antony1969 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Lovely sunny day here in huddersfield ... and sounds like Eds going Oh what a beautiful morning , oh what a beautiful day .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 antony1969 - 2015-05-08 9:22 AM Lovely sunny day here in huddersfield ... and sounds like Eds going Oh what a beautiful morning , oh what a beautiful day .... Cleggy next? move over Lib Dems........UKIP is now the third party :D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-08 9:18 AM Its a Great result for Scotland. Cameron will borrow even more money to bribe them with because his boss doesn't want to lose Balmoral or Faslane. I can't see that the Scots have much to celebrate today, especially SNP members. Their prospect of leverage at Westminster has just evaporated because Cameron is going to get an overall majority. Clealry Nicola Sturgeon is determined to trun Scotland into a left wing socialist stand-alone Country but I'm yet to be convinced that's what the Scots have voted for, because surely enough of them will realise that the Scottish economy just won't be capable of supporting that sort of independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 StuartO - 2015-05-08 10:19 AM I can't see that the Scots have much to celebrate today, especially SNP members. Their prospect of leverage at Westminster has just evaporated because Cameron is going to get an overall majority. Balmoral and Faslane have not evaporated, which Cameron's boss would lose to an independent Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 StuartO - 2015-05-08 10:19 AM Clealry Nicola Sturgeon is determined to trun Scotland into a left wing socialist stand-alone Country but I'm yet to be convinced that's what the Scots have voted for, because surely enough of them will realise that the Scottish economy just won't be capable of supporting that sort of independence. The Scots don't see it the way you do, because they don't get all their information from the Tory Press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 StuartO - 2015-05-08 10:19 AM Peter James - 2015-05-08 9:18 AM Its a Great result for Scotland. Cameron will borrow even more money to bribe them with because his boss doesn't want to lose Balmoral or Faslane. I can't see that the Scots have much to celebrate today, especially SNP members. Their prospect of leverage at Westminster has just evaporated because Cameron is going to get an overall majority. Clealry Nicola Sturgeon is determined to trun Scotland into a left wing socialist stand-alone Country but I'm yet to be convinced that's what the Scots have voted for, because surely enough of them will realise that the Scottish economy just won't be capable of supporting that sort of independence. The once in a lifetime referendum may take place again pretty soon , if so let's hope it's an overwhelming yes vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 antony1969 - 2015-05-08 12:33 PM The once in a lifetime referendum may take place again pretty soon , if so let's hope it's an overwhelming yes vote It would be if Her Majesty's Government wasn't bribing the Scots to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 One thing to maybe consider is that Cameron has a majority of only 6 seats. In any Parliament there will always be deaths, defections etc and By Elections. We have seen in similar situations in the past that a small majority like that can soon disappear. Then it gets down to an issue by issue situation where the SNP votes may be more relevant. Plus as Cameron has stated, probably wrongly, that he will not do a 3rd Term, then his own Party will want a new leader in place by year 4, so there will be lots of discourse to come from within his own ranks. Again, he may need support from unlikely sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think the vast majority of English folk want rid of the jocks ... A burden on the English tax payers of which thankfully I aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 antony1969 - 2015-05-08 6:06 PM I think the vast majority of English folk want rid of the jocks ... A burden on the English tax payers of which thankfully I aren't Beware what you wish for. You really believe that if Scotland was such a basket case and England would do so well without Scotland, that any of the Parties down south would be jumping at the chance to allow independence?? Why, you should ask, do they keep repeating that we need to stick together?? It has nothing to do with sentiment but all to do with blunt economics and political clout in the world. Try to imagine a messy divorce. What is the result? One party has a poorer outlook while the other is living in a bedsit and paying through the nose etc, and yes, I am being chauvanisitic, but the other gender could apply. Neither will profit in the short term,and that is the time span all politicians look at. All the scenarios envisage a Scottish calamity but one also has to look at the other side of the equation. Firstly England would lose its AAA rating and find its debts much higher per capita, secondly England would no longer be a member of the UN Security Council, which still gives a lot of clout. Thirdly the EU would consider England alongside the smaller nations, and again clout is lost. Fourthly, the US would consider England alongside someone such as Portugal/Greece etc, very quaint but of no importance as its ability to perform as a partner would be crippled. Of course lastly, if England did vote to leave the UK, then it would have even less of a voice anywhere. Now, i do not for sure agree with all the EU does, but as a big nation they listen to us (a bit), a a small nation outside, they would laugh. The other thing to recognise is that the vote for the SNP was by no means a desire to have independence, although we do feel we are perfectly capable of running our own affairs. And it was most certainly nothing to do with any anti English sentiment, whcih was propogated time and again by the English (London) Press. No, it was far more to do with a total disgust at the arrogance displayed towards not only Scotland but outlying parts of the UK by all the London based electorate. I suspect if there was a version of the SNP in the |North East, it would have won the lot. After all UKIP polled a huge number of votes from disaffected people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Dave225 - 2015-05-08 7:57 PM Firstly England would lose its AAA rating Britain lost its AAA credit rating 2 years ago and Bond Yields are now more than 3 times that of Germany, but thats beside the point. Cameron's boss wants to keep Scotland for Balmoral and Faslane - The Government sees its first duty as defending the Government - Money no object when someone else is paying. The Government is so well defended it would still be intact after a nuclear war when there was nobody left to Govern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 One good thing about a Tory majority and 4 million disgruntled UKIP supporters ;-) ............. The EU know they had better offer something better than NO treaty change >:-) ............. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32660871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Dave225 - 2015-05-08 7:57 PM antony1969 - 2015-05-08 6:06 PM I think the vast majority of English folk want rid of the jocks ... A burden on the English tax payers of which thankfully I aren't Beware what you wish for. You really believe that if Scotland was such a basket case and England would do so well without Scotland, that any of the Parties down south would be jumping at the chance to allow independence?? Why, you should ask, do they keep repeating that we need to stick together?? It has nothing to do with sentiment but all to do with blunt economics and political clout in the world. Try to imagine a messy divorce. What is the result? One party has a poorer outlook while the other is living in a bedsit and paying through the nose etc, and yes, I am being chauvanisitic, but the other gender could apply. Neither will profit in the short term,and that is the time span all politicians look at. All the scenarios envisage a Scottish calamity but one also has to look at the other side of the equation. Firstly England would lose its AAA rating and find its debts much higher per capita, secondly England would no longer be a member of the UN Security Council, which still gives a lot of clout. Thirdly the EU would consider England alongside the smaller nations, and again clout is lost. Fourthly, the US would consider England alongside someone such as Portugal/Greece etc, very quaint but of no importance as its ability to perform as a partner would be crippled. Of course lastly, if England did vote to leave the UK, then it would have even less of a voice anywhere. Now, i do not for sure agree with all the EU does, but as a big nation they listen to us (a bit), a a small nation outside, they would laugh. The other thing to recognise is that the vote for the SNP was by no means a desire to have independence, although we do feel we are perfectly capable of running our own affairs. And it was most certainly nothing to do with any anti English sentiment, whcih was propogated time and again by the English (London) Press. No, it was far more to do with a total disgust at the arrogance displayed towards not only Scotland but outlying parts of the UK by all the London based electorate. I suspect if there was a version of the SNP in the |North East, it would have won the lot. After all UKIP polled a huge number of votes from disaffected people.[/ The Scots have in mass numbers voted in a party who's main reason for existence and ultimate goal is Scottish independence A lot of Scots have anti English feelings so I hardly think SNP party members are going to be any different UKIP polled huge numbers because most of those voters dislike immigration and our EU membership , I think most who voted for em would not be able to tell you any other policies the party has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-08 9:14 PM Dave225 - 2015-05-08 7:57 PM Firstly England would lose its AAA rating Britain lost its AAA credit rating 2 years ago and Bond Yields are now more than 3 times that of Germany, but thats beside the point. Cameron's boss wants to keep Scotland for Balmoral and Faslane - The Government sees its first duty as defending the Government - Money no object when someone else is paying. The Government is so well defended it would still be intact after a nuclear war when there was nobody left to Govern. Not exactly true Peter. The UK still retains its AAA rating with one of the three agencies and now the Tories are back unimpeded by Cleggy will probably get the others back on side if the economy keeps booming ahead. As an aside I note the pound has jumped against the euro again after a couple of weeks of slow fall, all good news then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Apparently the new measure of a booming economy is how many food banks there are. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-05-09 11:34 AM the economy keeps booming ahead. How can you take Government Statistics seriously when they count rent increases as GDP 'Growth' instead of inflation? The National Debts doubled in one term, we have record number of home repossessions, people using food banks etc, but as long as house prices are rising the economy is 'booming' *-) I think the greatest political change I have seen in my lifetime is affordable housing was seen as good. Now unaffordable housing is seen as good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Prostitution added around £5.65bn to the economy in 2013, and illegal drugs £6.62bn :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-05-09 1:42 PM Prostitution added around £5.65bn to the economy in 2013, and illegal drugs £6.62bn :D France didn't count anything for that, so on paper Britain overtook France, resulting in the EU requiring an extra £1.7bn contribution from Britain, and a rebate for France. Nice One George, the economy is booming *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-09 1:39 PM rupert123 - 2015-05-09 11:34 AM the economy keeps booming ahead. How can you take Government Statistics seriously when they count rent increases as GDP 'Growth' instead of inflation? I do not. There are plenty of other indicators other than government ones but if you just wish to see the bad fine by me. I just rejoice that red Ed and the Scottish crankie are buried and we can now get on with proper government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-05-10 10:28 AM the Scottish crankie are buried and we can now get on with proper government. Oh dear. The first thing your proper government will do is manipulate the electoral boundaries so they get even more seats on a minority vote. As for the Scottish Crankie she has never been stronger. She has practically all the seats in Scotland, and a hold over England because Her Unelected Majesty the Queen doesn't want to lose Balmoral or Faslane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-05-10 10:28 AM I just rejoice that red Ed and the Scottish crankie are buried and we can now get on with proper government. I wouldn't call 56 new SNP members of parliament at Westminster, a sign that they were " being buried " ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-10 10:40 AM rupert123 - 2015-05-10 10:28 AM the Scottish crankie are buried and we can now get on with proper government. Oh dear. The first thing your proper government will do is manipulate the electoral boundaries so they get even more seats on a minority vote. As for the Scottish Crankie she has never been stronger. She has practically all the seats in Scotland, and a hold over England because Her Unelected Majesty the Queen doesn't want to lose Balmoral or Faslane. She hasn't got anything like the power she thought and told us she would have with her in government with Ed has she now ? In fact I think she was rather foolish in her cocky attitude before the election The sooner us English have a referendum if we still want the jocks the better , time to get rid of the burden me thinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Peter James - 2015-05-10 10:40 AM rupert123 - 2015-05-10 10:28 AM the Scottish crankie are buried and we can now get on with proper government. Oh dear. The first thing your proper government will do is manipulate the electoral boundaries so they get even more seats on a minority vote. As for the Scottish Crankie she has never been stronger. She has practically all the seats in Scotland, and a hold over England because Her Unelected Majesty the Queen doesn't want to lose Balmoral or Faslane. Electoral boundaries have been on the cards for a long time now, every since labour altered them to try and keep power, just a re-adjustment, but why not, anything to help keep the Tories in power must be good. As for the Scottish crankie she shouted to long and hard about getting rid of the Tories, that went well. As to seats in Scotland they do not much matter and think Cameron will now use it as an excuse to get rid, although doubt most Scots will really want this, who would pay all their social security payments if the English do not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soarer Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Maybe it's time for proportional representation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Yes, the SNP have independence as their ultimate goal, but then again Sinn Fein have a united Ireland as theirs. Both have seats at Westminster although one has elected not to take them, but does take the expenses. However, as stated again and again just because a group of people wish to run their own affairs, that does not mean they hate the ones who might stop them. The SNP are not an anti English Party but the English Press are certainly very anti Scots and will use any excuse, slander or downright lie, to try to convice the English of that. It is curious, or maybe just interesting that the further away you are from the border, the more the people swallow that lie. It is very interesting that there has not been a single instance of an English person up here being 'attacked' in any form just for being English, or voting 'No', and the many living here see no reason to run back south. Those idiots who painted 'white settler' slogans way back in the 70's have grown up now. You can safely come up here for holidays etc, we will not run you out of town. Just do not read the English Newspapers. It is very strange that just last year the Referendum indicated for Scotland to remain as part of a DEMOCRATIC UK, but as soon as the Scots follow that path and vote democratically, they are called every name under the sun. So, the 'rules' are you will vote for anyone you like just as long as it is a Westminster/England approved Party. It is also perfectly clear that 56 MP's will not overule a Party with 300 plus MP's, but in Committee stages where that number gives them clout, they can make their case more forcefully. Plus of course the majority is very small and it only takes a few dissenters within Cameron's ranks for votes to go the other way. If that happens will all the English MP's who vote alongside the SNP ones be also called unpatriotic or just exercising their democratic right? The current polls, if you can believe them, indicate that a desire for independence in Scotland is still around 50%, so 50% do not wish it. Nicola Sturgeon is smart enough to know that 50% is not enough and will not run any Referendum until she sees 60+% looking for it. That may take a while to occur, or may even never occur. She also has the Holyrood elections next year and what she does in the next 12 months will affect that result. However, she has indicated that if the Westminster Governments pushes through changes that are completely against the wishes of Scotland, such as leaving the EU, then she would feel entitled to ask the people for a mandate for change. Now personally I would like to see us leave the EU, but the majority do not, so that is the way we go. I also doubt that Cameron will ever get to the point himself of pushing for withdrawal, as he has to much to lose. It is also true that polticians say many things on camera that they have no intention of following. Sometimes the occasion requires certain soundbites for the 'troops' etc. As for mandates the SNP took 50% of all votes, which is way above what the Conservatives achieved, so who actually has a mandate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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