Newbie -- Swift Escape 624 questions / answers?

[rupert123]

AWP - 2015-04-30 9:11 PM

 

Thanks Rupert123..... what were the four MH you owned?

The UK built ones are one Autosleeper, one Autocruise, two Swifts, both these were Sundance models. Total problems with all four were, one fridge problem on gas, one electric step which stopped working, that's it. Before these we had a Hymer, now some seem to like these low spec. overrated vans but I do not, the one we had was constant trouble and dealers in the UK almost non existent. People can argue about this all they like but you have to look at the facts. Almost all vans sold in the UK are British built ones, it follows that they will get most complaints, Germans vans sold in the UK you can count on the fingers of one hand yet you still get complaints about them, just one noted on this thread, and if you check you will find many more. If companies like Swift were as bad as the UK knockers say they would have gone bust a long time ago. They offer a ten years damp ingress warranty, which some Germans companies also now do, and better still they have a long record of honouring this warranty with dealers all over the UK. Again they could not do this and remain solvent if the complaints were on the level some would have you believe. A long time ago German vans were indeed the best but while they have not progressed, still use same old building methods, the UK makers have advanced in massive leaps. Inside the equipment used is basically all the same wherever the van comes from except in most euro vans you will have a problem if you like food, all they usually supply is two hob rings. You can sometimes get this improved by spending even more money to upgrade them or rush out and fill your van with alternative cooking methods. Anyway the Swift you are looking at will have a ten year water ingress warranty so if it is dry, which it almost certainly will be, why even worry about it, just check the warranty requirements have been upheld.

[AWP]

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 9:56 AM

 

AWP - 2015-04-30 9:11 PM

 

Thanks Rupert123..... what were the four MH you owned?

The UK built ones are one Autosleeper, one Autocruise, two Swifts, both these were Sundance models. Total problems with all four were, one fridge problem on gas, one electric step which stopped working, that's it. Before these we had a Hymer, now some seem to like these low spec. overrated vans but I do not, the one we had was constant trouble and dealers in the UK almost non existent. People can argue about this all they like but you have to look at the facts. Almost all vans sold in the UK are British built ones, it follows that they will get most complaints, Germans vans sold in the UK you can count on the fingers of one hand yet you still get complaints about them, just one noted on this thread, and if you check you will find many more. If companies like Swift were as bad as the UK knockers say they would have gone bust a long time ago. They offer a ten years damp ingress warranty, which some Germans companies also now do, and better still they have a long record of honouring this warranty with dealers all over the UK. Again they could not do this and remain solvent if the complaints were on the level some would have you believe. A long time ago German vans were indeed the best but while they have not progressed, still use same old building methods, the UK makers have advanced in massive leaps. Inside the equipment used is basically all the same wherever the van comes from except in most euro vans you will have a problem if you like food, all they usually supply is two hob rings. You can sometimes get this improved by spending even more money to upgrade them or rush out and fill your van with alternative cooking methods. Anyway the Swift you are looking at will have a ten year water ingress warranty so if it is dry, which it almost certainly will be, why even worry about it, just check the warranty requirements have been upheld.

 

Hi Rupert123,

This is great, Swift not looking bad at all based on your advise / experience. Agree buying new would get me the 10 year warranty, but as I have indicated above looking to buy secondhand 2010-2011 Swift Escape 624 so the 3 year warranty will have expired hence trying to better judge qty on market with / without damp etc. YES I could buy a 2012 one which starts with a 6 year warranty for a second owner etc but then purchase cost almost the same as a new one - hence my request for more info / help to decide which second hand year I go for 2010 / 2011 / 2012 etc etc.

Cheers, Allan

[AWP]

AliB - 2015-05-01 9:49 AM

 

AWP - 2015-04-30 8:33 PM

May I ask have you used you own damp Meter, inside the long bench seat low down on wall just in front of the wheel arch? Plus outside under MH on the floor around the electric step mounting bolts area? Plus again outside on floor at very rear of MH for examples?

 

 

I do have a damp meter and do carry out checks from time to time as well as having a dealer annual check. I will check the spots you mentioned, assuming I remember to take the meter from work home with me.

 

Great, many thanks.......

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 9:56 AM.................... A long time ago German vans were indeed the best but while they have not progressed, still use same old building methods, the UK makers have advanced in massive leaps. Inside the equipment used is basically all the same wherever the van comes from except in most euro vans you will have a problem if you like food, all they usually supply is two hob rings. You can sometimes get this improved by spending even more money to upgrade them or rush out and fill your van with alternative cooking methods. Anyway the Swift you are looking at will have a ten year water ingress warranty so if it is dry, which it almost certainly will be, why even worry about it, just check the warranty requirements have been upheld.

Hugely misleading, IMO! Henry (Rupert123) is making sweeping generalisations, based on very out dated information.

 

Not all German made vans are made in the same way, some are way ahead of even the most up-to date of UK made vans, and a number have for years completely eliminated the use of timber frames (which is the system I assume he considers old fashioned) from their structures. Beyond that, their techniques for assembly and panel sealing exceed anything available from UK manufacturers except perhaps Bailey. But, not all German made vans follow this model, and it is far more instructive to concentrate on the products of specific manufacturers, and even specific model ranges, than to try to generalise on the basis of country of origin. As with all things, some are better than others.

 

On the question of cooking facilities, continental made vans seldom include grills or ovens. But few coachbuilt continental vans, low profile or Luton bodied, include only two gas burners, the great majority providing three even if bought outside the UK. Most imported and sold through UK dealerships in RHD form will have ovens added - but not always very well incorporated. Be especially wary of the so-called Tech-towers - where an oven is installed above a fridge-freezer, making the oven far to high for safety, IMO. However, whether absence of an oven implies good food cannot be produced is purely a matter of opinion - possibly even prejudice! Many thousands of French and Italian housewives seem to think they can produce decent meals without an oven, and I have yet to see evidence that their families are in open revolt over their meals! I think ovens in 'vans a complete waste of space, as we have no intention of sitting around while the oven does its job. Simple, quick, easy cooking is the rule while away, but it is always good! :-D

 

[Poppy]

Brian Kirby - 2015-05-01 12:30 PM

 

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 9:56 AM.................... A long time ago German vans were indeed the best but while they have not progressed, still use same old building methods, the UK makers have advanced in massive leaps. Inside the equipment used is basically all the same wherever the van comes from except in most euro vans you will have a problem if you like food, all they usually supply is two hob rings. You can sometimes get this improved by spending even more money to upgrade them or rush out and fill your van with alternative cooking methods. Anyway the Swift you are looking at will have a ten year water ingress warranty so if it is dry, which it almost certainly will be, why even worry about it, just check the warranty requirements have been upheld.

Hugely misleading, IMO! Henry (Rupert123) is making sweeping generalisations, based on very out dated information.

 

Not all German made vans are made in the same way, some are way ahead of even the most up-to date of UK made vans, and a number have for years completely eliminated the use of timber frames (which is the system I assume he considers old fashioned) from their structures. Beyond that, their techniques for assembly and panel sealing exceed anything available from UK manufacturers except perhaps Bailey. But, not all German made vans follow this model, and it is far more instructive to concentrate on the products of specific manufacturers, and even specific model ranges, than to try to generalise on the basis of country of origin. As with all things, some are better than others.

 

On the question of cooking facilities, continental made vans seldom include grills or ovens. But few coachbuilt continental vans, low profile or Luton bodied, include only two gas burners, the great majority providing three even if bought outside the UK. Most imported and sold through UK dealerships in RHD form will have ovens added - but not always very well incorporated. Be especially wary of the so-called Tech-towers - where an oven is installed above a fridge-freezer, making the oven far to high for safety, IMO. However, whether absence of an oven implies good food cannot be produced is purely a matter of opinion - possibly even prejudice! Many thousands of French and Italian housewives seem to think they can produce decent meals without an oven, and I have yet to see evidence that their families are in open revolt over their meals! I think ovens in 'vans a complete waste of space, as we have no intention of ?od! :-D

And house husbands? Brian

[Poppy]

I would be more concerned about the payload especially as you wish to wild camp and will therefore probably need a tankful of water and may need to carry a fullish toilet until you can find proper toilet disposal facilities.

[AliB]

Oh look Sir Bradley Wiggins has bought a Swift motorhome.

 

Bigger images here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gallery-wiggins-trains-with-new-team-before-tour-de-yorkshire

 

I bet Ben Swift from Team Sky is jealous.

[Brian Kirby]

Poppy - 2015-05-01 1:00 PM...................And house husbands? Brian

Ahem. As they say, "for the avoidance of doubt, the feminine includes the masculine, and vice versa"! No other questions m'Lady!! :-D

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2015-05-01 12:30 PM

 

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 9:56 AM.................... A long time ago German vans were indeed the best but while they have not progressed, still use same old building methods, the UK makers have advanced in massive leaps. Inside the equipment used is basically all the same wherever the van comes from except in most euro vans you will have a problem if you like food, all they usually supply is two hob rings. You can sometimes get this improved by spending even more money to upgrade them or rush out and fill your van with alternative cooking methods. Anyway the Swift you are looking at will have a ten year water ingress warranty so if it is dry, which it almost certainly will be, why even worry about it, just check the warranty requirements have been upheld.

Hugely misleading, IMO! Henry (Rupert123) is making sweeping generalisations, based on very out dated information.

 

Not all German made vans are made in the same way, some are way ahead of even the most up-to date of UK made vans, and a number have for years completely eliminated the use of timber frames (which is the system I assume he considers old fashioned) from their structures. Beyond that, their techniques for assembly and panel sealing exceed anything available from UK manufacturers except perhaps Bailey. But, not all German made vans follow this model, and it is far more instructive to concentrate on the products of specific manufacturers, and even specific model ranges, than to try to generalise on the basis of country of origin. As with all things, some are better than others.

 

On the question of cooking facilities, continental made vans seldom include grills or ovens. But few coachbuilt continental vans, low profile or Luton bodied, include only two gas burners, the great majority providing three even if bought outside the UK. Most imported and sold through UK dealerships in RHD form will have ovens added - but not always very well incorporated. Be especially wary of the so-called Tech-towers - where an oven is installed above a fridge-freezer, making the oven far to high for safety, IMO. However, whether absence of an oven implies good food cannot be produced is purely a matter of opinion - possibly even prejudice! Many thousands of French and Italian housewives seem to think they can produce decent meals without an oven, and I have yet to see evidence that their families are in open revolt over their meals! I think ovens in 'vans a complete waste of space, as we have no intention of sitting around while the oven does its job. Simple, quick, easy cooking is the rule while away, but it is always good! :-D

Why misleading Brian? I was thinking more of the ali type construction Hymer still use and pray tell me what German makers use more up to date building methods than either Swift or Elddis do and explain what they are please. There is not a decent top class kitchen in any restaurant anywhere that does not use an oven. However pleased you are happy to buy second best, as I have said before when the Germans want some decent motoring engineering done they have to come to the UK to have it built, like Mercedes F1 team cars. (lol)

[Brock]

Allan, you seem to have your heart set on an Escape. You are willing to accept the damp risk and the compromises that go with this particular model [all motorhomes are compromises]. The sensible thing to do then is to ensure you keep a reserve of cash to cover for any expenses that may come your way. That's the advice often given to people buying second hand vans - Swift or not!

 

The layout is great for families as I know when we had two boys with us. Make sure you and your wife would be happy sleeping together in the luton. The reason I mention this is that if your daughter and/or friend feel under the weather, they may prefer to sleep downstairs occasionally. We had this problem a few times with our two boys.

 

Keep your eyes open for other models with this layout though. Think about uprating the chassis to 3500kgs.

 

Otherwise, good luck and I hope you have at least as many great family holidays as we did.

[AWP]

Brock - 2015-05-01 6:40 PM

 

Allan, you seem to have your heart set on an Escape. You are willing to accept the damp risk and the compromises that go with this particular model [all motorhomes are compromises]. The sensible thing to do then is to ensure you keep a reserve of cash to cover for any expenses that may come your way. That's the advice often given to people buying second hand vans - Swift or not!

 

The layout is great for families as I know when we had two boys with us. Make sure you and your wife would be happy sleeping together in the luton. The reason I mention this is that if your daughter and/or friend feel under the weather, they may prefer to sleep downstairs occasionally. We had this problem a few times with our two boys.

 

Keep your eyes open for other models with this layout though. Think about uprating the chassis to 3500kgs.

 

Otherwise, good luck and I hope you have at least as many great family holidays as we did.

 

Hi John,

Thanks for your advise, plus good point regarding Luton bed.

Agree I am quite set on the Escape 624 at present, unless I can find similar alternatives to consider?

I have spare cash for damp / rot repair if it comes our way, but any idea worst case cost to repair Sundance historical type damp if it turns up the same on an Escape 624. Hopefully always economical to repair?

 

I know my thread is getting quite long already but please keep the info / feedback coming everyone.

We are so keen to start the MH dream / holidays - can't wait! ??

Cheers, Allan

 

 

[AWP]

Poppy - 2015-05-01 1:02 PM

 

I would be more concerned about the payload especially as you wish to wild camp and will therefore probably need a tankful of water and may need to carry a fullish toilet until you can find proper toilet disposal facilities.

 

Hi Poppy,

Agreed payload not great but I think we can live with the 350 / 450kg available.

Our wild camping will not be too wild as girls not keen, to start with at least, so likely to be just 1-2 nights at a time then run for cover to a EHU campsite for 1-2 nights etc.

Cheers, Allan

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 5:39 PM.................Why misleading Brian?.................

Because I think tarring the entire production of one country with the same brush is misleading, that's all. As I said, some are better than others. So too for UK made vans. I've never claimed they are all bad, it depends on the manufacturer and the model range.

 

However, because of the way the Hymer/Neisman wall panels are made, but more importantly jointed, I think they are better than any currently on offer from UK manufacturers. They are also by now well tried and tested technology, with little record of failure. Pilote also have a similar system that seems to have served well.

 

So far as Swift's or Bailey's techniques are concerned, they are, as yet, untested by time in the hands of normal users. A firm can offer any length of warranty it likes (though I think either Swift's or Baileys (possibly both) is really an insurance, with the risk offloaded to the insurer): overall, I'm more interested in whether the things give trouble in the first place than in how the trouble gets fixed. It will take about 10 years before these "new" techniques can be judged successful or otherwise.

 

Also, bear in mind the system has to be capable of consistent assembly, meaning the production engineering side has to have been well sorted - not always that easy before volume production commences. As above, time will tell.

 

So, I think you have somewhat overstated the advantages of the as yet unproved systems some of the UK firms are adopting, while too readily dismissing the well tried, tested, and proved systems some of the continental firms use. I'm afraid that, to me, amounts to information that is presently misleading. If, however, in ten years time the rest of Europe is beating a path to the UK to learn even better ways to put vans together, no-one will be more pleased than me.

[Ian2000]

Maybe hang on a bit - I am sure Wiggo will be selling the Swift soon !. He had a PVC conversion last year - hes now gone for a coachbuilt - next stop is bound to be an A-class to complete the set. He's obviously hooked and seems to be changing his van more often than some of our regulars. Wonder if he's joined the forum yet ?

[AWP]

Ian2000 - 2015-05-01 10:25 PM

 

Maybe hang on a bit - I am sure Wiggo will be selling the Swift soon !. He had a PVC conversion last year - hes now gone for a coachbuilt - next stop is bound to be an A-class to complete the set. He's obviously hooked and seems to be changing his van more often than some of our regulars. Wonder if he's joined the forum yet ?

 

Don't want it, all those bike bits thrown about inside day after day :-D

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2015-05-01 10:22 PM

 

rupert123 - 2015-05-01 5:39 PM.................Why misleading Brian?.................

Because I think tarring the entire production of one country with the same brush is misleading, that's all. As I said, some are better than others. So too for UK made vans. I've never claimed they are all bad, it depends on the manufacturer and the model range.

 

However, because of the way the Hymer/Neisman wall panels are made, but more importantly jointed, I think they are better than any currently on offer from UK manufacturers. They are also by now well tried and tested technology, with little record of failure. Pilote also have a similar system that seems to have served well.

 

So far as Swift's or Bailey's techniques are concerned, they are, as yet, untested by time in the hands of normal users. A firm can offer any length of warranty it likes (though I think either Swift's or Baileys (possibly both) is really an insurance, with the risk offloaded to the insurer): overall, I'm more interested in whether the things give trouble in the first place than in how the trouble gets fixed. It will take about 10 years before these "new" techniques can be judged successful or otherwise.

 

Also, bear in mind the system has to be capable of consistent assembly, meaning the production engineering side has to have been well sorted - not always that easy before volume production commences. As above, time will tell.

 

So, I think you have somewhat overstated the advantages of the as yet unproved systems some of the UK firms are adopting, while too readily dismissing the well tried, tested, and proved systems some of the continental firms use. I'm afraid that, to me, amounts to information that is presently misleading. If, however, in ten years time the rest of Europe is beating a path to the UK to learn even better ways to put vans together, no-one will be more pleased than me.

Wait a minute Brian, you made a statement saying German vans are way ahead of British ones in building methods, you then rambled on about wood construction which I made no mention of. Again please explain which German vans are way ahead, bringing out the old chestnut about tried and tested methods simply does not work. Even the best methods, although they may be tried and tested, become dated and old fashioned in time, which is exactly what is happening to German built vans.

[rupert123]

One of my posts has been moderated, now I will not upset our moderator further by saying exactly what was taken out but he kindly sent me a pm explaining it was for telling someone what they should eat. This might have upset them, which I doubt, however I feel the moderation was completely ridicules' and it would appear he is set on even very mild exchanges now being stopped. How boring this is becoming, while I agree some of the past personal insults could not be tolerated and I have never resorted to this, the new moderation has gone completely over the top, does common sense no longer prevail anywhere.

[Poppy]

Brian Kirby - 2015-05-01 3:29 PM

 

Poppy - 2015-05-01 1:00 PM...................And house husbands? Brian

Ahem. As they say, "for the avoidance of doubt, the feminine includes the masculine, and vice versa"! No other questions m'Lady!! :-D

MMMMMM :-D

[Brian Kirby]

Poppy - 2015-05-02 12:45 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2015-05-01 3:29 PM

 

Poppy - 2015-05-01 1:00 PM...................And house husbands? Brian

Ahem. As they say, "for the avoidance of doubt, the feminine includes the masculine, and vice versa"! No other questions m'Lady!! :-D

MMMMMM :-D

No, MMM, surely? :-D

[flicka]

AliB - 2015-05-01 2:27 PM

 

Oh look Sir Bradley Wiggins has bought a Swift motorhome.

 

Bigger images here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gallery-wiggins-trains-with-new-team-before-tour-de-yorkshire

 

I bet Ben Swift from Team Sky is jealous.

 

He has, but just not that ONE. The motorhome pictured has been given / donated / sponsored by Swift for TEAM WIGGINS.

There was a fairly recent article (magazine or web - can't remember which) showing Sir Bradley taking delivery of his own new motorhome for family use, which was a Mercedes PVC race van style with Union Jack upholstery.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/british-bus-bradley-wiggins-customised-motorhome-142311

[AWP]

AWP - 2015-05-01 1:39 AM

 

globebuster - 2015-05-01 12:17 AM

 

Well, at least you are doing some research, and starting to look for possible problems.

 

From what I witnessed at the NEC a year ago, there were still glaring construction issues on the underside of the Swift Group vans I inspected.

 

SMART construction is a step in the right direction - But the execution, and QC still seems shoddy.

 

I don't have a 'downer' on British vans, and indeed there are some continental manufacturers that seem to be slipping, in what would appear to be a style over substance exercise.

 

I doubt I would ever own a British coachbuilt though...

 

Take a real good hard look underneath any prospective purchase, don't rely solely on a dealers habitation check.

 

Hi Globebuster,

May I ask what do you feel the glaring construction issues were under the Swift MH you got under at the NEC in 2014? Plus which particular Swift MH's, did it include the Swift Escape range?

Cheers, Allan

 

[/advise

 

Globebuster are you able to advise re NEC, Cheers.....

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - good and bad regarding damp / rot issues.

 

 

[AWP]

AliB - 2015-05-01 9:49 AM

 

AWP - 2015-04-30 8:33 PM

May I ask have you used you own damp Meter, inside the long bench seat low down on wall just in front of the wheel arch? Plus outside under MH on the floor around the electric step mounting bolts area? Plus again outside on floor at very rear of MH for examples?

 

 

I do have a damp meter and do carry out checks from time to time as well as having a dealer annual check. I will check the spots you mentioned, assuming I remember to take the meter from work home with me.

 

 

AliB have you had a chance to check again with your damp meter? Cheers.,....

 

So very keen to get as many Swift Escape MH owners to reply to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - GOOD and BAD regarding damp / rot issues.

 

 

[AWP]

Hi Everyone....

 

I am still so very keen to get as many of you Swift Escape MH owners out there to reply, to try and get a better ratio of MH in the field - GOOD and BAD regarding damp / rot issues?

 

YES keen to buy a 2010 /2011 /2012 Swift Escape 624, but want to better understand the risk of damp in Escape first ( since the Sundance historical issues).

 

Cheers, Allan

[AliB]

It has been raining constantly here for much of the weekend so I have not been inclined to lie under the van.

Reading on the underside around the step fixings 20%. Inside the van above the step 5%.

Reading around the rear floor about 10% on the outside., minimal on the inside.

For comparision the wall of the house was reading 25%!.

However, I did find damp underneath the sink. and slightly behind the fridge. I am pretty certain it is a plumbing leak as the underfloor on the outside below the sink is drier than the inside.

Some investigations to be made.

[AWP]

AliB - 2015-05-04 3:29 PM

 

It has been raining constantly here for much of the weekend so I have not been inclined to lie under the van.

Reading on the underside around the step fixings 20%. Inside the van above the step 5%.

Reading around the rear floor about 10% on the outside., minimal on the inside.

For comparision the wall of the house was reading 25%!.

However, I did find damp underneath the sink. and slightly behind the fridge. I am pretty certain it is a plumbing leak as the underfloor on the outside below the sink is drier than the inside.

Some investigations to be made.

 

Does your 2008 Sundance have the plastic cover on the outside floor, if it does damp / rot could be inside it?!

Check from step bolts to outside edge, hope floor still no worse than the 20% you have found near bolts.

5% inside could be because of 44mm thick floor with cavity between etc, but hopefully you are correct and no serious damp in outside layer of floor.

 

I guess if you have the upgraded floor, plywood treated with black waterproof coating, then hopefully dry once rain stops etc.

 

Hopefully damp under sink / fridge just a leaking pipe / tap etc.