Kontiki 669 (Fiat 3.0 160) non starter (sort of).

[ken the kontiki]

Our 2008 16k miles 160 Kontiki has started impeccably hot or cold for the past 18 months. Arrived at a camp site today after a 30 mile drive, stopped the engine and then went to restart - nothing. Driver's window was down and wouldn't go up, no lights on dash - nothing. Only thing that did happen was when turning the key, the dash needles flickered and there was a fast clicking sound but not from the starter motor. Central locking on the plip wouldn't work either. I thought that if the battery was a bit flat, at least the windows would have made some effort to close.

 

Checked battery voltage with a multimeter and it was healthy at 13.9v. Earth strap looks OK (not corroded) but haven't undone the ends to see if they're clean and giving a good contact.

 

Now the odd part - in the hope that disconnecting the battery might get us running, I disconnected the +ve side on the battery, left it 20 seconds and reconnected it. Success, engine fired up no problem.3 hours later and all seems well after several on and offs. However, at the back of my mind is the fact that if it's done it once, it could/will fail to start again.

 

Also posted this on the Fiat forum but hoping you guys can shed some light on the issue.

[sshortcircuit]

It would suggest that the +be terminal did not have a good connection from all the symptoms you have described.

Give all battery terminals a good clean including the battery posts. If they are dull and grey this suggests problem.

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

The problem will definitely be the earth cable.

 

Next time this happens; and it will happen again you need to have a jump lead to hand. Open the bonnet and connect one end to the threaded stud under the bonnet that is marked earth or ground and is intended for jump starting. If in doubt; consult your handbook! The other end needs to be attached to the lifting eye at the left hand side of the engine bay as you are standing in front of the vehicle looking at the engine. If the vehicle now starts this proves that the earth wire requires replacement or better still; an additional one.

 

The reason for this is that when you switch on the ignition the ECU is happy with the voltage available but when you turn the key to start it the starter motor pulls all of the available current leaving very little for the ECU. The ECU panics, and shuts all of the electrics down in order to prevent starting and any potential damage from a spike in power if the engine did start. It will reset itself when it is happy that the voltage is ok again. The ECU draws its power from the fuse box which is nearby but the earth that it uses is the one that provides for the starter and is between the nearside outrigger of the chassis and the gearbox. If it is more than about 20% degraded; it's going to throw a wobbly. If you are somewhere just short of the limit, it will be intermittent.

 

If in the unlikely event that the jump lead method did not solve the problem it is likely that your starter motor is drawing too much current and is faulty; causing the same effects as a bad earth as far as the ECU is concerned.

 

Please also be aware that in the event of repeated faults and several shut-downs the large grey CAL 5 fuse that is part of the positive terminal on the battery may blow. These are not cheap and are only available from Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen or perhaps the AA.

 

Nick

[ken the kontiki]

Thanks Nick, brilliant info, you're our saviour.

 

I've been meaning to change the earth strap for some time now but never got round to it as the old one looked ok and It's sod's law that we're one week into a three week stint away. Have many tools with me but unfortunately, no jump leads - damn.

 

A bit of history for you - very occasionally in the past, the engine hasn't started when the ignition key is turned. Turn key and nothing. Turn key back to "O" position and then back on and the engine fires up. Would this also maybe indicate that the problem we had today has been manifesting itself for a while?

 

Re. a second earth strap - do I just double up on the existing short one or fit another one somewhere else?

 

Sorry, one more question - have you seen a suitable earth strap on Ebay as I'm not sure of the length. I'm guessing that a proper "round" battery cable (welding cable type) is better than the flat Fiat OEM type?

 

Many thanks

 

Paul :-)

[ken the kontiki]

Well.............

 

After fitting a new earth cable and a second one to be on the safe side, we've had no trouble starting a hot or cold engine several times. Until today that is

 

After a 2 hour drive, pulled in for fuel and the bloody thing wouldn't start again. Again, disconnected the cables on the +ve terminal, reconnected and the engine fired up.

 

We have a load monitor fitted to the starter battery in question and this recorded an all time low voltage of 3.5v. So now we're thinking either duff battery (think it's the original at c.7 years old) or maybe a faulty starter motor drawing too much current on cranking.

 

Any more thoughts guys?

 

[aandncaravan]

Could be either, but as your battery is 7 years old and close to replacement anyway I would try this first.

A new, quality battery will cope much better with higher than normal loads, if they are present, so even if the Starter Motor is the issue it will help both.

 

Another argument in favour of changing the battery, is that if the Starter Motor is drawing high current the battery will have suffered, be older than it's years. It requires changing so it does not introduce an element into the equation if you have to replace the Starter.

 

May I suggest you fit only a quality battery, like a Bosch S5 has this will have even higher energy reserves than the original so cope better still with a high load starter fault?

 

While the battery is out remove, clean and replace the + Lead to the Starter.

 

 

[ken the kontiki]

Thanks for the pointers on the battery and especially the starter motor lead as that's something I'd not thought of. Cheers ;-)