote from Gov.uk... Link "C1+E Category C1 vehicles with trailers over 750kg; the fully-loaded trailer can’t weigh more than the vehicle and combined weight of vehicle and trailer can’t be over 12,000kg" So Stuart, you are perfectly OK with your current license. Result :-) Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 With 'grandfather' rights you are limited to 8250 kg. If you actually pass a C1+E test then you can go to 12000 kg. Plus, I believe that if you want to drive a motorhome of a MAM of 7.5 tonnes you need a C licence not a C1. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 AlanS - 2015-04-24 7:18 PM With 'grandfather' rights you are limited to 8250 kg. If you actually pass a C1+E test then you can go to 12000 kg. Plus, I believe that if you want to drive a motorhome of a MAM of 7.5 tonnes you need a C licence not a C1. Alan Alan, I have to agree :$ If your license was issued prior to January 1997 then your Grandfather rights will have a 'Restriction Code 107' attached to it. This code reads... "107 - not more than 8,250 kilograms" So you are absolutely correct. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hi Saved me looking it up! CODE 107 removes the right to 12tonne UNLESS a test is taken and passed. Had YEARS of arguing this point!. Now IF it was a minibus your current licence WOULD allow it!! D1+E allows Gross of 12t. WITHOUT the need for a further test!. I let my HGV go at 68. And now would have to have an (expensive, for a pensioner) Medical JUST to retain C1+E! Never mind a full HGV!. P*****es me off!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 This link provides a more comprehensive (and comprehensible) summary of UK licence categories http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/licence/category.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-04-25 8:02 AM This link provides a more comprehensive (and comprehensible) summary of UK licence categories http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/licence/category.html Thats interesting, the .gov website makes no mention of the 8.25t restriction for those having 'grandfather rights. https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories So it seems a test might have to be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 ...I think this other page makes things (a little) more clear (or maybe not): https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories (and there appears to be an interesting difference in this area between pre-86 and post-86 licenses ??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 colin - 2015-04-25 9:14 AM Thats interesting, the .gov website makes no mention of the 8.25t restriction for those having 'grandfather rights. https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories Yes it does Colin, there is a large warning at the top of the page... "! Your entitlements may have additional restrictions. Check the restriction codes for your driving licence." And the next page linked, old license categories then makes it clear if your license was issued prior to January 1997. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I don't have any restriction codes next to my C1+E, but looking throu the list I can see the code that might restrict it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Useful information, I checked my plastic licence and have now noted the 107 after the C1+E category. I now realise what this means but had no notification that I had a restriction. Also it clicked why so many motorhomers tow Smart cars, about the only ones that are under 750K. Just to repeat an earlier thread, the C1 medical can only cost £50 if you use an HGV doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 A useful link for motorhomers from Gov.UK which explains most if not all. https://www.gov.uk/driving-motorhome Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Just to seek clarification on the trailer weight in that a C1 allows you to tow a trailer whose weight must not exceed 750kg, "unloaded ?" When the trailer is loaded the total weight of the MH + trailer + trailer load must not exceed the designed total specified MAM for the MH ? Mention was made of the need for a C1+E to tow a Smart car on a trailer, but is this accurate? My concerns all relate to the 70+ situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yes, it's complicated isn't it? As I read it you were given a C1+E licence when you passed your original car test many years ago. This will expire when you get to 70 unless you take a medical and fill in the appropriate forms. If you don't, and keep your B licence for cars, you are limited to 3500K, including a trailer up to 750K loaded. If you do take the medical you can go up to 8250K. (Code 107). Anything bigger and you need to obtain a provisional C1+E, pay for training and take a test, expensive. A smart car and trailer would be about 1000K, but the car itself is 730K, so by towing it you could just fit in to the B licence rules, but an Aygo or similar would be too heavy. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 It does get better, though, so there is hope! :-) I have a new, post 1/1/13, licence, with entitlement to drive up to 7,500kg (C1), or 8,250kg with trailer (C1E). The C1E restriction code is 79 (which restricts driving to the combined weight shown immediately following in brackets). The bracketed restriction is: (=<8250KG), so up to and including 8,250kg, and this is all shown on the licence itself. Much better, and clearer, IMO, than a somewhat arcane restriction code of 107. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Thanks for info. My MH is 3850 kg and I have arranged for medical. It would look that If I get C1 this should cover me for towing Smart car. Can I just tick the C1+E box which would cover me for say a heavier MH? C1+E currently on license Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJA Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Just to try and correct a comment earlier. If at 70 you forgoe, on your pre 1997 licence, your C and above categories you retain both B and B+E categories and the latter allows you to pull a trailer above 750kg limited only by the gross train weight on the vehicles plate. Ie if your plate says the max weight of your vehicle is 3500kg and the max train weight is 5000kg you can tow a trailer up to 1500kg. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 DJA - 2015-05-03 12:03 PM Just to try and correct a comment earlier. If at 70 you forgoe, on your pre 1997 licence, your C and above categories you retain both B and B+E categories and the latter allows you to pull a trailer above 750kg limited only by the gross train weight on the vehicles plate. Ie if your plate says the max weight of your vehicle is 3500kg and the max train weight is 5000kg you can tow a trailer up to 1500kg. Doug Thanks, I understand that, but if MH is over 3500kg then you need to retain C1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJA Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 It was the advice from Billggski I was referring to as he had not covered the B + E that remains if you renew a pre 1997 licence at 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.