Buying RHD in Europe

[Seagulls]

We were planning on a left hooker given most of our touring will be in Europe but for a variety of reasons we now want RHD.

 

But I've become seduced by lower prices and I'm wondering if a dealer in Europe will be able to sell me a new RHD? I can't see why not, even if I need to initially register at an address in Europe

 

Has anyone tried it? Is there any obvious reason why I shouldn't do it ... (warranty, servicing?)

 

Cheers!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Depends on what your after but generally its a choice between bob hope and no hope!:-)

[Seagulls]

JudgeMental - 2015-06-11 4:04 PM

 

Depends on what your after but generally its a choice between bob hope and no hope!:-)

 

So I guess it doesn't matter what I'm after?

 

Had narrowed down to Adria Twin or Rapido V55

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The problem with seeking to buy a new RHD motorhome in a country with ‘right hand traffic’ (eg. Continental Europe) is not with the motorhome manufacturer as such but with the motorhome dealerships. Assuming that a motorhome manufacturer builds RHD vehicles, there’s nothing to prevent those vehicles being sold in, say, France or Germany rather than in the UK. However, if a buyer orders a RHD motorhome from, say, a French dealership and the deal falls through, it may be extremely difficult for the French dealer to then offload the vehicle in France. So there may well be a reluctance on the part of Continental dealerships to accept an order for a RHD model.

 

Having said that, it has certainly been possible in the past to order abroad full-UK-specification RHD Hymer models. If I remember correctly, there was a (relatively small) premium over the LHD equivalent and a significant increase in the delivery lead-time. When I ordered a LHD Hobby motorhome from a German dealer in 2005, he told me that he could obtain RHD Hobby vehicles, but I don’t recall anyone saying they had bought a RHD Adria or Rapido motorhome abroad.

 

If you did manage to buy RHD abroad, you could find that UK motorhome agents for the make would be ‘unenthusiastic’ about carrying out warranty work on a RHD ’self import’, but that would be no different to their potential attitude to a LHD ‘self import’. I would not expect there to be problems with servicing, and it should be easier to resell a RHD motorhome in the UK than its LHD equivalent and the former should command a superior secondhand value.

 

Suggest you try asking German or Belgian Adria/Rapido dealerships whether they can provide RHD models.

 

[hallii]

I used to have a LHD and as the vast majority of our trips are abroad it was a real pleasure to drive.

 

I will be looking for LHD again when (if) I swop. My present van is RHD.

 

So you might reconsider, after all the vast majority of M/H in the EU are LHD, buying and selling abroad will be much easier with a LHD. I don't think it's a major problem here either, there are people (like me) who prefer LHD, as regards a lower re sale value, well, it would have been cheaper to buy in the first place so it's swings and roundabouts.

 

H

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

You haven't indicated why you've now decided to go for RHD in lieu of LHD, but if you want to buy on the continent you are, IMO, making life unnecessarily difficult for yourselves. You are just going against the grain.

 

As stated above, it has been possible (and I assume still is) to do this with Hymer vehicles via one or two dealerships. Particularly, I think, one in Belgium and one in Germany. I believe this is largely an overhang from the days when British troops were stationed in Germany, and it was popular to buy cheaper, relatively high value, vehicles before returning to UK.

 

Obtaining LHD abroad is relatively straightforward. You will be able to get third party only insurance on a temporary registration plate in Germany. This insurance is valid throughout the EU for a stated period of time, any can be extended at additional premium (although this flexibility seems to vary with the dealer). AFAIK, this insurance cannot be obtained in any other country within reasonable distance from Channel/North Sea ports.

 

You may be asked to pay VAT on the van by the dealer and re-claim it in UK, or he may sell ex VAT. You will, however, have to pay UK VAT on any van that is (from memory) under six months old and has under 6,000 miles on its clock. Over that age/mileage it will be classed as used, and the VAT charged by the dealer will not be re-claimable.

 

Pre-registration insurance based on the VIN is obtainable from a few UK sources, but does not cover use outside the UK until the vehicle has been registered in UK. That is to say, it will not cover your journey from the dealer to the UK port of entry. Most of the firms offering this option require the registration process to be completed within a fixed time, and that the vehicle can only be driven from the port of entry to your home, or to DVSA or VOSA inspection facilities, or to a garage for any modifications required to comply with UK Construction and Use Regs. An alternative, if you buy near a port, is to get the dealer to deliver the van to the port. Some dealers may be able/willing to put the vehicle on their equivalent of "trade plates" for you to drive to the port.

 

If the insurance complications seem off-putting, consider using an agent to import the van on your behalf. I have done this twice via Bundesvan, with great success. You will inevitably forego some of the potential saving, as you are in effect paying someone else to do the work of buying, importing, harmonising, and registering the vehicle, but substantial savings are still likely to be achieved. For a new van, this loss of saving is to some extent offset by savings in travel and accommodation costs you would incur in visiting the dealer to place your order, and again to collect the van when available (however, if buying used, you'd probably want to see what is on offer for yourself). A further advantage is that you pay in Sterling, and, at least with Bundesvan, can decide when, between placing your order and the van being collected from the dealer, you wish to fix the exchange rate. A further bonus is that the van will be delivered to your home.

 

A further alternative is to contact Edge Hill Motorhomes, in Mansfield, near Nottingham. They buy-in LHD vans for stock, usually low mileage used vans, but can obtain new vans to order. They mainly deal in German vans, mostly Hymer, but might be able to source Adria, and have one Rapido A class on their website at present.

 

However, in all cases the greatest cash savings will inevitably go with the more expensive vans, so you'll need to do your sums carefully to be sure of the potential savings before committing yourselves to any course of action. Also, remember that although Sterling is presently high relative to the Euro, this can change quire rapidly and, if the rate goes the wrong way and you are committed to buy at a future date from a continental dealer, the negative currency risk will be yours.

 

As stated above, the LHD van will have a lower re-sale value in UK than its equivalent with RHD. However, as you will have bought for less, unless you buy something unusual, unpopular, or a make that is not represented in UK, you should not end up any more out of pocket than if you had bought RHD in UK. The advantage is not in the trade in values, it is in the fact that you either get more van for your money, or you keep the saving to spend on other things - or a bit of both. Hope this helps.

[Seagulls]

Thanks for the 3 replies above, all very helpful.

 

The primary reason for not wanting a LHD is my perception not only of resale value but potential difficulty in actually selling it on. Our plan is for 5 years of fairly frequent touring before selling off and then moving permanently to the Canaries. The RHD just looks a much easier proposition and given prices in Europe appear to be about 30% cheaper (for LHD) than the same van in UK it seemed like a no brainer, particularly if I can get a good deal in one of the many dealers nearby the channel ports.

 

I anticipate the warranty servicing issues but think that will be little more than an irritation ... mate of mine with Dethleffs been travelling the last year and no problem just showing up in 2 dealerships (Portugal and France) and getting work done.

 

I will drop a few notes to Adria/Rapido dealers in France/Belgium for best price and compare to here ... I'd happily put down a decent deposit to reassure them of my intentions

 

Obviously I'm new to this so sanity checking has been helpful

 

 

[lennyhb]

As far as I'm aware Hymer are the only manufacturer that will supply RHD abroad, our last Hymer was RHD brought in Belgium, current one is LHD.

Hymer charge €1500 extra for RHD (they come with UK spec) but the delivery time goes way out as they only build a couple batches of RHD a year.

Your reason for RHD does not make sense to me, with a RHD you are stuck with selling or trading it in the Uk, with LHD you can sell or trade it anywhere in Europe, and trade in prices are much better in Europe the dealers work on much lower margins.

[Seagulls]

lennyhb - 2015-06-13 2:23 PM

 

As far as I'm aware Hymer are the only manufacturer that will supply RHD abroad, our last Hymer was RHD brought in Belgium, current one is LHD.

Hymer charge €1500 extra for RHD (they come with UK spec) but the delivery time goes way out as they only build a couple batches of RHD a year.

Your reason for RHD does not make sense to me, with a RHD you are stuck with selling or trading it in the Uk, with LHD you can sell or trade it anywhere in Europe, and trade in prices are much better in Europe the dealers work on much lower margins.

 

OK I assumed as Adria and Rapido supplied to UK then they could ship RHD anywhere

 

Not at all familiar with selling to dealers in Europe. Assumed like cars here in UK, trying to sell to dealer with no trade in is disaster, for reasons mentioned in my last post we won't be trading in

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed. Also bear in mind that you are shopping in a huge market, as almost every motorhome converter and his dog now has at least one PVC on offer. Most have layouts similar to those you are looking at.

 

Having chosen a PVC as your van, I suspect (meaning I'm not certain) that getting RHD outside UK will be more, rather than less, problematic than with a coachbuilt. As Lenny says, they tend to produce their RHD vans in batches to dealer order, possibly only one batch per year, so delivery time, if available, is liable to be extended as the vehicle will become a special order.

 

Especially with PVC's, I think they are best bought from stock, where your chances of getting a good discount are much greater. This would benefit your desire to save as much as possible. Its value in 5 years time, whether RHD or LHD will be considerably diminished, and these are not the most expensive of vans in the first place (though costly enough!). Have you found this website: http://tinyurl.com/by28kre - which shows about 1,400 PVC's currently in stock at various dealers. Have a look at what is available there and then have a look at one or two Belgian dealer's websites, and I would suggest, Calais Caravanes who, as above, do the Possl range (similer to Globecar, same factory, but cosmetically different).

 

You'll have to get the speedo changed to read MPH, the headlights changed to left dipping (which means new lamps), and possibly the rear fog changed to UK offside if not already present. Having bought below the UK price, you will also sell for less, but the overall cost of ownership over your 5 years should still be to your advantage. How quickly any van will sell will depend on the state of the economy, whether a buyer wants what you have, and when you decide to sell - spring is the usual favourite, as it is when most people start thinking about holidays. The choice is very personal, so you'll need to allow time and advertise well whenever you do this. It may go almost immediately, or it may stick for several months.

[Guest JudgeMental]

You assume wrong... UK dealers are very protective of their extortionate margins and manufacturers generally dont want to loose their custom... *-)

 

If you want a Possl/Globecar I can help. PM me your details. I go along with Brian, LHD makes far more sense! 8-)

[Seagulls]

Brian Kirby - 2015-06-13 6:54 PM

 

Agreed. Also bear in mind that you are shopping in a huge market, as almost every motorhome converter and his dog now has at least one PVC on offer. Most have layouts similar to those you are looking at.

 

Having chosen a PVC as your van, I suspect (meaning I'm not certain) that getting RHD outside UK will be more, rather than less, problematic than with a coachbuilt. As Lenny says, they tend to produce their RHD vans in batches to dealer order, possibly only one batch per year, so delivery time, if available, is liable to be extended as the vehicle will become a special order.

 

Especially with PVC's, I think they are best bought from stock, where your chances of getting a good discount are much greater. This would benefit your desire to save as much as possible. Its value in 5 years time, whether RHD or LHD will be considerably diminished, and these are not the most expensive of vans in the first place (though costly enough!). Have you found this website: http://tinyurl.com/by28kre - which shows about 1,400 PVC's currently in stock at various dealers. Have a look at what is available there and then have a look at one or two Belgian dealer's websites, and I would suggest, Calais Caravanes who, as above, do the Possl range (similer to Globecar, same factory, but cosmetically different).

 

You'll have to get the speedo changed to read MPH, the headlights changed to left dipping (which means new lamps), and possibly the rear fog changed to UK offside if not already present. Having bought below the UK price, you will also sell for less, but the overall cost of ownership over your 5 years should still be to your advantage. How quickly any van will sell will depend on the state of the economy, whether a buyer wants what you have, and when you decide to sell - spring is the usual favourite, as it is when most people start thinking about holidays. The choice is very personal, so you'll need to allow time and advertise well whenever you do this. It may go almost immediately, or it may stick for several months.

 

Thanks and yes that's helpful.

 

I have been tracking that website for the past year, and likely would have acted by now only I keep pushing back the final retirement date :-S ... will definitely be by year end and was thinking about a late Autumn / Winter purchase to try to get best price

 

Led times aren't too important .. essentially our first major trip will be April next year

 

We were in Ostend a couple of weeks ago and visited Urbano but they are Roller Team and no RHD production (don't think so anyway) and have also seen Possl, but same thing or uber expensive Globecar

 

Agree most layouts are remarkably similar so in some respects I am agnostic on manufacturer ... I picked Adria and Rapido as I know they supply RHD

 

I also need to understand best discounts I might get on a new (or nearly new) RHD but my (limited) experience to date is not very much except an increase in spec, which is obviously useful

[Guest JudgeMental]

Possl are the parent brand of Globecar, essentially identical. Very popular in Europe and catching on here. because they are well put together, use good quality components, and great value if you import them... A different league then the likes of Adria..I know as have had both. but you need to do the homework and make your own minds up....

 

LHD cost less so you can afford to sell it for less. and when they come up for sale they look so cheap compared to te overpriced RHD UK sourced ones you will get interest. Yes market is smaller for LHD but as Lenny said you still have the option of selling back to German dealer at a fair price unlike here!

 

you dont seem to be absorbing the previous info. as if you think you can order a RHD and pick it up a few moths later its not going to happen. lead time can be very long. plus discount will be nothing like what you can get from an in stock LHD van? with LHD its so much easier as well as cheaper

[Seagulls]

JudgeMental - 2015-06-14 10:30 AM

 

Possl are the parent brand of Globecar, essentially identical. Very popular in Europe and catching on here. because they are well put together, use good quality components, and great value if you import them... A different league then the likes of Adria..I know as have had both. but you need to do the homework and make your own minds up....

 

LHD cost less so you can afford to sell it for less. and when they come up for sale they look so cheap compared to te overpriced RHD UK sourced ones you will get interest. Yes market is smaller for LHD but as Lenny said you still have the option of selling back to German dealer at a fair price unlike here!

 

you dont seem to be absorbing the previous info. as if you think you can order a RHD and pick it up a few moths later its not going to happen. lead time can be very long. plus discount will be nothing like what you can get from an in stock LHD van? with LHD its so much easier as well as cheaper

 

I thought I was absorbing it ... indeed I said I am in no hurry as first trip isn't planned till next April so not in any hurry at all

 

Familiar with Possl and it was my preferred for LHD .. also have seen pretty well every major brand new PVC and (for a novice) had difficulty making too many distinctions ... the big thing for me will be how it "wears" over the 5 years we have it and in that respect I assumed Possl would be as good as I could get .. but then that conflicts with my RHD idea (no more than that, just trying to explore every angle)

 

Yes I am new to it hence doing my homework. Selling a LHD back to a dealer in Germany was, I imagined, going to cost, potentially more than the benefit of trying to buy RHD from a European dealer ... plus they will need to be converting back the lights, speedo etc

 

So it's work in progress, hence my asking the fundamental questions here

[Brian Kirby]

I think, if I may say, you're trying too hard! :-D

 

None of these vehicles (whether coachbuit, PVC, or A class) are cheap, and they all suffer depreciation. Back in 2010, who would have foreseen that the relativities between £ and € would be as they are today. If someone sneezes somewhere around the world, including here, that relativity could change radically in a matter of days - leave alone 5 years. It is impossible to foresee the market into which you will then be selling, other than that it is extremely unlikely to look the way it looks today.

 

Choose what you want - or what you think will best suit you - and then see if you can hire one somewhere (whether LHD or RHD) and try it out. You will gain a much better idea of whether your assumptions are correct before you shell out to buy. Then, if you're wrong, it will only have cost you the hire charge to find out. The differences are small, but comfort of seats, height and shape of bed, size of washroom, number of hob burners, size of gas cylinder locker (meaning size and number of cylinders you can carry), all make a difference to how well the vehicle will suit your intended pattern of use.

 

Now is when stocks are relatively high, and good deals are available with a good selection of vans as well. Later in the year you may get a better price, but will be picking from what is left, possibly indicating what others have rejected for whatever reason.

 

Also, don't underestimate the time you may need to get the van into suitable shape for long term use, which is what you seem to be contemplating. Most have quite small gas lockers, so refillable cylinders will probably make sense for you. Some have underslung gas tanks which may be an added advantage.

 

IMO, those who get the van one week, and sally off abroad the next week, take avoidable risks. Most of the time all is OK, but there is quite a bit of bought in kit on these vehicles, in the form of heaters, fridges, cookers, toilets, water pumps, battery chargers etc that can, and do, develop faults when first used. Usually these faults will be remedied promptly by the UK end of their manufacturers, but it will still take some time to get any such problems sorted out. A good shake-down tour in UK, with time to sort problems before you sail off into the blue-yonder is, IMO, a sound strategy. Possibly visiting a Warner's show, when it will be off EHU for 2/3 days, with a day or so at a campsite on EHU on the way there or back, will allow you to see that it all works when "used in anger".

 

So, while I woldn't rush, I wouldn't be too laid back either.

 

The speedo problem should be fairly straightforward, as there should be overlays available for the X290 by the time you buy. These are excellent products, indistinguishable from the factory originals, that merely require the original card to be removed from the speedo face and the new inserted. The new card carries the required MPH plus KPH markings, just as with the standard UK pattern speedo. So, if you were to sell abroad, all you'd have to do is replace the original card.

 

I suspect, but don't know, that both X290 rear fog lights will be wired and lamped so no change will actually be required for either market.

 

You will have to buy replacement headlamps for registration in UK, so will still have the original LHD ones. I'd then fit those before leaving, so you are fully right-hand traffic compliant, and only re-fit the RHD lamps if liable to travel extensively in UK, or for MoT.

[Craig J]

With Eddie's help I am also looking into purchasing a RHD Globecar on the continent. So far it seems that they schedule their builds by the month and once one month is full, they start allocating for the next. If I were to order now, then I am likely to receive the van Oct/Nov. This gives you an idea of lead-time even if you don't need the van until next year.

 

Interestingly, I was quoted around 1800EU for the RHD version. For reference the lights, speedo and fog conversion would be around 800EU. I intend to use the van mostly in the UK, so I thought the 1000EU difference wasn't too bad.

[Guest adhple]

Buy it from Germany and insure and tax and you can drive it away, but you CANNOT do that if you buy in France, Belgium they may deliver it to a ferry port for you but that’s not much help

[Brian Kirby]

adhple - 2015-07-01 2:27 PM

 

Buy it from Germany and insure and tax and you can drive it away, but you CANNOT do that if you buy in France, Belgium they may deliver it to a ferry port for you but that’s not much help

But it now seems you may be able to import fully insured from anywhere in Europe, see this string: http://tinyurl.com/ozhs2mz