Newbie -- Swift Escape 624 questions / answers?

[AWP]

Hi All---

 

Please help (like you do) as only just looking into / starting the MH dream - this year with a bit of luck :-)

 

6mths internet research and reading so far, dealer visits, plus visited NEC Oct14 & Feb15 and Peterborough Show for 2days.To try and talk to Swift MH owners but only a handful there so not enough to help me decide.

 

Also read (twice so far) "Go Motorhoming and Campervanning" from Vicarious Books.

 

Plus we hired the Swift Escape 624 for 5days over Easter, confirming it ticks all we need right now in a MH.

 

Sorry but first question is regarding Swift water ingress (duck - web feet anyone!), is it really that bad now?

I am aware of the 2006-2009 approx Swift Sundance design (floor / step / side panels etc etc) and build quality problem's causing major damp / rot problems!!!

 

But I am hoping the Swift Escape 624 around 2010-2011 is not that bad now for damp / build quality, compared to the European / German MH's - always being stated on internet forums as better.

 

As indicated above I have considered quite a few makes / models, but the Swift Escape 624 layout / size does come top of the list right now (only one on the list really), just don't want to buy a sponge!

 

I have a damp Meter and would get an independant check done, but hoping most of you :-D say Swift not that bad now from 2010 onwards?

 

If most of you tell me not to go for the 624 then not sure as can't find same in another manuf / model so far.

 

Thanks for reading and look forward to your comments with interest.

 

Kind regards, Allan

(20min from Reading, Berkshire)

 

 

[AliB]

Hi Allan,

 

I have a Swift Sundance 630L bought new in 2008. No problems with damp. Swift are by far the biggest seller of motorhomes in the UK. You only tend to hear about the vehicles that have gone wrong. Any motorhome can develop damp areas, over the years reading this forum there have been a number of posts referring all sorts of motorhomes including German makes that have suffered from damp.

[rupert123]

Totally agree with post above, have had four UK built vans since 2008 and none have suffered from damp. Have it damp tested and if clear it is likely to be fine.

[Steve1087]

We have a Swift 624, its a 2011 and we love it. Last year we had a damp problem fixed around the rear window. It was a bit of a downer but didn't cost much to sort because it was caught early. Apparently its a known problem and is due to a defective seal. If you go for a 624 I'd get this checked before committing.

Other than that hiccup the van has been brilliant.

We love the flexible layout and I like the fact that the drivers seat doesn't swivel, being long bodied and staring through the top of the windscreen on vans fitted with a swivelling drivers seat.

Its our 2nd coach built motorhome and like you we scoured the shows and motorhome dealers but the 624 was the best for layout by far.

[lennyhb]

Swift have a long history of damp problems going back over 30 years, personalty I wouldn't touch anything British built.

Far better to spend your money on a decent German van, much less chance of any damp problems.

[PJay]

Hi Allen

We have a Swift Sundance 2006. Yes it did have damp prob lems (floor), but Swift replaced it out of warranty, (only cost to us , was getting to factory and back)and now as dry as a bone, and we are very happy with it, layout etc, just what we like. Why buy German, as many keep advising on here? Help the british economy, not the German! Why do so many of the people who buy German, keep changing their vans?

PJay

[rupert123]

lennyhb - 2015-04-30 3:16 PM

 

Swift have a long history of damp problems going back over 30 years, personalty I wouldn't touch anything British built.

Far better to spend your money on a decent German van, much less chance of any damp problems.

Lennie is unfortunately about tens years out of date. He persists in buying German with their outdated construction methods and poor equipment levels, constantly knocks UK vans, probably trying to convince himself they are still the best (lol)

[Brock]

The way Swift have been designing/building motorhomes before they introduced 'SMART' construction [from 2014 for caravans, 2015 for motorhomes] means their vans are more likely to leak than say some premium continental vans or even Auto Sleeper. It is how much they leak and how many are affected that is open to debate [they do sell a lot of motorhomes in the UK].

 

Unfortunately, I doubt you will get a response that will settle your mind one way or another. I'm in the "Don't touch them" simply because the risk is too high for me. However, and to be fair, a sound Swift can give you many happy years of motorhoming.

 

What is it you like about the Swift Escape? Tell us and we might be able to generate some alternatives. Also, tell us who and how many will use the van and where will it be used. Plus your budget.

 

From what I know of the Escape range, it is a low budget, good value, family range of motorhomes with some models on the 3300kg chassis which I would avoid. Looks good and when new, it gets good write ups. Did the 624 have a luton, centre dinette, lounge settee with rear kitchen? If so, it is a common family layout.

 

[Brock]

People like me buy German because my first UK van [Elddis] started to fall apart after two years, my subsequent two Swifts both had water ingress and both lasted two years before frustration with build quality got the better of me. These were in the 90s.

 

I had my first German van for five years without any build problems and no water ingress [changed to celebrate our silver wedding]. My next I had for 8 years with no build problems or water ingress [changed to celebrate retirement]. Thirteen years of using a well built van with no water ingress is why I won't touch a UK van other than possibly an Auto Sleeper [layouts don't suit us]. UK vans are undoubtedly far better than in the 90s and there are many happy owners. Yet I cannot see any overriding reason for me to get one. Other people's experiences will be different.

[Steve928]

rupert123 - 2015-04-30 6:08 PM

 

lennyhb - 2015-04-30 3:16 PM

Far better to spend your money on a decent German van, much less chance of any damp problems.

 

Lennie is unfortunately about tens years out of date. He persists in buying German with their outdated construction methods and poor equipment levels, constantly knocks UK vans, probably trying to convince himself they are still the best (lol)

 

Agreed, here's one example from yesterday. Can find plenty more..

[AWP]

Hi AliB,

 

Thank you for your promt reply most appreciated, one in the Swift camp so great news so far!

 

May I ask have you used you own damp Meter, inside the long bench seat low down on wall just in front of the wheel arch? Plus outside under MH on the floor around the electric step mounting bolts area? Plus again outside on floor at very rear of MH for examples?

 

Reason I ask is to know if you have damp checked yourself, or relying on dealer saying no damp in these area's?

 

I had a look at a 2007 Swift Sundance today (rear kitchen layout same as Swift Escape 624) and YES major damp / rot in these area examples, my damp meter went off the scale showing 35-50% damp readings.

 

However it is age 2007 after all and should all be replaceable / repairable as best l could judge, but how many £k's not sure but hopefully £2k-£3k max via a dealer - who knows?

 

Swift Sundance not the MH I want so only used it to judge such damp issues / practice with my £20 damp meter, for when I find some 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624 to check over as yes the 624 same layout is great for us as well etc.

 

Sorry for long comments / questions, but devil in the detail as they say.

 

 

[AWP]

Thanks Rupert123..... what were the four MH you owned?

[AWP]

Hi Steve1087,

 

Thanks this is further great news, as you can tell we are also very keen on the Swift Escape 624. It is such a great & flexible family layout in just a 6.30mtr long MH.

 

The window seals are another issue I read about but easy to purchase new rubber seal and fit, just need to catch any such damp early to avoid major wall damp / rot developing. Hence reason I purchased my own £20 damp meter etc.

 

If not too much trouble would you consider checking your MH with a £20 approx damp meter yourself, as I have indicated / requested of AliB above as again keen to get your results / feedback?

 

Many thanks, Allan

 

[AWP]

Hi Lenny,

 

Please believe me when I say I truly appreciate your reply, I am aware from reading some of your other / historical comments that you are not into UK MH.

 

But my problem is the Swift Escape 624 layout is really flexible / perfect for a family of 4 like us. So hopefully I decide to take the risk and find a damp / rot free one. Then check every month at least with my own £20_ damp meter.

 

Are you able to indicate a European / German MH with a close to Swift Escape 624 layout and 6.30mtr length, as would consider but 6mth research so far has not come across one.

 

So again hoping 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624 out there with no damp right now at least for me to buy / monitor!

[lennyhb]

Brock - 2015-04-30 6:21 PM

 

People like me buy German because my first UK van [Elddis] started to fall apart after two years, my subsequent two Swifts both had water ingress and both lasted two years before frustration with build quality got the better of me. These were in the 90s.

 

I had my first German van for five years without any build problems and no water ingress [changed to celebrate our silver wedding]. My next I had for 8 years with no build problems or water ingress [changed to celebrate retirement]. Thirteen years of using a well built van with no water ingress is why I won't touch a UK van other than possibly an Auto Sleeper [layouts don't suit us]. UK vans are undoubtedly far better than in the 90s and there are many happy owners. Yet I cannot see any overriding reason for me to get one. Other people's experiences will be different.

 

That sums it up well John, why anyone would throw away 50 -100 grand on British crap is beyond me, they can't even produce proper Motorhomes (A-Class).

Hymer have been using the PUAL construction method they inherited since they took over N&B in the 90's still one of the best methods of constructing Motorhomes, and even if there was any water ingress with this method it would be unlikely to cause any damage.

 

 

[AWP]

Hi PJay,

 

Thanks for your reply, as you also indicate Swift do leak / have damp at times. Hence the reason I am trying to bottom out just how bad the Swift Escape 624 is likely to be regarding water ingress these days.

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape (or Sundance) MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - good and bad regarding damp / rot issues.

 

Cheers, Allan

 

[flicka]

Hi AWP - have you checked the technical spec on their website ?

It's a 4 seater & 5 berth van but with 3300kg MTPLM (Maximum Technical Permissable Laden Mass) & 0nly 420kg payload

On top of that (extract from their website "2.The Mass in Running Order is the mass of the unladen vehicle including a 75kg allowance for the driver plus engine coolants and 90% of the fuel tank, water tank and gas capacity.

 

THE MRO is calculated with the fresh water tank empty. If you travel with water in the fresh water tank then the payload will reduce accordingly."

So available payload will be reduced for each litre of water carried & then further by Essential Habitation Equipment (10kg) + any other equipment you may wish to add. Actual available payload may not be a problem for short breaks, but with further reduction of each passengers weight it would be restrictive IMHO for longer holidays.

We had a 2006 Bessacarr E410 (5.86m) on the 3300kg chassis & were usually close to the max with only myself & wife onboard.

 

[PJay]

AWP - 2015-04-30 10:33 PM

 

Hi PJay,

 

Thanks for your reply, as you also indicate Swift do leak / have damp at times. Hence the reason I am trying to bottom out just how bad the Swift Escape 624 is likely to be regarding water ingress these days.

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape (or Sundance) MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - good and bad regarding damp / rot issues.

 

Cheers, Allan

 

Alan

Our problem was a bad batch of floors in 2005, which is why there was no problem in repairing it with a complete new floor, with a guarantee included. We have NO problems with leaks any where else, and having had our van for 9 years now,(and close on 50,000. milles) with no more than usual ware of engine parts, IE cambelt has been changed, clutch has been replaced, tyres etc. Partly because OH has regular service and prefers to change certain items before the go, as we mainly spend our time over the water. We are more than happy with our van, hence that is why we have not changed it (It does what it says on the label)

PJay

[AWP]

Brock - 2015-04-30 6:11 PM

 

The way Swift have been designing/building motorhomes before they introduced 'SMART' construction [from 2014 for caravans, 2015 for motorhomes] means their vans are more likely to leak than say some premium continental vans or even Auto Sleeper. It is how much they leak and how many are affected that is open to debate [they do sell a lot of motorhomes in the UK].

 

Unfortunately, I doubt you will get a response that will settle your mind one way or another. I'm in the "Don't touch them" simply because the risk is too high for me. However, and to be fair, a sound Swift can give you many happy years of motorhoming.

 

What is it you like about the Swift Escape? Tell us and we might be able to generate some alternatives. Also, tell us who and how many will use the van and where will it be used. Plus your budget.

 

From what I know of the Escape range, it is a low budget, good value, family range of motorhomes with some models on the 3300kg chassis which I would avoid. Looks good and when new, it gets good write ups. Did the 624 have a luton, centre dinette, lounge settee with rear kitchen? If so, it is a common family layout.

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks also for your input, I have tried to answer your questions as follows:

 

1. Swift Escape 624 (end kitchen / bathroom with mid lounge) is a very flexible / perfect family layout all in our ideal 6.30mtr length required. There would be my wife and I using it with my 14yr old daughter, plus her friend at times hence the need for 4 seatbelts etc etc. Luton bed loved by my daughter, don't want fixed bed or bunk beds layout type MH etc, happy to make up the 624 lower double bed in less than 5mins and very comfortable for the 5 nights hire recently over Easter. Plus no outside locker doors to risk further damp issues etc. We can travel quite light / compact due to our camping years experience.

I hit 60 last year but still kitesurf like crazy, big kid really, even this kit fits inside the 624 with everything else we need and should stay within the 450kg approx payload available.

 

2. I know I can also do a great DIY modification to turn mid lounge into a very large "L" or "U" shape if and when needed, with very little extra wood panel / seat (removable!) and same type extra backrest / seat cushions. Trust me when I say it can be removed back to standard layout with no marks or drilling etc for selling on when the time comes.

 

3. We plan to MH where we have also camped over the years, this being Cornwall / Scotland / Ireland etc, eventually France & Germany at least in the future with a MH, hence don't want more than 6.3mtr (21ft) long MH due to desire for wild camping out of the way places at times down narrow roads etc with a few campsites thrown in etc etc.

 

4. Due to our first MH don't want new as likely to change once just the 2 of us in years ahead, but if damp controlled may just stay with same MH etc - why change if we find layout / size turns out to be right first time - dream on.

 

5. Hence research so far indicates £22k approx Private and £27k approx Dealer price for a 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624. Plan to avoid Swift Sundance due to design / damp issues 2006-2009 I have mentioned above.

I could buy a new one for around £38k, but right now don't plan to spend more than £30k Max on our first MH. The Swift Escape 624 new in 2011 was only £33k so I feel good value for money if major damp avoided!

 

Why pay £40k-£50k for a MH when most interior woodwork / equipment is the same, just a few extra bits of trim and shinny plastic chrome plated handles - not worth the extra £10k-£20k I feel - just control 624 water ingress and I am happy.

 

 

Look forward to further feedback / help from everyone to hopefully confirm I can live with any Swift Escape 624 water ingress issues that come up.

 

Cheers, Allan

 

[globebuster]

Well, at least you are doing some research, and starting to look for possible problems.

 

From what I witnessed at the NEC a year ago, there were still glaring construction issues on the underside of the Swift Group vans I inspected.

 

SMART construction is a step in the right direction - But the execution, and QC still seems shoddy.

 

I don't have a 'downer' on British vans, and indeed there are some continental manufacturers that seem to be slipping, in what would appear to be a style over substance exercise.

 

I doubt I would ever own a British coachbuilt though...

 

Take a real good hard look underneath any prospective purchase, don't rely solely on a dealers habitation check.

[AWP]

flicka - 2015-04-30 10:52 PM

 

Hi AWP - have you checked the technical spec on their website ?

It's a 4 seater & 5 berth van but with 3300kg MTPLM (Maximum Technical Permissable Laden Mass) & 0nly 420kg payload

On top of that (extract from their website "2.The Mass in Running Order is the mass of the unladen vehicle including a 75kg allowance for the driver plus engine coolants and 90% of the fuel tank, water tank and gas capacity.

 

THE MRO is calculated with the fresh water tank empty. If you travel with water in the fresh water tank then the payload will reduce accordingly."

So available payload will be reduced for each litre of water carried & then further by Essential Habitation Equipment (10kg) + any other equipment you may wish to add. Actual available payload may not be a problem for short breaks, but with further reduction of each passengers weight it would be restrictive IMHO for longer holidays.

We had a 2006 Bessacarr E410 (5.86m) on the 3300kg chassis & were usually close to the max with only myself & wife onboard.

 

Hi Flicka,

 

I am a bit of an attention to detail freek - sorry, so yes already read / aware of your technical info provided above but thank you for the time and effort taken for me.

 

Agree the 350-450kg approx payload will be a key MH compromise (many of them as we all know), but we travel light when camping for 2wks at times so hopefully we can make it work with this 624 limitation.

Hence keen to pay around £22-23k Private 2011 MH 624, with independent full survey £300 approx, just in case the 624 turns out not to be as perfect as we think / hope for us right now.

 

Getting a little sleepy now so hope all the above typing makes sense to you all - please keep the info / comments / advise coming!

 

Flicka you quote "So many interests so little time" - go on skip sleep for some more time ;-) night night!

 

 

[AWP]

PJay - 2015-04-30 11:11 PM

 

AWP - 2015-04-30 10:33 PM

 

Hi PJay,

 

Thanks for your reply, as you also indicate Swift do leak / have damp at times. Hence the reason I am trying to bottom out just how bad the Swift Escape 624 is likely to be regarding water ingress these days.

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape (or Sundance) MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - good and bad regarding damp / rot issues.

 

Cheers, Allan

 

Alan

Our problem was a bad batch of floors in 2005, which is why there was no problem in repairing it with a complete new floor, with a guarantee included. We have NO problems with leaks any where else, and having had our van for 9 years now,(and close on 50,000. milles) with no more than usual ware of engine parts, IE cambelt has been changed, clutch has been replaced, tyres etc. Partly because OH has regular service and prefers to change certain items before the go, as we mainly spend our time over the water. We are more than happy with our van, hence that is why we have not changed it (It does what it says on the label)

PJay

 

Hi PJay,

Yes I think the 2005 time period floor was the one with the blue plastic cover, once damaged / split etc for any reason then water got in and stayed in rotting out the floor big time. Swift went back to treated black plywood after that I believe - still not ideal but does dry out better I believe once rain stops!

 

So far I am still keen to find / buy a damp free 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624 so please keep your input's coming everyone to help me decide.....

Cheers, Allan

 

[AWP]

PJay - 2015-04-30 11:11 PM

 

AWP - 2015-04-30 10:33 PM

 

Hi PJay,

 

Thanks for your reply, as you also indicate Swift do leak / have damp at times. Hence the reason I am trying to bottom out just how bad the Swift Escape 624 is likely to be regarding water ingress these days.

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape (or Sundance) MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - good and bad regarding damp / rot issues.

 

Cheers, Allan

 

Alan

Our problem was a bad batch of floors in 2005, which is why there was no problem in repairing it with a complete new floor, with a guarantee included. We have NO problems with leaks any where else, and having had our van for 9 years now,(and close on 50,000. milles) with no more than usual ware of engine parts, IE cambelt has been changed, clutch has been replaced, tyres etc. Partly because OH has regular service and prefers to change certain items before the go, as we mainly spend our time over the water. We are more than happy with our van, hence that is why we have not changed it (It does what it says on the label)

PJay

 

Hi PJay,

Yes I think the 2005 time period floor was the one with the blue plastic cover, once damaged / split etc for any reason then water got in and stayed in rotting out the floor big time. Swift went back to treated black plywood after that I believe - still not ideal but does dry out better I believe once rain stops!

 

So far I am still keen to find / buy a damp free 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624 so please keep your input's coming everyone to help me decide.....

Cheers, Allan

 

[AWP]

globebuster - 2015-05-01 12:17 AM

 

Well, at least you are doing some research, and starting to look for possible problems.

 

From what I witnessed at the NEC a year ago, there were still glaring construction issues on the underside of the Swift Group vans I inspected.

 

SMART construction is a step in the right direction - But the execution, and QC still seems shoddy.

 

I don't have a 'downer' on British vans, and indeed there are some continental manufacturers that seem to be slipping, in what would appear to be a style over substance exercise.

 

I doubt I would ever own a British coachbuilt though...

 

Take a real good hard look underneath any prospective purchase, don't rely solely on a dealers habitation check.

 

Hi Globebuster,

May I ask what do you feel the glaring construction issues were under the Swift MH you got under at the NEC in 2014? Plus which particular Swift MH's, did it include the Swift Escape range?

Cheers, Allan

 

 

 

[AliB]

AWP - 2015-04-30 8:33 PM

May I ask have you used you own damp Meter, inside the long bench seat low down on wall just in front of the wheel arch? Plus outside under MH on the floor around the electric step mounting bolts area? Plus again outside on floor at very rear of MH for examples?

 

 

I do have a damp meter and do carry out checks from time to time as well as having a dealer annual check. I will check the spots you mentioned, assuming I remember to take the meter from work home with me.